ONE DIED FOR ALL

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Doug

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[2Corinthians 5:14 KJV] 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Many say that Abraham and all those in the old testament looked forward to the cross.

This is not the case.

The prophets in the old testament foretold Christ's suffering, death and resurrection, but NOT all that it accomplished.

What the cross accomplished was a secret not revealed until revealed through Paul.

Paul alone revealed that Christ died for ALL.
 

JRM

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What the cross accomplished was a secret not revealed until revealed through Paul.

Paul alone revealed that Christ died for ALL.
If you believe that Christ died for all, please show book, chapter, and verse.

Besides, if Christ died for All then logically, there will no one can be put to hell. But we know that hell will heavily be populated!!
 
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Wick Stick

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Many say that Abraham and all those in the old testament looked forward to the cross.

This is not the case.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "you got some splaining to do!"
 
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Jack

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[2Corinthians 5:14 KJV] 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Many say that Abraham and all those in the old testament looked forward to the cross.

This is not the case.

The prophets in the old testament foretold Christ's suffering, death and resurrection, but NOT all that it accomplished.

What the cross accomplished was a secret not revealed until revealed through Paul.

Paul alone revealed that Christ died for ALL.
HIGHLY conditional upon believing and serving God of the Bible!

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to Life and FEW there be who find it.

Billions of Humans will burn in Hell FOREVER! Jesus said so.
 

Doug

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If you believe that Christ died for all, please show book, chapter, and verse.

Besides, if Christ died for All then logically, there will no one can be put to hell. But we know that hell will heavily be populated!!
[2Co 5:19-20 KJV] 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

God reconciled the world thru the death and resurrection of Christ, but it has to be received.
 

Doug

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John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

In the words of Ricky Ricardo... "you got some splaining to do!"

[Gen 22:18 KJV] 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[Gal 3:16 KJV] 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The cross is not in view in John 8:56
Abraham rejoiced that there would be a redeemer, the lamb....................[Gen 22:8 KJV] 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

Doug

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HIGHLY conditional upon believing and serving God of the Bible!

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to Life and FEW there be who find it.

Billions of Humans will burn in Hell FOREVER! Jesus said so.
The gospel has to be believed

[1Co 15:1, 3-4 KJV] 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; ... 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
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Doug

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You just contradicted yourself.
We have a completed Bible but not so during the time of John 8:56 nor Genesis 22:8. Abraham was told there would be a lamb, but that Jesus would come and die on the cross to redeem Israel's transgressions was not yet revealed.
 

Wick Stick

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We have a completed Bible but not so during the time of John 8:56 nor Genesis 22:8. Abraham was told there would be a lamb, but that Jesus would come and die on the cross to redeem Israel's transgressions was not yet revealed.
That doesn't seem like a meaningful differentiation. Abraham asked for a son, and he got... not only a natural son in Isaac, but THE Son in Christ, and the nations for his posterity. He believed and it was credited to him for righteousness.

What is the point you've set out to make? It's lost on me. Are you trying to tell me that Abe didn't understand God when He promised to make him a father of nations?
 

Doug

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That doesn't seem like a meaningful differentiation. Abraham asked for a son, and he got... not only a natural son in Isaac, but THE Son in Christ, and the nations for his posterity. He believed and it was credited to him for righteousness.

What is the point you've set out to make? It's lost on me. Are you trying to tell me that Abe didn't understand God when He promised to make him a father of nations?
Go back to post #3
I said it is not a factual thing to say Abraham or any of the old testament saints were looking forward to the cross
I am only saying that the crucifixion and his death and resurrection was foretold in the old testament but NOT what would be accomplished
Abraham did not even know all the OT prophets foretold
As to John 8:56............I studied this passage more and here is what I think......the Jews were saying Abrahm was dead and Jesus said he was alive and rejoiced because he can see him
 

LoveYeshua

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[2Corinthians 5:14 KJV] 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

Many say that Abraham and all those in the old testament looked forward to the cross.

This is not the case.

The prophets in the old testament foretold Christ's suffering, death and resurrection, but NOT all that it accomplished.

What the cross accomplished was a secret not revealed until revealed through Paul.

Paul alone revealed that Christ died for ALL.

The So-Called Secret of Paul and the Eternal Revelation of God​

Paul often speaks of a “mystery” hidden from the beginning of the world, now revealed in his gospel. He writes: “according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest” (Romans 16:25–26). Again, “by revelation He made known to me the mystery… that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ” (Ephesians 3:3–6).

You claim that what happened at the cross was unknown to all before Paul, that Abraham and the faithful of old did not look forward to the cross, and that Paul alone revealed that Christ died for all. But this does not agree with the witness of Scripture.

From the beginning, God’s plan was revealed. To Abraham He said: “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed” (Genesis 22:18). The prophet Isaiah declared openly: “He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:5). Here the cross and its accomplishment are plainly spoken: forgiveness, peace, and healing for all. Isaiah also declared: “I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth” (Isaiah 49:6).

Jesus Himself confirmed these things long before Paul. He said: “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself” (John 12:32). This is the cross, and it is for all. He also declared: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). And again: “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). Finally, after His resurrection He commanded: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations” (Matthew 28:19).

Therefore, the truth that Christ died for all and that the nations would share in salvation was never a hidden mystery. It was announced in the covenant with Abraham, foretold by the prophets, fulfilled in Christ, and declared by Jesus Himself. Paul’s words do not reveal a secret unknown before, but rather echo what God had already made known through His Word. The plan of God was not concealed but revealed from the beginning, that in Christ salvation would reach to all nations and that all who believe and obey Him may have life.
 
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Doug

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The So-Called Secret of Paul and the Eternal Revelation of God​

Paul often speaks of a “mystery” hidden from the beginning of the world, now revealed in his gospel. He writes: “according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest” (Romans 16:25–26). Again, “by revelation He made known to me the mystery… that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ” (Ephesians 3:3–6).

You claim that what happened at the cross was unknown to all before Paul, that Abraham and the faithful of old did not look forward to the cross, and that Paul alone revealed that Christ died for all. But this does not agree with the witness of Scripture.

From the beginning, God’s plan was revealed. To Abraham He said: “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed” (Genesis 22:18). The prophet Isaiah declared openly: “He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:5). Here the cross and its accomplishment are plainly spoken: forgiveness, peace, and healing for all. Isaiah also declared: “I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth” (Isaiah 49:6).

Jesus Himself confirmed these things long before Paul. He said: “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself” (John 12:32). This is the cross, and it is for all. He also declared: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). And again: “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). Finally, after His resurrection He commanded: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations” (Matthew 28:19).

Therefore, the truth that Christ died for all and that the nations would share in salvation was never a hidden mystery. It was announced in the covenant with Abraham, foretold by the prophets, fulfilled in Christ, and declared by Jesus Himself. Paul’s words do not reveal a secret unknown before, but rather echo what God had already made known through His Word. The plan of God was not concealed but revealed from the beginning, that in Christ salvation would reach to all nations and that all who believe and obey Him may have life.
[Isa 53:4 KJV] 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

We know about the cross but from this verse the OT saints couldnt because its not specific

[Isa 53:6 KJV] 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

The iniquity of the sheep which is Israel was laid on him but how?

[Isa 53:8 KJV] 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Stricken how?

[Isa 53:10 KJV] 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Make his soul an offering how?

[Isa 53:11-12 KJV] 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Justify many how?

Bare sin of many how?

You couldnt know about the cross from the old testament from Isiah.......there were also OT verses that spoke of his crucifixion but were veiled
We can know it because we have the whole Bible
 

Doug

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Therefore, the truth that Christ died for all and that the nations would share in salvation was never a hidden mystery.
Show me from the OT where it is said that Christ died for all please
 

LoveYeshua

Eagle
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Show me from the OT where it is said that Christ died for all please
My brother Doug, please read through the end I provide plenty of verses as you asked, it took me some time to put this together;

From the beginning, God made it known that sin requires the death of another, and that He Himself would provide the Redeemer. When Adam and Eve sinned, “for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them”(Genesis 3:21). This showed that an innocent life had to die to cover their shame. Later, when Abraham was tested, he said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering” (Genesis 22:8), and the Lord provided a ram in Isaac’s place. This prophecy looked forward to the true Lamb of God.

When Israel was delivered from Egypt, the Lord commanded the blood of the lamb to be placed on their doorposts, saying, “When I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you” (Exodus 12:13). The lamb had to be “without blemish, a male of the first year” (Exodus 12:5), pointing to the sinless Christ.

Through Moses, God declared, “The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls” (Leviticus 17:11). Every sacrifice in the law proclaimed that forgiveness required the death of a substitute. On the Day of Atonement, the priest laid Israel’s sins upon the scapegoat, and “the goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land” (Leviticus 16:22). These things pointed directly to Christ, who bore our sins away.

The psalmists also prophesied of the Messiah’s suffering and the forgiveness He would bring. David wrote, “They pierced My hands and My feet” (Psalm 22:16), and, “They divide My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots”(Psalm 22:18). He also spoke of God’s mercy that would come through Him: “Bless the LORD… Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases, Who redeems your life from destruction” (Psalm 103:2–4). Again, “If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You” (Psalm 130:3–4). These mercies were not without cost—they were given in view of the Messiah’s sacrifice.

Isaiah gave the most direct prophecy: “Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4–5). He adds, “All we like sheep have gone astray… and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6). The Messiah is described as “led as a lamb to the slaughter” (Isaiah 53:7), and “for the transgressions of My people He was stricken” (Isaiah 53:8).

The prophets confirmed this truth again and again. Daniel said, “After the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself” (Daniel 9:26). Zechariah wrote, “Then they will look on Me whom they pierced” (Zechariah 12:10), and again, “Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered” (Zechariah 13:7). Even Hosea spoke of the third day resurrection: “After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His sight” (Hosea 6:2).

Job bore witness to this Redeemer long before the law, saying, “I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth” (Job 19:25). And David also spoke of His resurrection: “For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption” (Psalm 16:10).

Thus the Old Testament, from the Torah, to the Psalms, to the Prophets, already revealed the full plan: the Messiah would come as the spotless Lamb, die for the sins of the people, be pierced, cut off, bear iniquities, yet rise again. Nothing of this was hidden; it was declared in the Scriptures centuries before Christ came. To say that the cross and its meaning were a secret is to deny the plain testimony of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. The Old Testament even foretold the manner of Christ’s death, showing that He would be treated as cursed and physically pierced. Deuteronomy 21:22–23 states that anyone “hanged on a tree” is considered accursed of God, which Jesus bore on the cross for our sins. Psalm 22:16–18 describes the piercing of His hands and feet and the dividing of His garments, while Zechariah 12:10 speaks of God’s people looking on “Me whom they pierced.” Even Psalm 69:21 mentions that He would be given vinegar to drink, all details fulfilled in the crucifixion. Together, these passages show that the Old Testament not only predicted the Messiah’s death but also the specific way He would suffer, confirming that nothing about His sacrificial death was hidden or unknown.

The true mystery was not that Christ would die, but that men would not believe it though it was written everywhere. As the Lord Himself said, “These are the words which I spoke to you… that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me (Luke 24:44).

Jesus Himself tells us many prophecies were written about Him, please believe this Brother.

Blessings
 
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Doug

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From the beginning, God made it known that sin requires the death of another, and that He Himself would provide the Redeemer. When Adam and Eve sinned, “for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them”(Genesis 3:21). This showed that an innocent life had to die to cover their shame. Later, when Abraham was tested, he said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering” (Genesis 22:8), and the Lord provided a ram in Isaac’s place. This prophecy looked forward to the true Lamb of God.
I am reading your post thoroughly and appreciate your effort and time

I agree that we can look back and see that this is the start of the gospel of God in which is revealed our Saviour

However, if you set aside what we now can know and just look at it from the standpoint of those who read this before Christ they could not know that Christ died for all
 

Doug

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When Israel was delivered from Egypt, the Lord commanded the blood of the lamb to be placed on their doorposts, saying, “When I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you” (Exodus 12:13). The lamb had to be “without blemish, a male of the first year” (Exodus 12:5), pointing to the sinless Christ.
Once again nothing speaks of anything specific about the lamb dying for the sins of all. In fact, the blood only delivered Israel.
 

Doug

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Through Moses, God declared, “The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls” (Leviticus 17:11). Every sacrifice in the law proclaimed that forgiveness required the death of a substitute. On the Day of Atonement, the priest laid Israel’s sins upon the scapegoat, and “the goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land” (Leviticus 16:22). These things pointed directly to Christ, who bore our sins away.
The blood atonement was only for Israel not for all
 

Doug

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The psalmists also prophesied of the Messiah’s suffering and the forgiveness He would bring. David wrote, “They pierced My hands and My feet” (Psalm 22:16), and, “They divide My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots”(Psalm 22:18). He also spoke of God’s mercy that would come through Him: “Bless the LORD… Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases, Who redeems your life from destruction” (Psalm 103:2–4). Again, “If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with You” (Psalm 130:3–4). These mercies were not without cost—they were given in view of the Messiah’s sacrifice.
It cant be known from Psalm 22 that what was written is about Christ's crucifixion. We can know it from our vantage point.

[Psa 103:3 KJV] 3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Whose sins are forgiven? it doesnt say Christ died for all. It is Israels iniquities.
 

Doug

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Isaiah gave the most direct prophecy: “Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4–5). He adds, “All we like sheep have gone astray… and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6). The Messiah is described as “led as a lamb to the slaughter” (Isaiah 53:7), and “for the transgressions of My people He was stricken” (Isaiah 53:8).
[Isa 53:8 KJV] 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

It was "FOR THE TRANSGRESSION OF MY PEOPLE" Israel. Not for all.