Can you renounce Christianity without renouncing Christ?

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St. SteVen

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
 

Windmill Charge

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"Can you renounce Christianity without renouncing Christ?"

What in your opinion is " Christianity "?

There are certainly activities, attitudes held by some people that can make one ashamed of identifying with them, but equally there are Christians who encourage and inspire one.
 
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JohnDB

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
Nicolaitans
Jezebel in Revelation too.
Let's not forget the gnostics.

They did not renounce Christ but Christ renounced them.
 
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JohnDB

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How about Old Testament people...
We can make a list from them too..

People who recognized God and had faith but were totally rejected by God.

Like Korah from Korah's rebellion...
Aaron's sons
Esau
Saul
Gehazi

The list is rather long. Just as long as the New Testament list....even Annanias and Sapphira.
 
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lforrest

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Many leave their churches, or denominations for various reasons, which may be legitimate. But in doing so we are effectively abandoning our brothers and sisters. And we think that if they were wise they would leave too.

When I see carnality in what is supposed to be a sacred, God seems to be particularly absent. And I am of the same opinion as Moses: "If your Presence does not go with us, do not send us up from here."

Many think it is time to flee into the perverbial wilderness. But who says you must be alone in your flight? "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
 

Jack

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"Can you renounce Christianity without renouncing Christ?"

What in your opinion is " Christianity "?


There are certainly activities, attitudes held by some people that can make one ashamed of identifying with them, but equally there are Christians who encourage and inspire one.
I was wondering the same thing.
 

David in NJ

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
JESUS is renouncing modern day 'christianity'
 
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quietthinker

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
Do the Angels disassociate from us because we are rebellious and miss the mark......every time?
Does Jesus distance himself because most of mankind doesn't get him?

The only member I am of is the human race, be they black, brown or brindle; be they buddhist, baptist or jew; be they democrat, republican or anarchist.
 
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Muna

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
Paul uses the words "not to company" with certain who call themselves brethren, that might be better in this case because he distinguishes between those of this world (without) and those who are within (who is called a brother) but who might be these things.

1Cr 5
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Paul says these were to be put away from them

1 Cr 5
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Now here (the next letter to the Corinthians) Paul also says

2 Cr

[11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 
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quietthinker

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Paul uses the words "not to company" with certain who call themselves brethren, that might be better in this case because he distinguishes between those of this world (without) and those who are within (who is called a brother) but who might be these things.

1Cr 5
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Paul says these were to be put away from them

1 Cr 5
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Now here (the next letter to the Corinthians) Paul also says

2 Cr

[11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
I have noticed the scriptures you have pulled out (highlighted)
Your paradigm (the way you see) now gives you permission to categorise, isolate and condemn.....and whether you know it or not, you categorise, isolate and condemn even yourself in the process.

How does this work? We reflect out that which we see in ourselves.....consciously or unconsciously
If you are sad the whole world appears dull.
When you are in love, guess what? all the flowers have brighter colours.
 
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Muna

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I have noticed the scriptures you have pulled out (highlighted)
Your paradigm (the way you see) now gives you permission to categorise, isolate and condemn.....and whether you know it or not, you categorise, isolate and condemn even yourself in the process.

How does this work? We reflect out that which we see in ourselves.....consciously or unconsciously
If you are sad the whole world appears dull.
When you are in love, guess what? all the flowers have brighter colours.

When Stephen asks about "renouncing" Christianity (in the sense that he might be asking)

He asks,

Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?

I shared what Paul had written in the context of Christians, or rather, when it come to one called a brother (as Paul put it)

Which has nothing to do with those of the world /without (in the same category of fornicators and such)

But rather Paul told them (who are Christians) "not to keep company" with certain of the same within that were such.

Paul made the category between them and I highlighted and posted each as he had written of each in both places

The first
1 Corint 5:9-12 (in the first book)
And contrasting it with
2 Corinth 11-18 (in the second book)

How sketchy might that appear to you? Can't tell you, I only observe how the word of God seems to irritate the heck out of you whenever its quoted by me behind you (and you speaking all your own mind all the time).

Might be a good time to examine your own self there QT
 

quietthinker

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When Stephen asks about "renouncing" Christianity (in the sense that he might be asking)

He asks,

Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?

I shared what Paul had written in the context of Christians, or rather, when it come to one called a brother (as Paul put it)

Which has nothing to do with those of the world /without (in the same category of fornicators and such)

But rather Paul told them (who are Christians) "not to keep company" with certain of the same within that were such.

Paul made the category between them and I highlighted and posted each as he had written of each in both places

The first
1 Corint 5:9-12 (in the first book)
And contrasting it with
2 Corinth 11-18 (in the second book)

How sketchy might that appear to you? Can't tell you, I only observe how the word of God seems to irritate the heck out of you whenever its quoted by me behind you (and you speaking all your own mind all the time).

Might be a good time to examine your own self there QT
We see that which dominates in our paradigm.
Subsequently Jesus says, 'Be careful how you hear'. Luke 18:18. ...and
'He who has will be given more and he who doesn't have will have taken from him even that which he thinks he has' Matthew 13:12
 
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Muna

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We see that which dominates in our paradigm.
Subsequently Jesus says, 'Be careful how you hear'. Luke 18:18. ...and
'He who has will be given more and he who doesn't have will have taken from him even that which he thinks he has' Matthew 13:12
Missed this since you edited it in 10 minutes after I replied

Amen to the word of God, you should quote it more often QT
 

Lambano

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"Can you renounce Christianity without renouncing Christ?"

What in your opinion is " Christianity "?

There are certainly activities, attitudes held by some people that can make one ashamed of identifying with them, but equally there are Christians who encourage and inspire one.
Following up on that, @St. SteVen, exactly what is being renounced?

Would you still have Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood) with those who haven't renounced the same things?
 

St. SteVen

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Following up on that, @St. SteVen, exactly what is being renounced?
That is the question. There are a myriad of possibilities.
A whole range. From holding your own beliefs to walking away completely.
Would you still have Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood) with those who haven't renounced the same things?
Birds of a feather...

[
 

Soyeong

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Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[
It depends somewhat on how terms are defined because people have different ideas about what it means to be a Christian or a member of Christianity. Christ set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), and Christianity is about following Christ's example, yet most people who identify as Christians are indicating that they are someone who is opposed to doing that. If I were to identify as a Christian without qualification, then I would communicating things to the average person that are false about what I believe, but if I were to identify as a non-Christian, then I would be communicating even more things that are false about what I believe. Christianity was non intended to be followed in isolation, for example, we can't obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves apart from our neighbor.
 

St. SteVen

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Christ set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah
I don't think that was his message at all. He treated the law as hearsay in Matthew chapter 5.

most people who identify as Christians are indicating that they are someone who is opposed to doing that. If I were to identify as a Christian without qualification, then I would communicating things to the average person that are false about what I believe, but if I were to identify as a non-Christian, then I would be communicating even more things that are false about what I believe.
One can identify as a Christ-follower. As opposed to identifying with Christianity.

Christianity was non intended to be followed in isolation, for example, we can't obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves apart from our neighbor.
You can love your neighbor without a church membership.

I agree that Christianity works better when we are part of a church fellowship. Body life.

[
 

Windmill Charge

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Following up on that, @St. SteVen, exactly what is being renounced?

Would you still have Christian brotherhood (and sisterhood) with those who haven't renounced the same things?
@st.steven.

Would you say what in your opinion is Christianity?
Without knowing what you think it is means everyone is talking about their idea of what Christianity is.
 
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St. SteVen

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@st.steven.

Would you say what in your opinion is Christianity?
Without knowing what you think it is means everyone is talking about their idea of what Christianity is.
I left it open-ended on purpose.
But basically, Christianity (however you define it) is not a replacement for Christ. IMHO

To be clear, I suppose I had in mind the institutional church.
Whether subjectively a "good" church, or a "bad" church. Neither is a replacement for Christ.

[