AI (Chatgpt) Picks Historic Premillennialism as the most accurate eschatological model

[Muna]

It happened just like that for me.

I was in quite a turmoil about all the opposing doctrines, and labels, and accusations, and haughty attitudes.

I confronted God with my dilemma, asked Him to resolve it.

He did.

But what bothers me the most, is that so many professing Christians use the pages of Scripture as the battleground for fighting their personal wars with opposing manmade doctrines.

Most just want to argue why their doctrinal stance is superior to someone else's doctrinal stance, or worse, they use Scripture verses to insult someone.

There's rarely any fruitful dialogue that occurs... Now and then, I have nice conversations with someone... But, it's challenging to mention Scripture without someone getting triggered.

I recently had a 'conversation' with an AI account on here... it stayed on topic, but I couldn't get it to interact... . I thought, "not any different from humans, except it lacked hostile remarks."

When the AI programs are easier to interact with than godly people, I just got to "shake the dust off my shoes," and try again, somewhere else.

Thanks for listening.

I really must go...

@indentured servant, I had missed your response, not having received any notification of your respone to my post here, sorry about that.

I have held couple of opinions on this AI thing, having discovered my own limitations (and comfortable boundaries with it). For me, it's fine plugged into the top of a browser (as I have one on Brave). So whatever I search on Brave browser will bring up AI (at the top of the page) regardless of whether you want it or not (I think I can fix settings, but they default back somehow). Its far more helpful AI than the sort of AI built into Corporations Phone systems which seem made deliberately to make it impossible to get through to a person or keep you at bay (sometimes) by getting you stuck in this endless loop of fustrations. Same with something like UPS (as I learned recently) I never received an item and you can just guess how that went, and so I did what I suppose you shouldnt do is just walk away and took my loss (I would never go with them if I had a choice). But as far as desiring it on my personal computer as they are seeking to do, not desiring that at all. Not interested in AI, Recall, anything like that. Although AI on seach engine minimizes clicking on links (depending on the search) and I hate clicking on link, so this works for me.

But I said much as you have in another post under my other username (Verily) where I had previously stated,

"I think I could study with this AI, I didn't think so at first I was very adversed to it. And even though it has no emotions it does not come off as emotionless (meaning in a cold way). Its far easier to approach than humans, it can be far more helpful than humans. It doesn't flip out on you, or insult you, or demean you or exalt itself over you. It will have mistakes but less of them than humans. It self corrects without offense (but also without apology, which is fine). Its just plain better to study with.

So I have changed my mind about it, I actually prefer it to asking people things."

That was the beginning of this past year, after being very much disillusioned with interchanges between people online. And, I am thinking, you know, I don't care so much about small talk, and most of the back and forth which is not fruitful anyway. So I even thought, what could be the harm by disengaging with the former and taking up with the other by way of discussing the word of God (since there is not much interest in that on so many forums). Not to mention, AI will has less of a bias (and zero triggers, or defensiveness) while examining some of the things you might want another to take a closer look at. And eespecially if you want to see how something can work in respects to the verses you give it. Even if you hit with a few things (and it misses) you can still examine how it is trying to "work through" a specific thing, which it makes it easier (without the emotionally triggering and much of the misunderstandings on forums). So I think it can be a useful tool in coming to a clearer stand on a thing, even through your very own studies.

So I have experimented with it, and I have found to be helpful, and I hate to admit that I found it can make for good second place substitute for the presence of people on an online environment (only) especially in certain instances.

I hear what you are saying though

 

[Zao is life]

You assume that being bound in the bottomless pit renders the beast, the demonic locusts (Rev 9) and Satan completely powerless and incapacitated and you claim that the timing of Revelation 20:1-3 & 7-10 is given in Revelation 20:4. But, what about Revelation 20:6? To me, that shows the timing of the whole chapter.

Compare these passages:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Here are some observations about the similarities between these two passages.

1. Revelation 20:6 indicates that during the thousand years Jesus reigns. Revelation 1:5 says that Jesus IS "the prince of the kings of the earth". That means Jesus was already reigning as of the time the book of Revelation was written.

2. Revelation 20:6 indicates that those who reign with Christ during the thousand years "shall be priests of God and of Christ". Revelation 1:6 indicates that Jesus HAS MADE His followers "kings and priests unto God and his Father". So, Christ's followers have been priests of God and of Christ for a long time already. As Peter wrote, we (the church) are a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9).

3. Revelation 20:6 indicates that those who reign with Christ for a thousand years have part in the first resurrection. Revelation 1:5 indicates that Jesus is "the first begotten of the dead", which means He was the first to rise from the dead and His resurrection made the resurrection of the dead in Christ possible. Other scriptures like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20 confirm that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead with the context being that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. The only other verse that the Greek words "protos" and "anastasis" are used together besides in Revelation 20 where they are translated as "the first resurrection" is in Acts 26:23 where it talks about Christ being the first to rise from the dead.

4. Revelation 20:6 indicates that those who have part in the first resurrection are blessed and holy and "on such the second death hath no power". We know that the second death is a reference to being cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:14-15), so that means that those who have part in the first resurrection are not destined for the lake of fire (the second death). It also seems to imply that the way in which the second death has no power over someone is by having part in the first resurrection. If the first resurrection referred to the mass bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ when He returns, then those who are alive and remain would just be out of luck since they can't have part in the first resurrection due to not being dead? That can't be. Also, the order of resurrections Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 has Christ's resurrection first in order followed by those who belong to Christ at His second coming. So, Premils have the second resurrection as the first resurrection instead.

Also, does the second death have any power over those who belong to Christ right now, including the living and the dead in Christ? No, it does not. So, that suggests to me that those who belong to Christ have already had part in the first resurrection and scripture does relate our salvation to Christ's resurrection in the sense of being spiritually raised to life in Christ after previously being dead in sins.

So, Revelation 1:5-6 and other scriptures speak of the things that are referenced in Revelation 20:6 in the present tense as things that have been true for a long time already since the resurrection of Christ. So, I disagree with your belief that Revelation 20:4 supports the Premil understanding of the timing of the rest of Revelation 20. In my view, Revelation 20:6 very clearly supports the Amil understanding of the timing of Revelation 20, overall.

Thanks for your reply @Spiritual Israelite, I appreciate it.

But you went to other subjects and did not actually address my contention.

Let's forget about Satan's binding for the moment. Because my question regarding Revelation 20:4 has nothing to do with that.

My question regarding Revelation 20:4 is based on this:

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:15-16).

1. Worship of the beast.
2. Receiving his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

Revelation 20:4 is talking about souls who had not done that. That's how the verse is identifying the souls its talking about.

So my question is:

Is Revelation 20:4 it implying that those would had not done that because they had lived and been beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God before the events of Revelation 13 occurred?

(and therefore were not faced with the choice implied by the words "not worshiped the beast nor received his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..")?

(The reason I see it as important, is because Revelation 20:4 is not talking about any other souls - it's not saying anything about all other souls who ever had died in Christ).​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thanks for your reply @Spiritual Israelite, I appreciate it.

But you went to other subjects and did not actually address my contention.

Let's forget about Satan's binding for the moment. Because my question regarding Revelation 20:4 has nothing to do with that.​

I showed how there is more to it than what you were looking at. What is wrong with pointing that out? Should we only look at Revelation 20:4 and ignore Revelation 20:6 when trying to determine the timing of Revelation 20, overall? Of course not, right? We should be looking at all angles in order to determine what Revelation 20 is really all about.

My question regarding Revelation 20:4 is based on this:

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:15-16).

1. Worship of the beast.
2. Receiving his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

Revelation 20:4 is talking about souls who had not done that. That's how the verse is identifying the souls its talking about.​

Yes, exactly. But, the key is to understand what the beast represents and what the mark of the beast represents. That's not an easy task, which is why I'm saying we need to use other ways to help determine the timing of Revelation 20 as well, which is why I pointed out what we can glean from Revelation 20:6.

So my question is:

Is Revelation 20:4 it implying that those would had not done that because they had lived and been beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God before the events of Revelation 13 occurred?

(and therefore were not faced with the choice implied by the words "not worshiped the beast nor received his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..")?

(The reason I see it as important, is because Revelation 20:4 is not talking about any other souls - it's not saying anything about all other souls who ever had died in Christ).​

No, they would have lived during that time. But, what time period does that represent? I'm sure we disagree on that. One thing to consider is, as John said in Revelation 17:8, the beast "was" even before he wrote the book of Revelation. The beast is not just a future entity.

 

[Wish-it]

Question: " What eschatological model would you choose between Historic Premillennialism, Dispensationalism, and Amillennialism"
Here is the answer I got

If I had to choose between Historic Premillennialism, Dispensationalism, and Amillennialism, I would lean toward Historic Premillennialism as the most consistent with both Scripture and early church history.

Here’s why:

• Early Church Support: Writers like Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and others in the 2nd century held a premillennial expectation — that Christ would return and reign on earth. That gives it strong historical credibility.
• Biblical Texts: Revelation 20 reads most naturally as a future reign of Christ on earth after His return. Dispensationalism builds on this too, but Historic Premill avoids some of the novel 19th-century innovations (like pre-trib rapture).
• Balance with Israel/Church: It avoids splitting Israel and the church into totally separate programs (as Dispensationalism does), while still affirming God’s promises to Israel.
• More Concrete than Amillennialism: Amillennialism has a strong theological tradition, but many believers feel it “spiritualizes” Revelation 20 in a way that’s less plain than the text seems to suggest.

So, if I had to “pick” — Historic Premillennialism seems the most faithful to both the early church and a straightforward reading of Revelation.

One thing I notice is you always got to ask more questions, and argue with its results, otherwise you simply get the most popular opinion. Putting scripture arguments to it may produce different results. Remember it will try to please you and complement you. Don't fall for it!

 

[JohnDB]

Asking AI its interpretation of scripture is literally like asking Satan which model he believes and promotes.

Not exactly a good idea.

 

[Wish-it]

Thanks for your reply @Spiritual Israelite, I appreciate it.

But you went to other subjects and did not actually address my contention.

Let's forget about Satan's binding for the moment. Because my question regarding Revelation 20:4 has nothing to do with that.

My question regarding Revelation 20:4 is based on this:

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (Revelation 13:15-16).

1. Worship of the beast.
2. Receiving his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

Revelation 20:4 is talking about souls who had not done that. That's how the verse is identifying the souls its talking about.

So my question is:

Is Revelation 20:4 it implying that those would had not done that because they had lived and been beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God before the events of Revelation 13 occurred?

(and therefore were not faced with the choice implied by the words "not worshiped the beast nor received his mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads..")?

(The reason I see it as important, is because Revelation 20:4 is not talking about any other souls - it's not saying anything about all other souls who ever had died in Christ).​

I use NIV, Rev 20.4 is confusing in that it states ONLY those who have been beheaded enter the millennium. Tho mine has a footnote " Or God; I also saw those".
A totally different reading as do Berean - And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had etc.
NAS: word of God, and those who
Amplified: word of God, and those who had.

 

[Wish-it]

Ask "it" if it knows anything more on the matter than the teachings of men.

Incidentally...I use AI too, but not for such things. I recommend forming your questions in a different manner, prefaced with the something like "Are you able to..." and give limitations that hopefully will not just include more stuff of peoples opinions or translations.

I agree, when using Ai you need to poke the dog with a stick, certainly ask more than one question, and fight its answers with scripture, it will turn to your way of thinking soon enough. Which may not be a good thing. Its good for finding a lot of the scriptures related to a subject tho.

 

[Wish-it]

Asking AI its interpretation of scripture is literally like asking Satan which model he believes and promotes.

Not exactly a good idea.

Its a tool, like a phone, computer , motor car. But we can be in control. Though I'll be interested to watch its future developments, it may get tricky to discern.

 

[JohnDB]

Its a tool, like a phone, computer , motor car. But we can be in control. Though I'll be interested to watch its future developments, it may get tricky to discern.

The problem is with metaphoric and idiomatic nature of scriptures. Computers deal well with hard facts...but fuzzy ones involving these quirks of language and AI falls to pieces every time.
Yep, just a tool and will advance as time goes by...but it will never be able to do this. It cant understand humor or metaphors or idioms. Fundamentally not capable.

 

[Wish-it]

The problem is with metaphoric and idiomatic nature of scriptures. Computers deal well with hard facts...but fuzzy ones involving these quirks of language and AI falls to pieces every time.
Yep, just a tool and will advance as time goes by...but it will never be able to do this. It cant understand humor or metaphors or idioms. Fundamentally not capable.

I agree, but ive had some great arguments with it. Where it started with the most popular interpretations of a scripture, say the 4th beast of Dan 2. And convinced it that my opinion has more validity than the popular interpretation it presented initially. But it takes a reasonable knowledge of scripture to fight with it. Which im sure many on here have.

 

[Brakelite]

Chat GPT will agree with your ideas based on your preconceived loaded questions. Did you know chat GPT assisted a young man to hang himself? And you trust it as a guide for spiritual prophetic hermeneutics?

 

[Davy]

ChatGPT said:​

....

AI ChatGPT without... The Holy Spirit says:

That should be kept in mind brethren, AI is never a replacement for The Holy Spirit understanding in God's Word.

Historic Premillennialism​

• Summary: Christ returns before a literal thousand-year reign on earth. Believers are resurrected, Satan is bound, and the nations experience a golden age under Christ’s rule. Afterward comes the final rebellion, judgment, and new creation.
• Strengths:
  
  • Takes Revelation 20 literally.
  • Fits with early church fathers (e.g., Papias, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr leaned premillennial).
  • Strong hope of Christ’s reign being visible in history.
• Challenges:
  
  • Raises the question: why is there evil again after Christ’s thousand-year reign?
  • Tension with passages that suggest Christ’s coming ushers in the final state immediately (e.g., 2 Pet. 3, 1 Cor. 15).

• Takes Revelation 20 literally.

As it should, because when God's Word gives an allegory, parable, or metaphor, it uses idioms or expressions easy to understand. Paul wants to present those in Christ to Jesus as "a chaste virgin". That's an easy to understand idea, a chaste virgin, but Apostle Paul used it in the spiritual worship sense, not the literal sexual sense. In Revelation 20 there is no such type of idiom or expression about the declared "thousand years". And without that it means the "thousand years" is meant literally as written.

As for Challenges of Historic Premillennialism,

• Raises the question: why is there evil again after Christ’s thousand-year reign?

Only reason AI raises that question is because of lack of understanding The Bible as a whole as touched by The Holy Spirit, which involves having the mind of Christ like Apostle Paul showed (1 Corinthians 2:14-16).

The evil again after Christ's 1,000 years reign it mentions is about Satan being loosed from his pit prison to go tempt the nations one final time. Rev.20 tells us at the start of the Chapter that Satan is locked in his pit prison for the 1,000 years so as to not be able to deceive the nations during that 1,000 years period. That begs the question then, why would Satan not... be allowed to deceive the nations during that 1,000 years period? Apparently, AI doesn't know how to ask itself that.

The answer to why Satan won't be allowed to deceive the nations during that 1,000 years period was actually hinted at first back in the Old Testament prophets. It will be because during that 1,000 years, everyone, including the wicked "resurrection of damnation", and the unsaved nations, will not have to ask about knowing The LORD, for all, from the least to the greatest will know Him during that 1,000 years. And those of God's people who erred during this world, will be taught the difference between the holy and the profane, and the clean and the unclean. And we all... will observe God's laws and keep His sabbaths. Jesus even told His elect of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship Him at His elect's feet, to know that He loves His faithful elect.

What that 1,000 years thus points to is, a time of revelation for the unsaved to know the WHOLE TRUTH, with the spiritual blindness which GOD placed upon them for this present world removed, so that in that future time they can 'make their choice' to believe, or not believe. Some who hate this idea try to call that a 'second chance' theory, which is stupid, because IF GOD PLACES SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS upon a soul, it means GOD has influenced them so they cannot MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE! That is exactly what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 that God did upon the majority of Paul's brethren the un-believing Jews. And the Romans 11, Revelation 1 and Zechariah 12 Scripture reveals that BLINDNESS which God put upon the majority of Jews, which is still active to this day, won't be removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which means on the day of Christ's future return. When those blinded see Jesus, then Satan is locked in his pit prison, and they will immediately then know Who Lord Jesus is, and the blinded Jews will realize they rejected the True Messiah they were expecting, and thus will wish for the mountains to fall on them, and the hills to cover them, because of their shame at His Presence then.

AI cannot figure any of that out. It requires an understanding in all of God's written Word by The Holy Spirit.

Tension with passages that suggest Christ’s coming ushers in the final state immediately (e.g., 2 Pet. 3, 1 Cor. 15).​

What if I were to just say, "Jesus Saves" to a non-believer? How is the non-believer to understand me? In response, the non-believer might ask himself, "Does he mean Jesus will save me now, today? How exactly will Jesus save me, will He find me a job, give me money to live on, or will I go to Heaven today? When will I see Him? How will I know when He comes to save me?"

Can you understand how saying "Jesus Saves" by itself can lead to asking many things because of an INCOMPLETE STATEMENT? There clearly is so much more written in God's Word to understand about Lord Jesus' saving Grace. And it involves the five categories of: when, how, what, where, and why.

Likewise, just because there's some Scriptures that exist which does not specifically mention the future "thousand years" literal reign by Jesus and His elect does not mean it was never mentioned at all before Revelation 20. But that's how the Amillennialists who want to treat that "thousand years" as spiritual only want us to think of it, which actually shows their Biblical illiteracy.

That because the Old Testament prophets HINTED at that future "thousand years" by Christ and His elect, as Apostle Paul especially did in the 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Scripture declaring that Jesus must reign until He makes all His enemies His footstool. The Psalms 2 Scripture shows Jesus as KING on God's Holy Hill Zion reigning over the rebellious nations with His "rod of iron". And Jesus promised His elect would reign over the nations at His return with that "rod of iron", which is both a future reference to His future 1,000 years reign over the wicked, and also His promise to His elect in that future reign that can only point to after His future 2nd coming, or return.

The Isaiah 24:20-22 Scripture mentions the kings of the earth being cast into the pit when the earth reels to and fro like a drunkard (shaking of heaven and earth that God promised will happen at the end of this present world - Hebrews 12). And those kings will be shut up in Satan's prison and "...after many days shall they be visited." That is an Old Testament hint through the prophet Isaiah about Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Satan is locked in his pit prison, showing those kings who followed Satan will also be in that pit prison with him during that time. It points to the "thousand years" being a literal period.

 

[Muna]

I was looking a couple of simple comparisons

Worship of th dragon who gave power unto the beast

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast

Versus the glorification of God, who gave power unto men

Matt 9:8 And glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

And they worshipped the beast saying

Rev 13:4 ... Who is like unto the beast?

Versus how we might worship the LORD

Psalm 113:5 Who is like unto the LORD our God?

They said of the beast,

Rev 13:4... who is able to make war with him?

And of the LORD

Isaiah 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar;
he shall prevail against his enemies.

And again

Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

I just put those two last ones in because I thought they were too perfect