Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[Jay Ross]

So when Scripture doesn't agree with you, it "should read as".

No it shouldn't.

For some reason, you've ignored these Scriptures. Here they are again. They directly refute your errors. There is no "refurbishment/refreshing".

Everything is new and better.

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

2537 [e]
kainēs
καινῆς
new
Adj-GFS

"new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds: διαθήκη, Matthew 26:28 (T WH omit καινά); Mark 14:24 R L; Luke 22:20 (WH reject the passage); 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8, 13; Hebrews 9:15

Stop trying to exhume your decayed old vanished carcass.

Here is my understanding of G:2537 for you to ponder: -



In the parable of the Neo wine being poured into the "kainos" wine skins "new " Neo wineskins also require refreshing so that they can hold the freshly poured wine into them, otherwise they too will burst.

 

[covenantee]

Here is my understanding of G:2537 for you to ponder: -

View attachment 70613

In the parable of the Neo wine being poured into the "kainos" wine skins "new " Neo wineskins also require refreshing so that they can hold the freshly poured wine into them, otherwise they too will burst.

"Crowds marveled at His “new teaching with authority” (Mark 1:27) and His kingdom parables of “new wine” requiring “new wineskins” (Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:36-38). "

The definition is "New".

Not "refreshed".

The Covenant is "New".

Not "refreshed".

In Christ we become a "new" creature and all things become "new". 2 Corinthians 5:17

Not "refreshed".

 

[Jay Ross]

"Crowds marveled at His “new teaching with authority” (Mark 1:27) and His kingdom parables of “new wine” requiring “new wineskins” (Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:36-38). "

The definition is "New".

Not "refreshed".

The Covenant is "New".

Not "refreshed".

In Christ we become a "new" creature and all things become "new". 2 Corinthians 5:17

Not "refreshed".

Just because the KJV translation committee got the contextual understanding wrong, it does not mean that their understnanding is right either. Even well-meaning committees get it wrong as well.

To change peoples' understanding, theologians have first to create a refreshed Bible for them to reference to see if the word "refreshed," which is contextually correct, can be found in the refreshed translated scriptures.

 

[Scott Downey]

The old covenant passed away, it is dead.
The law remains established, the law is not voided, but the old Covenant is gone.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8 - New King James Version

The New Priestly Service - Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man. For every high...

www.biblegateway.com

Hebrews 8
New King James Version
The New Priestly Service

1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the [a]sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The old covenant passed away, it is dead.

 

[Scott Downey]

Our high priest is now today seated at God's right hand and will never be again on this first earth as otherwise He would not be a priest, v4 for if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, and God swore He is a priest forever. v6, But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Even when Christ returns, He is seated at the right hand of the Father called the POWER.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said unto him, “Thou hast said; nevertheless I say unto you, hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.”

Would the throne of the Father ever leave heaven for Him to sit on this first earth with Christ at His right hand?
Scripture does not say that, it does say in the New earth after the first earth has passed away, God will dwell in the New Jerusalem on the new earth, read Rev 21.

 

[Earburner]

So in the Original Post where it says "one fold, not two"-- by the word of Christ there are indeed two folds (John 10:16) in this world--but only one fold in Christ with the commencement of eternity. Which for the house of Israel precedes even "we who are alive and remain" having come into eternity before natural death--which the house of Israel did not do, for salvation and the Holy Spirit eternal life sent by Jesus after His ascension had not yet come, although "It is finished" for them. Which is what is meant by "So the last will be first, and the first last."

And the sign or prophecy and revelation shows the timing to be just as it is written, as "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming." Which for "we who are alive and remain" in the world after receiving eternal life having been born again of the Spirit--is "each one in his own order." Which we know is not by one mass event as many believe, but "each one" in that order of when He came.

Very well said.
I also have come to terms with the reality of the two folds of believers in Christ.
Those who were of faith in the Messiah to come, born as an Israelite, such as Simeon (Luke 2:25-33), all died "under the altar" of the OC. before Christ's death and resurrection. Even the repentant thief on the cross alludes to that situation of condition, by saying: "Remember me when you come into your kingdom".

All of such never had the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, and therefore never had the Gift of Eternal life (1John 5:11-13) until after Christ.
The best that God could do for the faithful under the OC. was to keep them in His "remembrance". Malachi 3:16-18
As the scripture says: John 7
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Did God forget those he held in "remembrance", such as Noah, Abraham, Moses and the countless unnamed who were of faith in the Messiah to come? Absolutely not!! We find them in Rev. 6:9-11, in which Mat. 27:50-54 is that PAST reality.
They ARE the symbolic 144,000.

Now, having said that, we can safely conclude that ever since Jesus' Ascension and Pentecost forward, all who are born again of His Holy Spirit, being both Jew and Gentile, are now become a New creature (creation).
Therefore, since now there is no difference between the Jew and Gentile through faith in Jesus, we all are now of "The Great Multitude", waiting in expectation of Christ to return from Heaven in all His Immortal Glory.

 

[covenantee]

Just because the KJV translation committee got the contextual understanding wrong, it does not mean that their understnanding is right either. Even well-meaning committees get it wrong as well.

To change peoples' understanding, theologians have first to create a refreshed Bible for them to reference to see if the word "refreshed," which is contextually correct, can be found in the refreshed translated scriptures.

Provide for us a link to any recognized English translation of Hebrews 9:15 in which the word "refreshed" instead of the word "new" is used.

You can start here.

Your own personal private mistranslation doesn't qualify.

 

[Earburner]

Provide for us a link to any recognized English translation of Hebrews 9:15 in which the word "refreshed" instead of the word "new" is used.

Your own personal private mistranslation doesn't qualify.

Amen!
Heb. 9

1. [13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:[14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the NEW testament, that by means of [Christ's] death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the FIRST [Old] testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance [Life]. 1 John 5:11-13.

 

[ScottA]

The reality is: that one fold was an Israeli fold. That is what we have been integrated into.

Of course--"so as to create in Himself one new man from the two."

Even so, the greater message of "Jeremiah 31:35-37", is that of the timing--the coming together of "all truth"--given "here a little there a little" down through the ages, but only "finished" as words fully connected, when the seventh angel "is about to sound." Which all occurred in Christ in His time--which is the end of the old and the beginning of the new--BUT, "as in Adam" "each one in his own order.

 

[WPM]

Of course--"so as to create in Himself one new man from the two."

Even so, the greater message of "Jeremiah 31:35-37", is that of the timing--the coming together of "all truth"--given "here a little there a little" down through the ages, but only "finished" as words fully connected, when the seventh angel "is about to sound." Which all occurred in Christ in His time--which is the end of the old and the beginning of the new--BUT, "as in Adam" "each one in his own order.

Only in your imagination.

 

[ScottA]

Very well said.
I also have come to terms with the reality of the two folds of believers in Christ.
Those who were of faith in the Messiah to come, born as an Israelite, such as Simeon (Luke 2:25-33), all died "under the altar" of the OC. before Christ's death and resurrection. Even the repentant thief on the cross alludes to that situation of condition, by saying: "Remember me when you come into your kingdom".

All of such never had the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, and therefore never had the Gift of Eternal life (1John 5:11-13) until after Christ.
The best that God could do for the faithful under the OC. was to keep them in His "remembrance". Malachi 3:16-18
As the scripture says: John 7
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Did God forget those he held in "remembrance", such as Noah, Abraham, Moses and the countless unnamed who were of faith in the Messiah to come? Absolutely not!! We find them in Rev. 6:9-11, in which Mat. 27:50-54 is that PAST reality.
They ARE the symbolic 144,000.

Now, having said that, we can safely conclude that ever since Jesus' Ascension and Pentecost forward, all who are born again of His Holy Spirit, being both Jew and Gentile, are now become a New creature (creation).
Therefore, since now there is no difference between the Jew and Gentile through faith in Jesus, we all are now of "The Great Multitude", waiting in expectation of Christ to return from Heaven in all His Immortal Glory.

Good--however...the Holy Spirit coming to those born again of the spirit of God since Pentecost--is Christ's return "in the glory of His Father." He does not return again in the flesh as many believe--but "in the glory of His Father"--as He said.

 

[ScottA]

Only in your imagination.

You mock--but I have not spoken of my imagination, but His. It is He who has imagined it all--even man "in His own image." Which I have merely declared to you in truth confirming what is written.

 

[WPM]

You mock--but I have not spoken of my imagination, but His. It is He who has imagined it all--even man "in His own image." Which I have merely declared to you in truth confirming what is written.

No. You are twisting it - as usual.

 

[Jay Ross]

Provide for us a link to any recognized English translation of Hebrews 9:15 in which the word "refreshed" instead of the word "new" is used.

You can start here.

Do the recognised English Translations of Hebrews 9:15 which agree with each other make the translation of "Kainos" as "new" right.

If what you are claiming is correct, then an example from everyday living is called for.

If I state that I have a new car, am I saying that the car is brand new in that it was driven off the assembly line where it was manufactured very recently and it still has very low milage, or am I saying the car is "new" to me in that I have just purchased the car recently, but the car was manufactured twenty or so years ago and its speedometer shows that it has been driven for many miles.

Which understanding is true? Both can be true my statement requires more context wrapped around the statement to clarify what I meant by the condition of the car.

Now with regards to God's salvation covenant, it has been in place for mankind from the very beginning, from the time that Adam was created but the process by which our redemption has changed from, where God Sacrificed animal, to where mankind sacrificed animal to indicate their contrite heart in asking for forgiveness to the final process where God has used the death of His own Son to cover our sins against God with the blood of His own Son.

Now has the Salvation Covenant been changed since the beginning of time or has the process by which the redemption of mankind is achieved been adjusted so that mankind can circumcise the flesh of our hearts.

Has God changed his Salvation Covenant from what it was in the beginning or has His Salvation been refreshed by the modification by which our salvation is granted for us?

That was indicated by Christ when He drove the money changers and sellers of "acceptable" animal out of the temple.

Jesus told the administrators of the temple practices that if they cause the temple building to be destroyed to be destroyed, then He would rebuild the temple in three days of the Lord using the Saints/His elect as the building blocks of the temple that He would build in Heaven to worship God unreservedly.

The question for you to answer is, "Is your rebuttal based on a false argument or not?"

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

Your own personal private mistranslation doesn't qualify.

This same question is also applicable to your understanding as well.

 

[ScottA]

No. You are twisting it - as usual.

Your accusation is noted (with Him who sent me).

 

[Earburner]

Good--however...the Holy Spirit coming to those born again of the spirit of God since Pentecost--is Christ's return "in the glory of His Father." He does not return again in the flesh as many believe--but "in the glory of His Father"--as He said.

Though "church-ianity" does not promote the three comings of Christ, it alludes to it erroneously, by foolishly fabricating an invisible "secret rapture". However, all born again Christians really do know of the three comings of Christ.
1. He came in the likeness of mortal flesh. Luke 2:9-12.
2. He is still coming by His Holy Spirit. John 14:23; Rev. 3:20.
3. He shall return in His Immortal Glory.
Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

 

[ScottA]

Though "church-ianity" does not promote the three comings of Christ, it alludes to it erroneously, by foolishly fabricating an invisible "secret rapture". However, all born again Christians really do know of the three comings of Christ.
1. He came in the likeness of mortal flesh.
2. He is still coming by His Holy Spirit.
3. He shall return in His Immortal Glory

I tell you, 2 and 3 are the same. That is the moment of God being all in all. Which was before the foundation of the world, then made manifest at His coming, but each one in his own order.

 

[WPM]

Your accusation is noted (with Him who sent me).

Get a life!

 

[covenantee]

This same question is also applicable to your understanding as well.

Certainly. But I'm in the company of 50 recognized unanimous translators.

You're not.

Have you contacted any of these 50 translators to inform them of their error?

If not, why not? If so, what was their explanation?