70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.

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SteveSmid

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Christian Widener at endtimesberean.com has argued two 70 weeks exist for the two advents of Jesus, and the second declaration to rebuild Jerusalem occurred in 1537 by Sultan Sulieman which includes plaza and moat as written in Daniel. 483 years later, the pandemic began the second 70th Week period in 2020. Widener offers detailed explanations in videos and free pdf books. I strongly recommend you visit his site.

Also, Widener has recently determined the 70th Week of birth pangs and the Day of the Lord must be separate events after determining the Day of the Lord happens on a Jubilee year. He provides strong scriptural evidence, and when working out an end times system, many problems are solved. Please note my details below.

When separating the 70th Week and the Day of the Lord, the 1290 days, the 42-month reign, and the 7-year confirmation need to be resolved, meaning Daniel 9:27 should be resolved with Daniel 12:11.

9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.

12:11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

Hamas officials have said publicly the attack on October 7th, 2023 was motivated by the red heifers, and the Al-Aqsa Flood was to stop sacrifices before they began.

The Abomination of Desolation is translated as two events. The first Abomination of Desolation event on October 7th, 2023 “sets” up the second “wing” of desolations 1290 days later when the antichrist declares himself god in the holy place and confirms the 7-year covenant. This must begin his 42-month reign so he can tear up the covenant halfway through. Therefore, the timeline needs a 7-year Day of the Lord that begins April 19th, 2027, and runs into 2033. (Not a full week because the days are shortened.)

The Abraham Accords were first signed in 2020. This covenant with the many could be reaffirmed in 2027 and is a symbolic reason for the Woman (Israel) to be protected in the wilderness (of world events) during the reign of the antichrist.

Paul's words strongly suggest the Church will know the identity of the antichrist before the Rapture.

Parable of the 10 Virgins concern the Rapture. 5 Wise are Raptured while 5 Foolish enter the Day of the Lord. The 5 Foolish are not truly saved. Jesus says he never knew them. But the 5 Foolish have a second chance for redemption and become the Two Witnesses. In Deuteronomy, accusations require two witnesses. Church is a lampstand, which is how they are referred to in Revelation.

I believe demons disguised as "aliens" will play a role. Strong delusion? Aliens we be credited for signs and lying wonders instead of supernatural powers. This allows for evil to capture the attention of the world without admitting the true God exists, and thus continuing the choice to believe. The world may not even witness creatures and ships. They may only be referred to.

The concepts below are rooted in scripture. I apologize for not giving references.

With these ideas in mind, here is my eschatological system.

Basic Timeline:

• 1537 Declaration of Suliman. Near the beginning of Reformation.
• 2020 Start of the 70th Week.
• October 7th, 2023. Abomination of Desolation.
• March 2027? End of 70th Week.
• ***Trumpets. April 19th, 2027. Abomination of Desolation.
• Antichrist Reign.
• June 3rd, 2027. Day 1335. Related to Rapture?
• ***Bowls. October 19th, 2030.
• Armageddon.
• Second Advent.
• August 10th, 2033. Temple cleansed.

Detailed Timeline:

70th Week:

• 1537: Declaration of Suliman to rebuild Jerusalem including plaza and moat.
• 2020: Four Horsemen ride. Abraham Accords initially signed. Birth pangs begin.
• October 7th, 2023: 1st event of the Abomination of Desolation. Sacrifices prevented/stopped.
• Psalms 83 War final battle follows Abomination. Previous battles: 1948, 1967, 1973, etc.
• Around March 2027: Tribulation week ends. Event? Powerful delusion?

Day of the Lord Week:

Trumpets:

• April 19th, 2027: 1290 days after October 7th, 2023.
• Antichrist declares himself god in the holy place, confirms Abraham Accords.
• June 3rd, 2027: 1335 days after October 7th, 2023. “Blessed is he who waits and reaches 1335 days.”
• Between 1290 and 1335 days forms a possible Rapture window ending June 3rd, 2027.
• Church Rapture. 5 wise virgins. Marriage Feast of the Lamb.
• Confirmation of Abraham Accords sends the Woman, Israel, symbolically into wilderness for protection. World preoccupied with bigger issues.
• April 19th, 2027, thru October 19th, 2030: Antichrist 42-month reign. Approximate end date.
• Trumpet judgements are meant to wake up the world and show mercy. Not too severe. Warnings.
• Trumpets are symbolic. Burning mountain into sea: God’s judgement (fire) causes mountain (major nation) to collapse into chaos (sea). Syria?
• Gentiles trample the plaza, desolating the Jews.
• 5 foolish virgins repent and become the Church, also known as the Two Witnesses. Lampstand is a church. Two witness verse in Deuteronomy. 144K?
• The killing of the Two Witness is symbolic: churches and synagogues closed, Christianity and Judaism outlawed. Islam celebrates with gifts.
• Two Witnesses raptured. Trumpet Saints Rapture. 5 foolish virgins are redeemed by this time.

Bowls:

• October 19th, 2030: God declares authority over the world. Ark is seen in heaven.
• Sun darkens. Moon turns to blood. Yellowstone erupts?
• Daniel 9:27: Decreed end is poured out on Antichrist. 42 month reign ends.
• Bowls are not warning. Only judgement.
• Antichrist attacks Israel and newly converted saints.
• Whore and Beast/Babylon System collapses because of Bowls.
• Gog and Magog (Armageddon) begins.
• Days are cut short for the sake of the elect.
• Second Advent occurs during window: October 19th, 2030 thru August 10th, 2033.
• Bowl Saints Rapture. Angels gather from the 4 corners of the earth.
• 2300 days after April 19th, 2027: August 10th, 2033. Temple is cleansed..
• Gog and Magog cleanup.

Points:

• 42 months after the start of the Bowls is April 19th, 2034.
• But the days were cut short, ending sometime before 2300 days, or August 10th, 2033, when scripture says the Temple will be cleansed.
• My system gives Antichrist his full time to do his shenanigans out in the open, not in the background.
• My system has three raptures, but maybe the Church (5 wise virgins) remains through the Trumpets. If so, 1335 days are a mystery.
• Verse in Matthew about praying to be worthy refers to the 10 virgins.
• The 5 foolish virgins are not part of the elect before the Day of the Lord but turn to Jesus during Trumpets.
• All existing elect must be Raptured before the Bowls. Elect not meant for judgement. Bowl Saints likely die to be redeemed.
• My system does not set a specific date for all three raptures.
• My system sets a nearly 3-year window for Second Advent of Jesus. Rapture is not the Advent.
• Trumpet judgements cannot be too calamitous, or Babylon System would collapse far before the end.
• Holy Spirit is present the entire time or no one saved.
• Michael, the Restrainer, stands up to leave October 19th before the Bowls. No more protection for Israel.
• Gog and Magog and Armageddon are the same war. Separate World War III before the end not feasible.
• I don’t believe the world will witness the supernatural all throughout the end times. Natural or “alien” explanations for all events.
• Alien technology will be credited for lying signs and wonders. 3I/Atlas?
• Alien technology and natural events are the reason sinners will still not repent.
• Muslims gift each other for celebration. Hadiyah. Islam becomes world religion.
• My system allows the Church to witness the Antichrist for about 45 days as Paul suggests.
• 2027 is two thousand years after the start of Christ’s ministry.
• 2033 is two thousand years after the crucifixion.
• When the terms “42 months” or “time, times, and half a time” are used, exact number of days may not be accurate.
• When exact day counts are given, like 1290, then the days are accurate.
-- Antichrist exalts himself above all gods, so cannot claim to be Messiah or Mahdi.
-- Antichrist will likely claim to be healed of mortal wound by "aliens" and claim they seeded us on the planet.
-- Antichrist claims to be above all gods because they do not exist. Aliens are credited for all signs and wonders.
-- Lack of supernatural events allows humanity to still have the choice to believe.

Problems:

• Jesus’s 70 weeks included a final week of ministry. Prince’s 70 weeks end before his “ministry.”
• Apophis arrives in 2029. Maybe antichrist diverts it to save the world.
• My dates don’t line up with festivals.
• Cannot specify an exact start date of the 70th week, but April 7th, 2020 is 42 months prior to October 7th, 2023.
• Cannot identify an ending event for the 70th week.
• Day 1335 could be from April 19th, 2027, which would make the Rapture 75 days past October 19th, 2030. If not exactly 42-month reign, this could be when the Two Witnesses are Raptured.
 

ScottA

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Christian Widener at endtimesberean.com has argued two 70 weeks exist for the two advents of Jesus, and the second declaration to rebuild Jerusalem occurred in 1537 by Sultan Sulieman which includes plaza and moat as written in Daniel. 483 years later, the pandemic began the second 70th Week period in 2020. Widener offers detailed explanations in videos and free pdf books. I strongly recommend you visit his site.

Also, Widener has recently determined the 70th Week of birth pangs and the Day of the Lord must be separate events after determining the Day of the Lord happens on a Jubilee year. He provides strong scriptural evidence, and when working out an end times system, many problems are solved. Please note my details below.

When separating the 70th Week and the Day of the Lord, the 1290 days, the 42-month reign, and the 7-year confirmation need to be resolved, meaning Daniel 9:27 should be resolved with Daniel 12:11.

9:27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.

12:11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.

Hamas officials have said publicly the attack on October 7th, 2023 was motivated by the red heifers, and the Al-Aqsa Flood was to stop sacrifices before they began.

The Abomination of Desolation is translated as two events. The first Abomination of Desolation event on October 7th, 2023 “sets” up the second “wing” of desolations 1290 days later when the antichrist declares himself god in the holy place and confirms the 7-year covenant. This must begin his 42-month reign so he can tear up the covenant halfway through. Therefore, the timeline needs a 7-year Day of the Lord that begins April 19th, 2027, and runs into 2033. (Not a full week because the days are shortened.)

The Abraham Accords were first signed in 2020. This covenant with the many could be reaffirmed in 2027 and is a symbolic reason for the Woman (Israel) to be protected in the wilderness (of world events) during the reign of the antichrist.

Paul's words strongly suggest the Church will know the identity of the antichrist before the Rapture.

Parable of the 10 Virgins concern the Rapture. 5 Wise are Raptured while 5 Foolish enter the Day of the Lord. The 5 Foolish are not truly saved. Jesus says he never knew them. But the 5 Foolish have a second chance for redemption and become the Two Witnesses. In Deuteronomy, accusations require two witnesses. Church is a lampstand, which is how they are referred to in Revelation.

I believe demons disguised as "aliens" will play a role. Strong delusion? Aliens we be credited for signs and lying wonders instead of supernatural powers. This allows for evil to capture the attention of the world without admitting the true God exists, and thus continuing the choice to believe. The world may not even witness creatures and ships. They may only be referred to.

The concepts below are rooted in scripture. I apologize for not giving references.

With these ideas in mind, here is my eschatological system.

Basic Timeline:

• 1537 Declaration of Suliman. Near the beginning of Reformation.
• 2020 Start of the 70th Week.
• October 7th, 2023. Abomination of Desolation.
• March 2027? End of 70th Week.
• ***Trumpets. April 19th, 2027. Abomination of Desolation.
• Antichrist Reign.
• June 3rd, 2027. Day 1335. Related to Rapture?
• ***Bowls. October 19th, 2030.
• Armageddon.
• Second Advent.
• August 10th, 2033. Temple cleansed.

Detailed Timeline:

70th Week:

• 1537: Declaration of Suliman to rebuild Jerusalem including plaza and moat.
• 2020: Four Horsemen ride. Abraham Accords initially signed. Birth pangs begin.
• October 7th, 2023: 1st event of the Abomination of Desolation. Sacrifices prevented/stopped.
• Psalms 83 War final battle follows Abomination. Previous battles: 1948, 1967, 1973, etc.
• Around March 2027: Tribulation week ends. Event? Powerful delusion?

Day of the Lord Week:

Trumpets:

• April 19th, 2027: 1290 days after October 7th, 2023.
• Antichrist declares himself god in the holy place, confirms Abraham Accords.
• June 3rd, 2027: 1335 days after October 7th, 2023. “Blessed is he who waits and reaches 1335 days.”
• Between 1290 and 1335 days forms a possible Rapture window ending June 3rd, 2027.
• Church Rapture. 5 wise virgins. Marriage Feast of the Lamb.
• Confirmation of Abraham Accords sends the Woman, Israel, symbolically into wilderness for protection. World preoccupied with bigger issues.
• April 19th, 2027, thru October 19th, 2030: Antichrist 42-month reign. Approximate end date.
• Trumpet judgements are meant to wake up the world and show mercy. Not too severe. Warnings.
• Trumpets are symbolic. Burning mountain into sea: God’s judgement (fire) causes mountain (major nation) to collapse into chaos (sea). Syria?
• Gentiles trample the plaza, desolating the Jews.
• 5 foolish virgins repent and become the Church, also known as the Two Witnesses. Lampstand is a church. Two witness verse in Deuteronomy. 144K?
• The killing of the Two Witness is symbolic: churches and synagogues closed, Christianity and Judaism outlawed. Islam celebrates with gifts.
• Two Witnesses raptured. Trumpet Saints Rapture. 5 foolish virgins are redeemed by this time.

Bowls:

• October 19th, 2030: God declares authority over the world. Ark is seen in heaven.
• Sun darkens. Moon turns to blood. Yellowstone erupts?
• Daniel 9:27: Decreed end is poured out on Antichrist. 42 month reign ends.
• Bowls are not warning. Only judgement.
• Antichrist attacks Israel and newly converted saints.
• Whore and Beast/Babylon System collapses because of Bowls.
• Gog and Magog (Armageddon) begins.
• Days are cut short for the sake of the elect.
• Second Advent ...
Welcome Steve!

The 70 weeks has been interpreted in error all this time. Daniel was told that "seventy weeks are determined for your people", yes. But 69 weeks with one remaining is not the answer in the way that it has been interpreted. Unfortunately, the truth has been too simple to be taken seriously, and confused by the word "weeks" used as an example under the spiritual veil of God. In "all truth"--that truth that was not to come except by the Holy Spirit. The seventy weeks simply refers to the creation week--that time of God's six days of work and one day of rest--which was a prophecy of God's entire plan of salvation, even from Adam, even from before the foundation of the world.

In that "all truth" explanation of the seventy weeks of Daniel's own prophecy--a retelling of God's original prophecy--the sixty-two weeks is a riddle--similar to Daniel's "a time, times, and half a time" (which connects the two prophecies as being one and the same.

The seventy weeks then, is it's own prophecy reiterated for Israel--but again, under the spiritual veil [of confusion] which came upon all language at Babel. Wherein, the seventh day refers to the people of God (Daniel's people) entering God's rest--but told in "weeks" to emphasize a multitude by Godly multiplication. All of which would not be known until "the time of the end." In other words, not until "the seventh angel, when he is about to sound." This is that time.
 

SteveSmid

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Welcome Steve!

The 70 weeks has been interpreted in error all this time. Daniel was told that "seventy weeks are determined for your people", yes. But 69 weeks with one remaining is not the answer in the way that it has been interpreted. Unfortunately, the truth has been too simple to be taken seriously, and confused by the word "weeks" used as an example under the spiritual veil of God. In "all truth"--that truth that was not to come except by the Holy Spirit. The seventy weeks simply refers to the creation week--that time of God's six days of work and one day of rest--which was a prophecy of God's entire plan of salvation, even from Adam, even from before the foundation of the world.

In that "all truth" explanation of the seventy weeks of Daniel's own prophecy--a retelling of God's original prophecy--the sixty-two weeks is a riddle--similar to Daniel's "a time, times, and half a time" (which connects the two prophecies as being one and the same.

The seventy weeks then, is it's own prophecy reiterated for Israel--but again, under the spiritual veil [of confusion] which came upon all language at Babel. Wherein, the seventh day refers to the people of God (Daniel's people) entering God's rest--but told in "weeks" to emphasize a multitude by Godly multiplication. All of which would not be known until "the time of the end." In other words, not until "the seventh angel, when he is about to sound." This is that time.
Hi Scott:

It would be difficult to respond as your perception of prophesy puts you in a completely different arena.

For me, a narrative exists rather than a symbolic retelling of the creation story.

And I do not believe you really read through my system, or you would not have mentioned the missing week. It is not in my system. With two Advents of Christ, there were two periods of 70 Weeks, the first ending with the Crucifixion. The second 70 Weeks began in 1537, and reasons were given.

Regardless, I hope for discussion.

Thank you for your time.

Steve.
 

Douggg

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With two Advents of Christ, there were two periods of 70 Weeks, the first ending with the Crucifixion. The second 70 Weeks began in 1537, and reasons were given.
Steve, there is one group of 70 weeks determined on Daniel's people, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Daniel 9:24.

The 70th week of 7 years of Daniel 9:27 is still unfulfilled. Those 7 years are also in Ezekiel 39:9 following the Gog/Magog attack on Israel.

Here is a chart I made of the 7 years. Follow the red line path from upper left to lower right.

The 7 years 2.jpg
 
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SteveSmid

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Hey Doug:

Ironically, if there were only one set of 70 Weeks, we would still be close on interpretation, but I believe the second set began in 1537 when the Sultan Sulieman declared Jerusalem be rebuilt, plaza and moat. Plaza and moat are mentioned in Daniel, but never mentioned in the first declaration and rebuilding. 483 years after 1537 is the year 2020. So, however you want to define it, a 70th Week started in 2020.

The other major difference is the separation of the final week of Tribulation and the Day of the Lord. This is a new concept from Christian Widener, and there is scriptural evidence. I strongly recommend you check him out at endtimeberean.com.

You may have a hard time adjusting to these ideas, and you may consider how no one is talking about it, but remember, Israel did not understand the first Advent of Christ by holding on to their own expectations. We should instead compare actual events to see if they line up with scripture.

For example, October 7th, 2023, fits as an abomination of desolation. Hama leaders said publicly the motivation was to stop sacrifices from starting due to the red heifers. This is not what anyone expected.

Please take a little time to go through my system. I try to make the narrative fit the scriptures without predicting the specifics. And please consider the seals are not events unto themselves, but an outline of the entire end times.

Steve.
 

Douggg

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but I believe the second set began in 1537 when the Sultan Sulieman declared Jerusalem be rebuilt, plaza and moat
The going forth of the commandment to restore and to be build Jerusalem unto the Messiah in Daniel 9:25 - has already happened since Jesus has already come and been cutoff.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So whatever Sultan Sulieman did in 1537 AD has no connection to the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the abomination of desolation, here is a chart I made of that timeline.

counrt forward 1290 days paart 5.jpg
 

SteveSmid

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The term Messiah the Prince is puzzling. Normally, Prince is used for the Prince who is to come, and this Prince is then discussed right after the verse. If there had been a comma in between, it would have been more obvious. There are plaques on the plaza and moat from Sultan Sulieman proclaiming his work to rebuild, and Daniel directly mentions plaza and moat. Most just assumed this work was done in the first rebuilding, but it was not mentioned in scripture.

Regardless, you do not believe in the second set.

But what about the separation of the final week and the Day of the Lord? If the covenant with the many is confirmed 1290 days after the abomination of desolation, then how would that correlate with the stopping of the sacrifices? The antichrist would be helping and hurting Israel at the same time?

There needs to be an abomination in the middle of the week, and then a second event 1290 days later. Then, after his 42 month reign, halfway through the 7-year confirmation, antichrist tears up the covenant.

Nowhere does scripture say that the Day of the Lord happens in the 70th week or even overlaps.

Everyone who argues that God allows his people to go through tribulations are then correct. Those who note we are not meant for wrath are also correct.

Please read through with an open mind. The two 70 weeks are not a deal breaker.
 

ScottA

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Hi Scott:

It would be difficult to respond as your perception of prophesy puts you in a completely different arena.

For me, a narrative exists rather than a symbolic retelling of the creation story.

And I do not believe you really read through my system, or you would not have mentioned the missing week. It is not in my system. With two Advents of Christ, there were two periods of 70 Weeks, the first ending with the Crucifixion. The second 70 Weeks began in 1537, and reasons were given.

Regardless, I hope for discussion.

Thank you for your time.

Steve.
Different indeed. Not "for me" or by me.

But yes, I did not continue to read after noticing the error in the first sentence, and that you repeated it in the last section of "Problems":
Christian Widener at endtimesberean.com has argued two 70 weeks exist for the two advents of Jesus, and the second declaration to rebuild Jerusalem occurred in 1537 by Sultan Sulieman which includes plaza and moat as written in Daniel. 483 years later, the pandemic began the second 70th Week period in 2020. Widener offers detailed explanations in videos and free pdf books. I strongly recommend you visit his site.
Problems:

• Jesus’s 70 weeks included a final week of ministry.

Regardless, I was simply giving you the correct answer and narrative.
 

Douggg

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But what about the separation of the final week and the Day of the Lord? If the covenant with the many is confirmed 1290 days after the abomination of desolation, then how would that correlate with the stopping of the sacrifices? The antichrist would be helping and hurting Israel at the same time?
Steve, allow me to say that I have been studying the end times for 53 years. So I apologize if I what I write and say seems complicated to understand.

The confirmation of the covenant with many is referring to the Mt. Sinai covenant. (a different popular view is that the covenant is a peace treaty involving Israel and other nations. However, that is incorrect. The rationale for that view is that in Daniel 8:25 the little horn person (the Antichrist) destroys many by peace.)

The covenant though will be the Mt. Sinai covenant, which the Jews hold to.

Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that every 7 years the leaders of Israel would make a big speech to the nation of Israel about how God have given the land of Israel as theirs forever - under the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The term "many" is used to reflect that the size of Israel's population wise would be larger than it was back in Daniel's time, when they had been taken into Babylonian captivity.

The speech will be from the temple mount (stated in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13 as the place of God's choosing. I have discussed this matter with Jews (Judaism) who say the temple mount is the place of God's choosing. The speek will be highly publicized in the news. The person giving the speech will be the Antichrist who the Jews fore awhile will think is their long awaited King of Israel messiah.


the big speech.jpg


The speech begins the 7 years. Day 1.

It is not unto the middle part of the 7 years that the abomination of desolation will be set up on the temple mount. 1335 days before Jesus returns. A lot of stuff will happen before the abomination of desolation set up. One of the things before then will be transgression of desolation (Daniel 8:13) act by the Antichrist - the sit in the temple act described in 2Thessalonians2:4)

Once the abomination of desolation is setup, there will be 1290 days until the sign of the Son of Man in Matthew 24:30a appears in heaven.

Here is a chart I made that has the sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven on it.....

1290 days 1335 days.jpg
 
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SteveSmid

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According to my study they do line up by having the Tribulation as birth pangs only and the Day of the Lord after.

Thanks for your consideration.
 

ScottA

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:( So much speculation and conjecture--so many formulas and teachings of men!

Please understand--though many have built upon the foundations of the past to extrapolate their own false doctrines--the actual truth from God was to be under restraint until very near the end (2 Thessalonians 2:7)--and would not even be what has been expected (Matthew 24:44). Even so, "all truth" regarding "the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" was to come when the times are fulfilled. That is what is written, what was promised, and this is that time.
 

Truth7t7

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Basic Timeline:

• 1537 Declaration of Suliman. Near the beginning of Reformation.
• 2020 Start of the 70th Week.
• October 7th, 2023. Abomination of Desolation.
• March 2027? End of 70th Week.
• ***Trumpets. April 19th, 2027. Abomination of Desolation.
• Antichrist Reign.
• June 3rd, 2027. Day 1335. Related to Rapture?
• ***Bowls. October 19th, 2030.
• Armageddon.
• Second Advent.
• August 10th, 2033. Temple cleansed.
Wiedner is just another date setter trying to claim he's got it all figured out, a bunch of Malarkey just like the rest of the date setters
 

SteveSmid

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:( So much speculation and conjecture--so many formulas and teachings of men!

Please understand--though many have built upon the foundations of the past to extrapolate their own false doctrines--the actual truth from God was to be under restraint until very near the end (2 Thessalonians 2:7)--and would not even be what has been expected (Matthew 24:44). Even so, "all truth" regarding "the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" was to come when the times are fulfilled. That is what is written, what was promised, and this is that time.
:( So much speculation and conjecture--so many formulas and teachings of men!

Please understand--though many have built upon the foundations of the past to extrapolate their own false doctrines--the actual truth from God was to be under restraint until very near the end (2 Thessalonians 2:7)--and would not even be what has been expected (Matthew 24:44). Even so, "all truth" regarding "the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" was to come when the times are fulfilled. That is what is written, what was promised, and this is that time.
Not sure if you are agreeing or chastising. I'm down with the idea of "already but not yet." With so many clues about the end times and the commandment to watch, I believe in a healthy discussion about what is going on, and I do not think we should be trying to predict, only watch.
 

Douggg

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According to my study they do line up by having the Tribulation as birth pangs only and the Day of the Lord after.

Thanks for your consideration.
When the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4 - that begins the Day of the Lord (called the day of Christ in 2Thessalonians2:2).

The Day of the Lord begins then, but it has no end, it is eternal. There are segments to it though as I show on my chart below. Follow the progression from left to right.

day of the Lord segments 2.jpg
 
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SteveSmid

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Widener is not a date setter and insists no one should. The reaction I get everywhere else--stop the studying, you can't make anything out of it--I'm getting the same reaction here. An occurrence happened on October 7th, 2023. If you are offended by analysis of the event, then so be it.
 

ScottA

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Not sure if you are agreeing or chastising. I'm down with the idea of "already but not yet." With so many clues about the end times and the commandment to watch, I believe in a healthy discussion about what is going on, and I do not think we should be trying to predict, only watch.
Watch is good, but with expectation is better. Not what we have expected, for Christ took what we expect off the table. But rather with expectation of what was actually foretold and not understood--as if we are all wrong, and only God is correct--who never changes, and would declare all "before they spring forth" (Isaiah 42:9).
 

quietthinker

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70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.​

I guess Saturday is not really the continuation of Friday. Saturday will be realised sometime in the future. All you folk who believe that Saturday follows Friday are mistaken if not deceived.
Give me the time and courtesy while I develop a theory and a logic with plenty of words to persuade you. It will come complete with maps and icons.....and you will see how insightful and smart I am.
 

SteveSmid

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70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.​

I guess Saturday is not really the continuation of Friday. Saturday will be realised sometime in the future. All you folk who believe that Saturday follows Friday are mistaken if not deceived.
Give me the time and courtesy while I develop a theory and a logic with plenty of words to persuade you. It will come complete with maps and icons.....and you will see how insightful and smart I am.
Don't bother. This site is not for me.