• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,509
4,788
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Yes, well Joshua's prediction may still be plausible according to the Julian calendar ( 13 days behind), which was used in Jesus time. Likely, that song may be applicable.
Well the rapture has no pre-events for it to happen so it could happen to night! but in my personal opinion (not a biblical fact) I believe that the rapture will happen in some future feast of trumpets when the 100th trumpet blast is sounded which is known as the great trump or the last trump! It seems fitting that teh church disappears when god focuses His highest attention on preparing the nation of Israel to accept their Messiah.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
16,392
8,947
113
50
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Well the rapture has no pre-events for it to happen so it could happen to night! but in my personal opinion (not a biblical fact) I believe that the rapture will happen in some future feast of trumpets when the 100th trumpet blast is sounded which is known as the great trump or the last trump! It seems fitting that teh church disappears when god focuses His highest attention on preparing the nation of Israel to accept their Messiah.
Well the rapture has no pre-events for it to happen
Direct lie against the words of the LORD and the Holy Prophets and the Holy Apostles

STOP believing the lies from the modern day false teachers who speak that which never came out of the mouth of God.
 

Davidpt

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2023
2,512
797
113
68
East Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well the rapture has no pre-events for it to happen so it could happen to night! but in my personal opinion (not a biblical fact) I believe that the rapture will happen in some future feast of trumpets when the 100th trumpet blast is sounded which is known as the great trump or the last trump! It seems fitting that teh church disappears when god focuses His highest attention on preparing the nation of Israel to accept their Messiah.

In your view of things is that meaning before or after the 7 trumpets recorded in Revelation? Obviously, the last trump can't be the last trump if there are more trumps that follow it. It can only be the last trump after every trump that is going to sound, have sounded first. You would think no one should disagree with that.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,509
4,788
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Direct lie against the words of the LORD and the Holy Prophets and the Holy Apostles

STOP believing the lies from the modern day false teachers who speak that which never came out of the mouth of God.
Bold accusation. Care to back it up with some biblical evidence?
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,509
4,788
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
In your view of things is that meaning before or after the 7 trumpets recorded in Revelation? Obviously, the last trump can't be the last trump if there are more trumps that follow it. It can only be the last trump after every trump that is going to sound, have sounded first. You would think no one should disagree with that.
Long before. there are a few believers who believe the rapture happens at the blowing of the seventh trumpet, but that is simply not true. The church will not go through any part of the 70th week of Daniel. Paul had no knowledge of the 7 trumpets when he penned we shall be changed at the last trump. He did know of the 100 trumpet soundings of the feast of trumpets ans that the final or 100th sounding was called the last trump.

Also remember none of the 7 trumpets are called the trump of god like the trump in thesselonians.

The seven trumpets announce judgment and wrath, the Trump for the rapture calls Gods ambassadors home! Just like before war breaks out with nations, they recall their ambassadors home before hostilities break out!
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
16,392
8,947
113
50
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Bold accusation. Care to back it up with some biblical evidence?
When approaching the Holy Scriptures, always place yourself under this Highest Priority #1 Commandment of the LORD.
Commanded by the LORD at least 3 times

Deuteronomy 4:1-2
“Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I teach you to observe, that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you.
You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
If anyone adds to these things,
God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muna

Bladerunner

Active Member
Oct 5, 2024
502
142
43
75
SPARTA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It happens every day and has been since the beginning of time for anyone who believes in Jesus, that’s the way a believer goes to be with the Lord.

For some reason people ignore the actual words of the “rapture” verses and have turned into a special event for a special group when it’s actually an event that all believers will take part in.
no, at the rapture event, all those who are dead will rise and be reunited with their bodies that are in Heaven...For on those part of His church will this cover. After these rise, the living at that time will be caught up in the air and their bodies will immediately be changed into the body ready for heaven. Millions of graves will be opened, and millions (estimated 70-100million in the USA, with much less in the rest of the world.) will disappear...This will immediately put the USA into a third party country. All the good/believers are gone...Only unbelievers are left behind.
 
  • Love
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

Bladerunner

Active Member
Oct 5, 2024
502
142
43
75
SPARTA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
False teachers predicted another day for the rapture.
Another day predicted and gone with no rapture.
They never learn.
I wonder which day is next.

During old testament times they would stone false prophets.
These days we just accuse them of making an error.
And on it goes.
The true believers do not teach the date of the Rapture. It is imminent and can happen at any time...Nothing has to happen to bring the Rapture to the front. It will get here when the last true believer has been saved. Rem when the Rapture event happens, there are no true believers on earth at that time. Are you going to be one of them.
 
  • Love
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
16,392
8,947
113
50
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
no, at the rapture event, all those who are dead will rise and be reunited with their bodies that are in Heaven...For on those part of His church will this cover. After these rise, the living at that time will be caught up in the air and their bodies will immediately be changed into the body ready for heaven. Millions of graves will be opened, and millions (estimated 70-100million in the USA, with much less in the rest of the world.) will disappear...This will immediately put the USA into a third party country. All the good/believers are gone...Only unbelievers are left behind.

There is only One Reusrrected body in Heaven = Lord Jesus Christ
JESUS is the only man who was resurrected and ascended to Heaven in Body Soul and Spirit

The EVENT is not the rapture!!!

The EVENT is the Second Coming of Christ by which HE resurrects all who have died in Faith in the Word

AFTER that EVENT, the remaining saints who are alive on earth will be caught-up/raptured and their physical bodies are transformed into Glorified Eternal Bodies

Follow the TRUTH which never lies = GOSPEL , 1 & 2nd Thessalonians , Revelation

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 

BobLynnPaul

New Member
Sep 26, 2025
9
1
3
67
Augusta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why don't you start a thread about how gambling and games of chance are blessings from "the lord"
I think this answers your extent of supporting that gambling is sinful. Nice try to deflect me. Since you don't appear to have anything of theological substance, I will conclude this thread here. I have put you on my Ignore list so I don't waste more time discussing a topic with someone who has no Theological training and can't formulate a response when you are asked to.
 

HealthyShape

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2025
1,827
673
113
Northeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Futurism is so messy and confused.

The great tribulation for Jerusalem and Judea happened before the coming of the Lord. And Christians could escape it - not by rapture, but by physical running away from Jerusalem and from Judea to mountains. The gathering to Christ was in His coming, not xyz years before.

Read the Bible in its context and do not glue together random verses from random places. Read whole Luke 21, whole Mark 13, whole Matthew 24.

1. Conflicts, earthquakes, famines (first happened in 37 AD, the most serious in 41 AD)
2. Persecution of Christians from Jews ("beaten in the synagogues")
3. Jerusalem surrounded by armies
4. The great tribulation for those who stayed in Judea/Jerusalem and the complete destruction of Jerusalem, no stone left on stone.
5. The coming of the Son of Man ("But in those days, after that tribulation....")
6. The gathering of the elect ("At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...and He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.")

This is the biblical chronology of events.
 
Last edited:

soberxp

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2025
2,631
907
113
43
Xi'an
m.youtube.com
Faith
Christian
Country
China
Gender
Male
Dear soberxp,

Please share the details of "I saw the return of Jesus Christ in 2008.10.10
Oh, that's a long story, I am so glad you are willing to hear about it.

I'll focus on the point. I don't want to talk about my privacy and secrets, but It is also closely related to the words of the Bible. I'll focus on the Gospel about the return of Jesus Christ.


When I first came into contact with the Bible in high school, one of my English teachers introduced me to a movie about the passion of Jesus. He was a man from Texas, watching the movie, I felt that Jesus was a different and great man than any others, And curious about his amazing abilities, I don't even doubt it, even though it's just a movie, After the movie, the English teacher pointed to the book of Bible and told me, You must read this book. The way he preached the gospel to me was so simple, there was no explanation.

After I left school and started working,I occasionally read the Bible in my spare time and wonder, does God really exist? Why doesn't God take care of the world if he exists? Now that I think about it, I was an agnostic, and I wasn't sure if God really existed.
(Now think about it, what a silly question.)

Later, I quit my previous job and wanted to work in Shanghai because there were more opportunities and higher wages. Then at home I relax, listen to music, surf the internet, do everything I think is interesting and happy, and then I didn't sleep or eat for seven days. I just drank water and kept surfing the internet and listening to music. My mother always asked me if I would eat, I said I was not hungry, I was very impatient, Then I saw my mother, like a robot, walking away, staring against the Wall for a while, when she returned to normal action, I saw a lot of blood in her eyes. I didn't dare tell her what had just happened,She doesn't know what she just did.

I loved listening to Linkin Park when they came out with a new album, and one of the songs was called "What I've done", When I heard this song, I was moved to cry, I was thinking What I've done,I thought I was a sinner, and I started to confess, At this time strange things happened,The wind was blowing in the room, and the wind was blowing around my body.(Now think of it, it was the coming of the Holy Spirit.) That night, I lay back in bed and didn't fall asleep, thinking about all kinds of things, Until the morning I gave myself a joke, laugh can not stop, laugh until the stomach pain, And then suddenly a song started around me. It was a song by Avril Lavigne. It wasn't a song from some stereo or music player. It comes from the air, the song called "girlfriend", It was Avril's voice singing, but the lyrics were slightly different"hey hey you you,I can be your girlfriend, no way, no way, thinking in a new way." When I heard the song, my nonstop laughter stopped. It was about six o'clock in the morning.

I didn't understand what was going on, so I wanted to see if I was hallucinating, So I asked my sleeping mother, I asked her if she heard a song playing loudly,she said "no."

I wanted to with my mother outside to see what was going on, but somehow she wouldn't let me go out of the house. I clearly saw her pupils turn into The upright pupil of a snake.
It only lasted a moment.

I had to go outside and see for myself.
When I came outside, I suddenly felt that there was going to be a disaster in the future, So I did some weird things for no reason,
I said to the security guard at the gate of our neighborhood: "Please open the door, the Fuhrer is coming."The security guard looked at me strangely and said impatiently from his drowsiness, " No. "Then I knelt down for him,I begged him to open the door.
This is 2007, and 2008 is the time for China to prepare for the Olympics.
It occurred to me that if all five people walked out of the gate, disaster could be avoided.
But I failed.

This whole series of weird behavior, I'm being treated like a psychopath, I don't know who called the mental hospital, I was forcibly sent to a mental rehabilitation center.

To make a long story short, it's a concentration camp, patients are not treated properly, doctors often show their violent tendencies, I shocked some patients just because they wanted to, and I got a taste of it.

After 15 days in the hospital, I was discharged from the hospital. The experience made me feel depressed. Ironically, my doctor's diagnosis included depression.

Time came in 2008 5.12, Sichuan Wenchuan Earthquake, magnitude 8.8. A strong earthquake was felt across much of China,
I was in a province adjacent to the epicenter. At that time, I was on the 24th floor. The violent shaking in the high-rise made it impossible for us to walk. The tremors were so intense that I'm convinced if the earthquake had lasted any longer, I would have died.

Then the time came on October 10, 2008, I still remember that the weather was still like summer, But it's already autumn.

I'm still depressed because of the mental hospital thing, I was in my own house, I went out to the balcony, There was a fig tree on the balcony. I didn't know it was a fig. I looked up at the sky, maybe to make me feel better. I saw a Chinese long in the clouds, a huge head, a huge body, all made up of clouds, very realistic, Not the abstract kind.

I wonder, isn't this a legendary creature? How could I see this? One of its eyes is the sun, which is just the position of the sun in the eyes. I remember it was the midday sun.That means 12 noon. The clouds are changing, and this long is staring at me, giving me the feeling that the look says, " you little guy. "
I kept watching long disappear into the sky and turn back into a normal cloud.I went back to my room for a while and thought, " Shall I go out again? on the balcony to see what's going on... "

So I quickly went to the balcony, looked at the clouds in the sky, long appeared again, So I took out my phone to take a picture of long,
When I pressed the button for the photo, I saw the long look angry and angry, then change from cloud white to blood red and disappear.

( There were no smartphones back then, I was using a Motorola phone, no cable, and I did once have a picture of long, Then I took a picture with my digital camera and uploaded it to Facebook, where now I couldn't log in to soberxp. Facebook seems to have deleted the photo, but later I angrily destroyed my phone and photo, and now I have no photos left.Because I found out that even if I took out a picture of long, no one would believe me.)

I was scared. I was frightened by the angry look. I felt as if I had killed it.

Then a group of low dark clouds from the west quickly floating, dark clouds pressure city feeling, the clouds are very low, filled the sky in front of me,Looking into the sky,heavy clouds and low down to surface ,lights looks dark,
Suddenly clouds opened a hole in the sky .Bigger and bigger ,Became Perfect circle ,could see the sky very blue....There was a white cloud of point at the center of the Perfect circle ,Bigger and bigger ,Became A huge white cross/crucifix appeared before me,
Then Jesus appeared before the cross; his gorgeous clothes were nothing like this world,but i didn't see the face ,the face is blue sky , Posture is like Jesus statue at Brazil,I'd rather repeat it again,his gorgeous clothes were nothing like this world,Clothes hung over the feet,Sleeve design is perfect,Hairstyle are consistent with what we think 。saints slowly appeared on his left side of Jesus ,Smaller than Jesus,The size of the palm of Jesus' hand, Jesus Christ looked like a Nephile giant,The way they cross fingers in prayer.Angel and two wings ,The number is about 12 to 30,maybe 24,Confused with men or women , feels like one flesh. When I look at them like men, they look like women. When I look at them like women, they look like men.

I was short-sighted, but when Jesus Christ appeared, my eyes were like binoculars, I could see every detail clearly, They are also images of clouds. When the sight disappeared, the sky in front of me was completely clear and turned into a blue sky without a cloud.

Then Other vision showed up ,I saw in the sky, Pyramid, warriors ,old chinese firearms,etc。。。。。 It's all shows with the form of clouds as movie.

After that,In the western sky,
I saw a Naked women ,Slowly emerge in front of me,Greek hairstyle,Very beautiful,She has a beautiful profile. the view of flank of her ,hard to tell.She was lying in the sky,I saw her slowly Pregnancy,Don't know why I was slightly uncontrollable kneeling down .

When all these finished,Time has reached to 3-5 p.m.I just feel a few minutes 。( I didn't dare to take pictures because I had been intimidated by long, and I had a vague feeling that I shouldn't. ) After the miracle, I am still short-sighted.

Then one day, Jesus suddenly asked me, " You STILL want to watch?"

I was completely confused by the question.
Now I feel like he was asking about your feelings out of nowhere.


This is what I wrote many years ago in other forums.At that time, English was still very poor. I couldn't express many things in English.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Azim

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
11,458
6,981
113
66
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Gender
Male
Rather than this instead---any and all man-made temples became obsolete when He died and then the moment He rose, therefore, the holy place meant in Matthew 24:15 can't be meaning a man-made temple, period.

And so what if I can't explain what the following might look like if not meaning in the literal sense--But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day(Matthew 24:20). But guess what? I also can't explain what the fleeing recorded in Revelation 18:4 might look like either, since I also do not take that in the literal sense.

Actually, in regards to Matthew 24:20, I don't need to explain anything to begin with. Christ's death and resurrection already explains it, that the holy place meant in verse 15 can't be meaning a man-made temple. Therefore, Matthew 24:20 can't be meaning in the literal sense unless it is a flat out lie that Christ's death and resurrection made any and all man-made temples obsolete, therefore, no man-made temple can be the holy place from that point on, ever again--- not 40 years later nor 2000 years later.
I had to shorten your post or I could not post as it is over 10000

If the Old Covenant passed away (it did), and God's true temple is now His people, (believers in Christ), then any man made temples are not the true temple of God, but men will still call such a building the temple of God and consider it a holy place.

If there is a rebuilt Jewish temple someday, God won't be dwelling in it. But Satan will be there, declare he is God and demand to be worshipped. Then Christ will come and destroy Satan and that place at His appearing.

Which kinds of things can be found in 2 Thessalonians 2.
No Christians should be pleased, happy or support the Jews rebuilding their temple of God, it will be an evil place where Satan's people will worship him and not God. Promoting a renewed Judaism to rule this world is a dream of the Jews for thousands of years.
The only thing to rejoice in is that it would be a sign of the times of our soon deliverance from that evil age.

Luke 21 is a parallel teaching of Matthew 24, ask yourself, why do people not like to quote this?
It definitely was a time of great distress and wrath. Tribulations against the church did not end after 70 AD.
I don't read in scripture about things getting better, just that evil men and deceivers get worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, until the end.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days, is the return of Christ and the rapture.
First came the destruction of the Jewish nation, but the tribulations did not stop, desolations are decreed till the end.

Daniel 7
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [c]be cut off, but not for Himself;
------------- BREAK HERE, Christ above, then the Romans below, the prince spoken of is the prince of this world, Satan.

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
----------- BREAK HERE, Desolations are still ongoing, our warfare is not carnal but spiritual, the end of what war?

Then he shall confirm a [d]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
------------ BREAK HERE, Christ did the above, below is the ongoing war of Satan and his allies against God, the judgment against the world

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [e]desolate.”

The above is a prophetic mix of Christ and 'antichrist'
The consummation poured out on the desolate, speaks of final destruction of who?
Satan, those of Satan, this evil unrighteous world.
The consummation is when Christ returns to judge the world in righteousness on the Day appointed by the Father.
We actually get this same flow in Luke 21 until Christ returns.

The Destruction of Jerusalem​

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”


The true Israel of God rejoiced that Christ came, and did these things

Daniel 7
24 “Seventy [b]weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
[c]To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint [d]the Most Holy.

25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [e]street shall be built again, and the [f]wall,
Even in troublesome times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christ correctly said in John 8 regarding the unbelieving Jews that they did not worship God or were even of God

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But these Jews were very unhappy about Christ.
Today's Jews, also not of God, if they build another Jewish Temple, still have the Devil as their Father, and desire to do His will.
Nothing has changed in 2000 years
Such a thing would point to a soon coming of the end of the world and Day of judgment, which in my mind is a good thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 8
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
 

HealthyShape

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2025
1,827
673
113
Northeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
First came the destruction of the Jewish nation, but the tribulations did not stop, desolations are decreed till the end.
If you look at my post #611, do you insert thousands of years gap between #4 and #5?

If so, where do you see it in the words of Jesus?
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
11,458
6,981
113
66
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Gender
Male
Ongoing trials and tribulations coming against the church, supporting scriptures, and the remedy is the return of Christ.
That is when the people of God get relief from trials and tribulations, which have not stopped yet.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

1 Peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been [c]grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not [d]seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 13
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David in NJ

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
11,458
6,981
113
66
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Gender
Male
If you look at my post #611, do you insert thousands of years gap between #4 and #5?

If so, where do you see it in the words of Jesus?
Well, honestly the tribulation has not stopped yet against the church of Christ.
'Immediately after the tribulation of those days'
Jesus is referring to the end of the age-world, not the end of the Romans destruction of Jerusalem.

Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The world has remained in tribulation to this very day.
There is no peace for the wicked.
Jerusalem is still trampled by Gentiles, so the tribulation is still here.
The time of the gentiles ends with the return of Christ
 
  • Like
Reactions: David in NJ

HealthyShape

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2025
1,827
673
113
Northeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, honestly the tribulation has not stopped yet against the church of Christ.

'Immediately after the tribulation of those days'
Jesus is referring to the end of the age-world, not the end of the Romans destruction of Jerusalem.

Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The world has remained in tribulation to this very day.
There is no peace for the wicked.
Jerusalem is still trampled by Gentiles, so the tribulation is still here.
The time of the gentiles ends with the return of Christ
And you are building all this just on the sentence that Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until their times are fulfilled? Don´t you think it is weak? Jesus makes no indication there will be any thousands of years period between the events.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
11,458
6,981
113
66
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Gender
Male
And you are building all this just on the sentence that Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until their times are fulfilled? Don´t you think it is weak? Jesus makes no indication there will be any thousands of years period between the events.
Do you really think Christ has returned?
Or do you think Christ returns several times?

2 Thess 1 teaches us the church gains rest from trials and tribulations coming at it from the people of the world when Christ returns in flaming fire.

Let's be realistic here.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
16,392
8,947
113
50
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
And you are building all this just on the sentence that Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until their times are fulfilled? Don´t you think it is weak? Jesus makes no indication there will be any thousands of years period between the events.
Yes, the LORD did indicate a very long period of time BEFORE His Second Coming.

It is in the Gospel and specifically in Matthew ch24 and the Book of Daniel