Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Behold]

The wisdom of God is greater than the folly of men

Notice this verse.. from Romans....

"""""and all are justified freely by God's Grace....= through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.""


Now, who are the "ALL", who are Justified freely?

These are ALL the Born again, who are the "Many shall be made righteous"... as Romans 5 teaches.

Notice """"Made Righteous"""".

That means "Made Righteous".........

How? = "Through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ" , based on His "obedience".

Now....How did this redemption come by Jesus Christ". ?

A.) On The Cross., where Jesus became the sin of the world., being "obedient" unto death.

Notice again.....>>"Made Righteous"...... as that explain how a person becomes Righteous before God.

The born again has been "MADE Righteous"..... having received from GOD...the 'imputed righteousness" that is "The Gift of Righteousness"...

Now circling back to the beginning ........we read that "Abraham believed God, and it was "counted" unto Him. = (imputed) as RIGHTEOUSESS".

And why did God impute, or charge righteousness to Abraham?.. Its because God "counted Abrhams Faith as Righteousness"..........So, God imputed literal rightesousness to Abraham.
Paul teaches this as God's "GRACE.. through Faith".

Now, notice also what Paul teaches......regarding a BELIEVER....

= Paul establishes this doctrine of """imputed righteousness""" for the Believer, and teaches... "God imputeth righteousness without WORKS".... (Romans 4:8)... and then states it again like this..

= Romans 4:24... "but for US also. (the born again)...to whom it (righteousness) shall be IMPUTED... if we believe""""

So, the lesson here is very simple.......as Paul is detailing His Gospel of : "Justification by faith".

1.) A believer is "FREELY Justified" and that is becasue SALVATON is a GIFT.... "The Gift of Salvation."

2.) The believer has RECEIVED from God = "Righteousness",. and "not of works".....and that is because God's righteousness is received by the believer, as "THE GIFT of Righteousness", that is the "imputed righteousness".

3.) Having now """FREELY RECEIVED"" God's Justification, ""without works"", the believer is"" MADE RIGHTEOUS".. forever, and this is all based on : "GOD's GRACE".

A.) Welcome to : ""THe GIFT of Salvation".

= God gives the believer eternal forgiveness of Sin, and imputed righteousness, as a "GIFT"... that is based completely on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross... or as Romans 5 teaches.. "by one man's obedience, many (all believers) shall be = Made Righteous"..

 

[Episkopos]

Notice this verse.. from Romans....

"""""and all are justified freely by God's Grace....= through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.""


Now, who are the "ALL", who are Justified freely?

These are ALL the Born again, who are the "Many shall be made righteous"... as Romans 5 teaches.

Notice """"Made Righteous"""".

That means "Made Righteous".........

How? = "Through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ" , based on His "obedience".

Now....How did this redemption come by Jesus Christ". ?

A.) On The Cross., where Jesus became the sin of the world., being "obedient" unto death.

Notice again.....>>"Made Righteous"...... as that explain how a person becomes Righteous before God.

The born again has been "MADE Righteous"..... having received from GOD...the 'imputed righteousness" that is "The Gift of Righteousness"...

Now circling back to the beginning ........we read that "Abraham believed God, and it was "counted" unto Him. = (imputed) as RIGHTEOUSESS".

And why did God impute, or charge righteousness to Abraham?.. Its because God "counted Abrhams Faith as Righteousness"..........So, God imputed literal rightesousness to Abraham.
Paul teaches this as God's "GRACE.. through Faith".

Now, notice also what Paul teaches......regarding a BELIEVER....

= Paul establishes this doctrine of """imputed righteousness""" for the Believer, and teaches... "God imputeth righteousness without WORKS".... (Romans 4:8)... and then states it again like this..

= Romans 4:24... "but for US also. (the born again)...to whom it (righteousness) shall be IMPUTED... if we believe""""

So, the lesson here is very simple.......as Paul is detailing His Gospel of : "Justification by faith".

1.) A believer is "FREELY Justified" and that is becasue SALVATON is a GIFT.... "The Gift of Salvation."

2.) The believer has RECEIVED from God = "Righteousness",. and "not of works".....and that is because God's righteousness is received by the believer, as "THE GIFT of Righteousness", that is the "imputed righteousness".

3.) Having now """FREELY RECEIVED"" God's Justification, ""without works"", the believer is"" MADE RIGHTEOUS".. forever, and this is all based on : "GOD's GRACE".

A.) Welcome to : ""THe GIFT of Salvation".

= God gives the believer eternal forgiveness of Sin, and imputed righteousness, as a "GIFT"... that is based completely on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross... or as Romans 5 teaches.. "by one man's obedience, many (all believers) shall be = Made Righteous"..

All these things are true...but these things can ONLY be said of those who walk in resurrection life without sin...not just the ones who are born of the Spirit but also who abide in Christ, to overcome as He also overcame.

You can't read bible verses with self-interest. If you seek to save your life you will lose it. You are fooled into believing something untrue about YOURSELF because you are looking to justify yourself by claiming to be justified

And you don't understand either the gospel or the kingdom of God.

Righteousness is about DOING even if a person can be justified INITIALLY by faith.

Many will NOT learn to be righteous subsequent to regeneration and be cast away. Many will bury their talent. Many will seek to be perfected by vain philosophies. Many will claim to be righteous whereas they do INIQUITY.

The kingdom of God is like a net that catches all kinds of people. Both wicked AND righteous. These are in the net due to God's grace and mercy. But many will never learn righteousness and be rejected. Only the actual righteous are preserved. The rest will be cast away. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[marks]

How could anyone see it any differently? If we could be saved by works then the Lord would never have had to be crucified. The works we do are a result of our faith. I have been pretty clear on this being my position in a number of posts. As a result I saw Dan's "yes" or "no" demand as superfluous.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. From a few of your posts I wasn't so sure, but I'm happy to know this of you!

How can others see it differently? When they deny the imputation of God's righteousness to us, then we have to produce our own righteousness, and we have the remainder of our lives to produce enough that God will actually "let us in". There are variations on this theme. We do see it preached here.

Much love!

 

[ShineTheLight]

All these things are true...but these things can ONLY be said of those who walk in resurrection life without sin...not just the ones who are born of the Spirit but also who abide in Christ, to overcome as He also overcame.

You can't read bible verses with self-interest. If you seek to save your life you will lose it. You are fooled into believing something untrue about YOURSELF because you are looking to justify yourself by claiming to be justified

And you don't understand either the gospel or the kingdom of God.

Righteousness is about DOING even if a person can be justified INITIALLY by faith.

Many will NOT learn to be righteous subsequent to regeneration and be cast away. Many will bury their talent. Many will seek to be perfected by vain philosophies. Many will claim to be righteous whereas they do INIQUITY.

The kingdom of God is like a net that catches all kinds of people. Both wicked AND righteous. These are in the net due to God's grace and mercy. But many will never learn righteousness and be rejected. Only the actual righteous are preserved. The rest will be cast away. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The simple who keeps loving their simplicity are going to be turned away and it slays them (Proverbs 1:22-32). Their simplicity will do them in. They won't walk in God's statutes because of that, and will end up being on the side of the foolish virgins spoken about in the parable of the 10 virgins.

 

[shepherdsword]

Notice this verse.. from Romans....

"""""and all are justified freely by God's Grace....= through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.""


Now, who are the "ALL", who are Justified freely?

These are ALL the Born again, who are the "Many shall be made righteous"... as Romans 5 teaches.

Notice """"Made Righteous"""".

That means "Made Righteous".........

How? = "Through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ" , based on His "obedience".

Now....How did this redemption come by Jesus Christ". ?

A.) On The Cross., where Jesus became the sin of the world., being "obedient" unto death.

Notice again.....>>"Made Righteous"...... as that explain how a person becomes Righteous before God.

The born again has been "MADE Righteous"..... having received from GOD...the 'imputed righteousness" that is "The Gift of Righteousness"...

Now circling back to the beginning ........we read that "Abraham believed God, and it was "counted" unto Him. = (imputed) as RIGHTEOUSESS".

And why did God impute, or charge righteousness to Abraham?.. Its because God "counted Abrhams Faith as Righteousness"..........So, God imputed literal rightesousness to Abraham.
Paul teaches this as God's "GRACE.. through Faith".

Now, notice also what Paul teaches......regarding a BELIEVER....

= Paul establishes this doctrine of """imputed righteousness""" for the Believer, and teaches... "God imputeth righteousness without WORKS".... (Romans 4:8)... and then states it again like this..

= Romans 4:24... "but for US also. (the born again)...to whom it (righteousness) shall be IMPUTED... if we believe""""

So, the lesson here is very simple.......as Paul is detailing His Gospel of : "Justification by faith".

1.) A believer is "FREELY Justified" and that is becasue SALVATON is a GIFT.... "The Gift of Salvation."

2.) The believer has RECEIVED from God = "Righteousness",. and "not of works".....and that is because God's righteousness is received by the believer, as "THE GIFT of Righteousness", that is the "imputed righteousness".

3.) Having now """FREELY RECEIVED"" God's Justification, ""without works"", the believer is"" MADE RIGHTEOUS".. forever, and this is all based on : "GOD's GRACE".

A.) Welcome to : ""THe GIFT of Salvation".

= God gives the believer eternal forgiveness of Sin, and imputed righteousness, as a "GIFT"... that is based completely on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross... or as Romans 5 teaches.. "by one man's obedience, many (all believers) shall be = Made Righteous"..

Can you just post in regular type? The way you format your posts looks funny

 

[Episkopos]

Thank you for clarifying that for me. From a few of your posts I wasn't so sure, but I'm happy to know this of you!

How can others see it differently? When they deny the imputation of God's righteousness to us,

No one can be imputed with God's righteousness....because we are not as righteous as He is. Simple truth. Righteousness is about DOING. Al of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags compared to His.

But we can be justified by either faith OR works. That's what is taught in the bible. The reason that Paul stresses faith is that that is the only way into the higher walk in holiness. Only the faith OF Christ gives us access to that level of grace. No one can do anything to attain a higher walk...it is by grace through faith.

So then...for clarification

1: To inherit life and be seen as righteous by God: Either by works or by faith.

2. To ENTER into eternal life NOW is ONLY by faith....the faith OF Christ.


Of course I will be misquoted about this...just as the bible is misquoted.

then we have to produce our own righteousness, and we have the remainder of our lives to produce enough that God will actually "let us in". There are variations on this theme. We do see it preached here.

Much love!

We produce obedience. God decides if He wants to impute righteousness to it or not. A lot of people here are imputing righteousness to themselves...a bad idea for either righteousness or holiness. (and especially to impute God's righteousness to oneself)

 

[Episkopos]

Can you just post in regular type? The way you format your posts looks funny

I think all his posts are funny the use of one type or another notwithstanding.

 

[shepherdsword]

All these things are true...but these things can ONLY be said of those who walk in resurrection life without sin...not just the ones who are born of the Spirit but also who abide in Christ, to overcome as He also overcame.

You can't read bible verses with self-interest. If you seek to save your life you will lose it. You are fooled into believing something untrue about YOURSELF because you are looking to justify yourself by claiming to be justified

And you don't understand either the gospel or the kingdom of God.

Righteousness is about DOING even if a person can be justified INITIALLY by faith.

Many will NOT learn to be righteous subsequent to regeneration and be cast away. Many will bury their talent. Many will seek to be perfected by vain philosophies. Many will claim to be righteous whereas they do INIQUITY.

The kingdom of God is like a net that catches all kinds of people. Both wicked AND righteous. These are in the net due to God's grace and mercy. But many will never learn righteousness and be rejected. Only the actual righteous are preserved. The rest will be cast away. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That's some heavy stuff man....it makes me have fear...and I hope it's not just a fearful looking to judgement. I mean, who then can be saved?

 

[Episkopos]

Notice this verse.. from Romans....

"""""and all are justified freely by God's Grace....= through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.""


Now, who are the "ALL", who are Justified freely?

These are ALL the Born again, who are the "Many shall be made righteous"... as Romans 5 teaches.

Notice """"Made Righteous"""".

That means "Made Righteous".........

How? = "Through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ" , based on His "obedience".

Now....How did this redemption come by Jesus Christ". ?

A.) On The Cross., where Jesus became the sin of the world., being "obedient" unto death.

Notice again.....>>"Made Righteous"...... as that explain how a person becomes Righteous before God.

The born again has been "MADE Righteous"..... having received from GOD...the 'imputed righteousness" that is "The Gift of Righteousness"...

Now circling back to the beginning ........we read that "Abraham believed God, and it was "counted" unto Him. = (imputed) as RIGHTEOUSESS".

And why did God impute, or charge righteousness to Abraham?.. Its because God "counted Abrhams Faith as Righteousness"..........So, God imputed literal rightesousness to Abraham.
Paul teaches this as God's "GRACE.. through Faith".

Now, notice also what Paul teaches......regarding a BELIEVER....

= Paul establishes this doctrine of """imputed righteousness""" for the Believer, and teaches... "God imputeth righteousness without WORKS".... (Romans 4:8)... and then states it again like this..

= Romans 4:24... "but for US also. (the born again)...to whom it (righteousness) shall be IMPUTED... if we believe""""

So, the lesson here is very simple.......as Paul is detailing His Gospel of : "Justification by faith".

1.) A believer is "FREELY Justified" and that is becasue SALVATON is a GIFT.... "The Gift of Salvation."

2.) The believer has RECEIVED from God = "Righteousness",. and "not of works".....and that is because God's righteousness is received by the believer, as "THE GIFT of Righteousness", that is the "imputed righteousness".

3.) Having now """FREELY RECEIVED"" God's Justification, ""without works"", the believer is"" MADE RIGHTEOUS".. forever, and this is all based on : "GOD's GRACE".

A.) Welcome to : ""THe GIFT of Salvation".

= God gives the believer eternal forgiveness of Sin, and imputed righteousness, as a "GIFT"... that is based completely on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross... or as Romans 5 teaches.. "by one man's obedience, many (all believers) shall be = Made Righteous"..

What is the motivation behind wanting to impute God's righteousness to yourself?

 

[Episkopos]

That's some heavy stuff man....it makes me have fear...and I hope it's not just a fearful looking to judgement. I mean, who then can be saved?

Exactly! Now you are sounding like the apostles. That IS the conclusion one must come to...this is impossible! But with God ALL things are possible. I can do all things through Christ and His grace. Now all I need is faith. :)

I think most are unable to read the bible as written...they have to put a spin on it. Recently I posted the parable of the kingdom as being like a NET. Someone responded that it is the WORLD that is like a net..... NOT the kingdom. It's like a big surprise that outer darkness is for believers who don't learn righteousness...being fully smug (they call that smugness "assurance") in their salvation status...quoting verses that are NOT about them.

 

[marks]

No one can be imputed with God's righteousness....because we are not as righteous as He is. Simple truth. Righteousness is about DOING. Al of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags compared to His.

But we can be justified by either faith OR works. That's what is taught in the bible. The reason that Paul stresses faith is that that is the only way into the higher walk in holiness. Only the faith OF Christ gives us access to that level of grace. No one can do anything to attain a higher walk...it is by grace through faith.

So then...for clarification

1: To inherit life and be seen as righteous by God: Either by works or by faith.

2. To ENTER into eternal life NOW is ONLY by faith....the faith OF Christ.


Of course I will be misquoted about this...just as the bible is misquoted.

We produce obedience. God decides if He wants to impute righteousness to it or not. A lot of people here are imputing righteousness to themselves...a bad idea for either righteousness or holiness. (and especially to impute God's righteousness to oneself)

I only wish you understood these things better, and could accept the Bible's teaching on this.

Works do not justify you before God, because He knows the truth about you, and whether or not you have been baptized into Christ, crucified with Him, or not.

That God imputes His righteousness to men who believe is very plain in Scripture. No amount of your works will make you righteous in God's sight, because no amount of what you consider "good works" will wipe out what God considers evil works. You must be forgiven, you must be born again, or you have no life in you.

Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

Exactly! Now you are sounding like the apostles. That IS the conclusion one must come to...this is impossible. But with God ALL things are possible. I can do all things through Christ and His grace. Now all I need is faith. :)

I think most are unable to read the bible as written...they have to put a spin on it. Recently I posted the parable of the kingdom as being like a NET. Someone responded that it is the WORLD that is like a net..... NOT the kingdom. It's like a big surprise that outer darkness is for believers who don't learn righteousness...but a fully smug in their salvation status...quoting verses that are NOT about them.

I believe Lord....help my unbelief!

 

[shepherdsword]

. Recently I posted the parable of the kingdom as being like a NET. Someone responded that it is the WORLD that is like a net..... NOT the kingdom. It's like a big surprise that outer darkness is for believers who don't learn righteousness...being fully smug (they call that smugness "assurance") in their salvation status...quoting verses that are NOT about them.

Yeah, I saw that. I actually called him out on it but deleted the post because you beat me to it.

 

[shepherdsword]

We could be doing the same thing the Pharisees and those that killed the prophets did. People slam Epi...but I don't think they are really hearing him. While we spilt hairs about doctrinal accuracy we miss the greater picture. Can't see the forest for the trees. Jesus was put to death for healing on the sabbath. A strict doctrine of the religious leaders since the return from babylon. They understood the exile time was timed to their disobedience about the land sabbaths. When they returned, they over corrected and killed God himself because He didn't fit into their over adjusted sabbath doctrine. I see this pattern re-emerging

 

[marks]

We could be doing the same thing the Pharisees and those that killed the prophets did. People slam Epi...but I don't think they are reallyb hearing him. While we spilt hairs about doctrinal accuracy we miss the greater picture. Can't see the forest for the trees. Jesus was put to death for healing on the sabbath. A strict doctrine of the religious leaders since the return from babylon. They understood the exile time was timed to their disobedience about the land sabbaths. When they returned, they over corrected and killed God himself because He didn't fit into their over adjusted doctrine. I see this pattern re-emerging

I've known this guy for a long time online. Like, 15 years, something like that. This isn't a forest/trees thing. It's a matter of fundamental soteriological differences. Not to mention the personal character displays that belie Christian maturity.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I only wish you understood these things better, and could accept the Bible's teaching on this.

I do wish you understood the times and God's judgments on these things. I don't know you, but I treat others as I would want to be treated if I was as confused as I see so many are on these matters. And the wanky translations don't help.

Works do not justify you before God, because He knows the truth about you, and whether or not you have been baptized into Christ, crucified with Him, or not.

That's not a biblical way of thinking. Works justify the righteous. What you say goes exactly against the bible narrative. I have posted dozens of verses about how righteousness in ACTION justifies people. Righteousness is about DOING what is right.

That God imputes His righteousness to men who believe is very plain in Scripture.

No. You are confusing a religious opinion with the faith OF Christ that gets people translated into Zion....So you are trying to understand the bible as if it was a religious book rather than a spiritual one.

No amount of your works will make you righteous in God's sight, because no amount of what you consider "good works" will wipe out what God considers evil works.

That's not how righteousness works. You are confusing righteousness and holiness. There is no sin at all in holiness. But righteous people sin because of the weakness of the flesh.

You must be forgiven,

On judgment day God will declare mercy on some and condemnation on others. To be forgiven right now has no real bearing on future judgment. It depends what we DO after that. Remember the servant who was forgiven 1,000 talents...how did that work out for him? Care to make up a theology based on it? Or would you go with....you reap as you sow???

you must be born again, or you have no life in you.

Unless you are born again and receive that sample you can't know what you are being called to. Now, sell all you have and buy the field...surrender all to enter into kingdom life. Then claim the high claims of Paul.

Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Much love!

The faith OF Christ.....how Peter was able to do the impossible...walk on water. That I might KNOW HIM and the POWER of His resurrection. Read your own verses....Everything I try telling you guys...but you are both deaf and blind to the truth...only focusing on the part of the bible you need to justify yourself with. A shame!

 

[ProDeo]

Go back a few thousand years...BEFORE the corruption of the church into a religious system.

I will go with Biblehub (recognized translations) and not with your knowledge of ancient Greek.

 

[marks]

but you are both deaf and blind to the truth...only focusing on the part of the bible you need to justify yourself with. A shame!

This is your constant reply. But it takes you no closer to truth. That's the shame!

You write your words denigrating my life in Christ as though it were a sham, yet you have no such knowledge of me, only your slander. Something else that has continued over the years! That's a shames!

Who is it here that is trying to justify themself? You say this again and again, but it's just smokescreen.

It is you who is revealed in your words, not others.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

I wonder that there is anyone who would presume to unilaterally re-translate the Bible. Even if he were a Greek scholar, which I don't think is even the case here.

It's still the same old epi, nothing has changed, amigo was right.

We are pretenders, fleshy, we don't no God, etc. etc.

Edit, update, the latest one : both deaf and blind to the truth.

The so called holy walk in Zion.

 

[ProDeo]

And your claim that God is unrighteous is unfounded.

She never said that.

It's what you do epi

Falsely accuser of the brethren.