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Ronald David Bruno

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It's been 14 days and it hasn't happened yet.
Did you have poor grades in math? The Sept. 23rd + 14 days comes to Oct. 7
So a couple mor days after that and I will call it. Things are stiring up with this new Peace Treaty, it simply is another piece of the puzzle. Sometimes we think we recognize a piece, try to fit it in and it just doesn't fit, so we discard it and look for another. The big picture is forming ... lots of pieces.
 

HealthyShape

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The Gospel is the Kingdom of God.
No, where did you get that idea? The gospel means literally "a good message". It is something that is being preached and heard. And when somebody believes it, only then they are entering the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (R 14:17).

The culmination of ages is dependent upon the Gospel.
The culmination of ages was dependent of many signs and events and the gospel being preached to nations was one of them.
 
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PinSeeker

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1. I think there is enough evidence to prove that the book of Revelation was written before 70 AD
Okay. Yeah, I disagree, but okay. Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, so to speak... What you say here seems non sequitur. but fair enough.

2. I do not believe that the faith of the first church for Jesus to come in their lifes failed. Their inspiration would need to fail in quite a huge thing. If they were wrong in eschatology, what else were they wrong in?
And this is another non sequitur to me... Faith, by definition (Hebrews 11:1) is God's assurance of salvation, and conviction given by the Holy Spirit. Did some think Jesus would return, based on what He Himself said, in their lifetime? Well... maybe... and maybe not... we don't know.

Do you have a view that they were not inspired?
What the gospel writers and Paul, and Peter, and James... all the New Testament writers... wrote and that is in the New Testament was breathed in by the Holy Spirit. Which I think you to be in agreement with, based on your question here.

No offense intended, of course, but all of this seems like a total tangent to what was being discussed here...

Grace and peace to you.
 

HealthyShape

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Prophecy and how it pans out is mysterious. We are all uncertain of exactly how things will pan out and so we speculate, postulate, try to fit the pieces if the puzzle in place.
Whether you realize it or not, the Day of the Lord may be sooner than you think.
Pre-Mil ( mostly Pre-Tribbers) speak of a Peace Treaty that is a significant piece of the puzzle. And so when they say Peace and Safety, sudden destruction happens.
Will it? I don't freaking know ... I'm speculating. If you are an Amillennial, you'll reject everything about this end time puzzle. If you want to retain your health and stay in good shape, you'll have to try harder to understand the times we are living in.
I am saying you are not "just reporting". You are building the case and you defend it.
 

HealthyShape

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Okay. Yeah, I disagree, but okay. Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, so to speak... What you say here seems non sequitur. but fair enough.
You said "he wrote that around the year 95 A.D. or so...". And I said there is enough of evidence the book was written before 70 AD. How is it non sequitur? It was related directly to your claim.

And this is another non sequitur to me... Faith, by definition (Hebrews 11:1) is God's assurance of salvation, and conviction given by the Holy Spirit. Did some think Jesus would return, based on what He Himself said, in their lifetime? Well... maybe... and maybe not... we don't know.
Again, this is nothing even remotely close to non sequitur. The 1st church believed and taught that Jesus will come back during their life time, they even wrote it in the Scriptures. If you do not believe they were right, then you need to have some liberal view of inspiration. I am not saying such view must be wrong, I am just stating it as a logical conclusion.

What the gospel writers and Paul, and Peter, and James... all the New Testament writers... wrote and that is in the New Testament was breathed in by the Holy Spirit. Which I think you to be in agreement with, based on your question here.
In that case you should believe that Jesus came back in their life time, no matter what today's tradition or churches say.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

"You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21:31

"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)

"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11


"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51


"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2

... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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I am saying you are not "just reporting". You are building the case and you defend it.
How can I build a case about Trump/ Netanyahu Peace Treaty? It's news ... if you're not interested don't read what I post. I don't know what's going to happen. My opinion is that you can't trust terrorists. I remember a police officer saying that," "You can't negotiate with terrorists." And though Trump is already patting himself on the back for the greatest achievement of all time, it may go south and this 1 Thes. 5:3 prophecy will become real ... and maybe that will open your eyes? That is another sign of the Day of the Lord.
So again, try to discern the times. It's not easy, we make mistakes, but we try. Jesus left signs; but if you choose to ignor them and just love your life, go ahead.
 

HealthyShape

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How can I build a case about Trump/ Netanyahu Peace Treaty? It's news ..
Come on, do not tell me that you do not understand. You are building the case that these are "the last days".

You report some event and then surround it by your eschatology and fear mongering, quoting verses... and then you say "I am not saying it will happen, I am just reporting". No, you are not just reporting. You are spreading and defending your eschatological case (and so you are also responsible for all its failures).
 
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PinSeeker

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Since you cannot read...
Ah, so insulting my intelligence now, which is always kind of a last resort, I guess...

it is not worth the effort for me to get into this to far.
You mean "too far"... See what I did there? <smile> Well, I think the discussion would be worthwhile, but fair enough.

The Apostle Paul gave marriage up as a concession to prevent sin.
Yeah disagree. Generally speaking, Paul did not condemn an institution initiated by God Himself. Marriage is a calling from God, and some people are not called in that way. And I think that with Paul... Paul was the first great missionary, and God called him to do that and used him for that purpose, perhaps even calling him away from the institution of marriage because that would have given him responsibilities as a husband and maybe a father that would have kept him from being the minister of the Gospel abroad that he was... and therefore not living out the purpose which God obviously prepared him to fulfill. And, in that passage in 1 Corinthians 7, Grailhunter, Paul is very explicit in saying, "Live as you are called."

He talks very little about marriage but he did point out that marriage can be a distraction from God.
Ah, you know, this is neither here nor there, really, but just concerning what Paul says about marriage, I think we can really say that, yes, maybe he talks little about it, but in what he does say, he says a lot about it. <smile> But yes, I agree; like a lot of other things, it can cause ~ or prevent ~ sin, depending on internal and external circumstances and how God uses it ~ or doesn't use it ~ in our lives.

Grace and peace to you.
 
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Scott Downey

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People talk about selling their car and stuff because of the rapture to happen on the 23-24.

I don't even comprehend their minds as to selling anything, you can't take it with you.


A man who sold his car because he believed the ‘end of the world was nigh’ has issued a full apology after the day of the ‘Rapture’ never materialized.

Tilahun Desalegn was just one of thousands of people preparing for judgment day, and believing he would no longer need ‘worldly goods’, including his car, decided to sell the motor as part of his preparations.

The Rapture was due to happen on September 23/24 this year.

‘Car is gone just like the Brides of Christ will be in September,’ posted Desalegn, who describes himself as ‘a prophet and evangelist to nations’ in his bio.

Desalegn is one of thousands of people who have taken the opportunity to share their interpretation of the supposed word of God online, and he has been posting videos on the topic since June.

The devout Christian was so convinced that Judgement Day was on the horizon that he sold his five-year-old car.
 
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PinSeeker

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You said "he wrote that around the year 95 A.D. or so...". And I said there is enough of evidence the book was written before 70 AD. How is it non sequitur? It was related directly to your claim.
I said that in response to your having said, "the events that were supposed to happen in the first century are not for us today to wait for them to happen." Now, maybe I misunderstood that comment, but that comment, to me, was tantamount to saying, in effect, that nothing John wrote in Revelation was relevant to his original readers of the day in which he wrote, nor is it really relevant to us today. At least that's how it looks on its face, taken at face value.

But you believe John to have written Revelation prior to 70 A.D. Well, I think we can both agree that it was written in the first century... <smile> ...and even in the latter half of the first century. So to have some kind of discussion about whether it was written around 70 or around 90 is, really, a non sequitur, at least insofar as whether it was relevant to his readers 2000 years ago or us today (or anyone in between or after). Beside the point, a tangent... maybe it would have been better to put it that way. <smile>

The 1st church believed and taught that Jesus will come back during their life time,
Some probably did, yes. They were wrong. <smile>

...they even wrote it in the Scriptures.
No, what they wrote in the Scriptures... I hope you're speaking of the apostles, here, because no one else wrote anything in the New Testament... but what they wrote in the Scriptures was (probably) misunderstood by some ~ and still is the case today ~ to mean that Jesus was returning in their lifetimes. Now, you probably disagree, and that's okay... fair enough.

I think we can leave it at that. I can, anyway... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.
 
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soberxp

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I said that in response to your having said, "the events that were supposed to happen in the first century are not for us today to wait for them to happen." Now, maybe I misunderstood that comment, but that comment, to me, was tantamount to saying, in effect, that nothing John wrote in Revelation was relevant to his original readers of the day in which he wrote, nor is it really relevant to us today. At least that's how it looks on its face, taken at face value.

But you believe John to have written Revelation prior to 70 A.D. Well, I think we can both agree that it was written in the first century... <smile> ...and even in the latter half of the first century. So to have some kind of discussion about whether it was written around 70 or around 90 is, really, a non sequitur, at least insofar as whether it was relevant to his readers 2000 years ago or us today (or anyone in between or after). Beside the point, a tangent... maybe it would have been better to put it that way. <smile>


Some probably did, yes. They were wrong. <smile>


No, what they wrote in the Scriptures... I hope you're speaking of the apostles, here, because no one else wrote anything in the New Testament... but what they wrote in the Scriptures was (probably) misunderstood by some ~ and still is the case today ~ to mean that Jesus was returning in their lifetimes. Now, you probably disagree, and that's okay... fair enough.

I think we can leave it at that. I can, anyway... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.
If you count the generation including after the resurrection, it seems they didn't get it wrong.
 

Grailhunter

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Ah, so insulting my intelligence now, which is always kind of a last resort, I guess...


You mean "too far"... See what I did there? <smile> Well, I think the discussion would be worthwhile, but fair enough.


Yeah disagree. Generally speaking, Paul did not condemn an institution initiated by God Himself. Marriage is a calling from God, and some people are not called in that way. And I think that with Paul... Paul was the first great missionary, and God called him to do that and used him for that purpose, perhaps even calling him away from the institution of marriage because that would have given him responsibilities as a husband and maybe a father that would have kept him from being the minister of the Gospel abroad that he was... and therefore not living out the purpose which God obviously prepared him to fulfill. And, in that passage in 1 Corinthians 7, Grailhunter, Paul is very explicit in saying, "Live as you are called."


Ah, you know, this is neither here nor there, really, but just concerning what Paul says about marriage, I think we can really say that, yes, maybe he talks little about it, but in what he does say, he says a lot about it. <smile> But yes, I agree; like a lot of other things, it can cause ~ or prevent ~ sin, depending on internal and external circumstances and how God uses it ~ or doesn't use it ~ in our lives.

Grace and peace to you.

Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 1st Corinthians 7:1-2

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 1st Corinthians 7:8-9

But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord. 1st Corinthians 7:32-35
 

Scott Downey

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Guy above repents he said anything about how the rapture would happen on 23 or 24
He said he heard from God, and saw many signs.
Don't look for signs, or omens, don't interpret them. God has forbidden that, interpreting omens.
 

HealthyShape

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I said that in response to your having said, "the events that were supposed to happen in the first century are not for us today to wait for them to happen." Now, maybe I misunderstood that comment, but that comment, to me, was tantamount to saying, in effect, that nothing John wrote in Revelation was relevant to his original readers of the day in which he wrote, nor is it really relevant to us today. At least that's how it looks on its face, taken at face value.
I have no idea why you are getting the points and replies so mixed together that you come out with such misunderstanding. I consciously try to keep my posts simple and clear. So again:
The book of Revelation was written prior 70 AD IMO, probably in 68 or 69 AD. The events in it happened "soon" as the book prophesied. In 70 AD. In this way, everything makes sense.

No, what they wrote in the Scriptures... I hope you're speaking of the apostles, here, because no one else wrote anything in the New Testament
Luke and Mark were not apostles, for example.

... but what they wrote in the Scriptures was (probably) misunderstood by some ~ and still is the case today ~ to mean that Jesus was returning in their lifetimes. Now, you probably disagree, and that's okay... fair enough.

I think we can leave it at that.
I provided a lot of verses to you, read them.
 

HealthyShape

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He said he heard from God, and saw many signs.
So, how do we interpret the failures of these guys, mostly from Africa and similar places, as it seems... scammers? Mentally ill? Pathological liars? Hallucinogens abusers? Attention seekers?

And why do some dispensationalist Christians from developed countries who should have some training in rationality and critical thinking fall for that so easily?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Come on, do not tell me that you do not understand. You are building the case that these are "the last days".
I understand that on one hand, I'm reporting events in the world and then on the other, trying to piece the puzzle together according prophetic scriptures. And ... ?
How else are we supposed to discern the signs that Jesus gave us? Scholars from each view build their cases as the Amils build theirs ... so? You don't have to build any case ... you can do what you want. I have given you enough time, I think we're done.