Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Behold]

Epi doesn't believe that God has imputed His righteousness to us without works.

No He does not believe that God gives HIS righteousness to a sinner as the 'imputed righteousness of Christ'.

Episkopos... found a verse that talks about "doing righteousness" and he's been trying to do that to be accepted by God, ever since.
This is : Legalism.

He can't understand that God is righteouses, and we are not, and God can't have us as His own, unless we are as righteous as God.
So, God became a man, to fulfill the law, and pay for the sin of the world and then offer HIS "imputed" Righteousess,= "Christ's righteousnes" as THE GIFT of Salvation.. to "All who will believe".

"The Gift of Righteousness".

Epi will tell you that this Salvation that is Paul's """"Gospel of the Grace of God"... is "Delusion."

 

[Episkopos]

No He does not believe that God gives HIS righteousness to a sinner as the 'imputed righteousness of Christ'.

Exactly. I'm amazed you get anything I say right. God imputes righteousness to the righteous...but He never imputes HIS righteousness to others. What you want is for God to be SO BLIND as to not only justify the unrighteous but justify the unrighteous with a righteousness that is equivalent...or replaces God's own righteousness. All that kind of scheme does is slander God.

Epi found a verse that talks about "doing righteousness" and he's been trying to do that to be accepted by God, ever since.
This is : Legalism.

Actually, the legalism is about shutting doors not opening them. I stand by the word of God and the full measure of the scope of God's grace as described in the WHOLE counsel of God. Whatever doesn't fit your ideology, you reject, whether the scriptures or the words of Jesus.

He can't understand that God is righteouses, and we are not, and God can't have us as His own, unless we are as righteous as God.

False. You don't realize the ridiculousness of this kind of claim. Since you are unrighteous God has to close His eyes to your true condition, and then make believe you are as righteous as God...so God can live with you (until He opens His eyes again)

So, God became a man, to fulfill the law, and pay for the sin of the world and then offer HIS "imputed" Righteousess,= "Christ's righteousnes" as THE GIFT of Salvation.. to "All who will believe".

"The Gift of Righteousness".

Epi will tell you that this Salvation that is Paul's """"Gospel of the Grace of God"... is "Delusion."

The delusion is in you twisting Paul's words to create a scheme that comes from the nether regions....not heaven.

 

[marks]

Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Much love!

 

[Marvelloustime]

FOR the greeks seek wisdom and the jews require a sign
BUT THE SHEEP PREACH JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED .
FOOLISHNESS to the greeks , a rock of offense , the stumbling stone to the jews ,
BUT TO THE BELIEVING JEW and GENTILE , SALVATION .
TIME to return to the bible , time to learn for ourselves ,
time to beleive as do a child the truth . Time to test all men

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

No He does not believe that God gives HIS righteousness to a sinner as the 'imputed righteousness of Christ'.

Epi found a verse that talks about "doing righteousness" and he's been trying to do that to be accepted by God, ever since.
This is : Legalism.

He can't understand that God is righteouses, and we are not, and God can't have us as His own, unless we are as righteous as God.
So, God became a man, to fulfill the law, and pay for the sin of the world and then offer HIS "imputed" Righteousess,= "Christ's righteousnes" as THE GIFT of Salvation.. to "All who will believe".

"The Gift of Righteousness".

Epi will tell you that this Salvation that is Paul's """"Gospel of the Grace of God"... is "Delusion

And there is only one way to BE MADE RIGHTEOUS , even made the righteousness of GOD .
And as i noticed you wrote , ITS THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS . that is THE GIFT OF GOD .
Lest EPI repents , make not mistake , YES YOU TOO , make no mistake
HE GONNA wail so loud on the day of the LORD for HE did what HE DID and HE taught what HE taught
IN JESUS NAME . JESUS was denied by men who even used HIS NAME . that has to be the WORST .
Though its gonna be harsh for all who rejected HIM .
Those cloaked in wool who did the work of darkness , using the LOVELY NAME of JESUS to do their work
OH DEAR , need i say more , OH DEAR that is greater damantion my friend .
GOD has never been for those WHO USED HIS NAME to do evil . IN fact it was the worst place to be .
SO on that note , MAY ALL WHO NAME THE NAME OF JESUS ALSO DEPART from satans ecumenical move .

 

[Episkopos]

And there is only one way to BE MADE RIGHTEOUS , even made the righteousness of GOD .
And as i noticed you wrote , ITS THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS . that is THE GIFT OF GOD .
Lest EPI repents , make not mistake , YES YOU TOO , make no mistake
HE GONNA wail so loud on the day of the LORD for HE did what HE DID and HE taught what HE taught
IN JESUS NAME . JESUS was denied by men who even used HIS NAME . that has to be the WORST .
Though its gonna be harsh for all who rejected HIM .
Those cloaked in wool who did the work of darkness , using the LOVELY NAME of JESUS to do their work
OH DEAR , need i say more , OH DEAR that is greater damantion my friend .
GOD has never been for those WHO USED HIS NAME to do evil . IN fact it was the worst place to be .
SO on that note , MAY ALL WHO NAME THE NAME OF JESUS ALSO DEPART from satans ecumenical move .

This is laughable hubris and grandstanding. Are you looking in the mirror when you come up with these rants? If not, you should be. You only speak fluff....religious fluff. And that impresses the other pretenders here.

 

[Behold]

Exactly. I'm amazed you get anything I say right. God imputes righteousness to the righteous.

Wrong again.

See, God imputes righteousness to the sinner, once they give God their Faith in Christ.

Its your religious fairytale that teaches that the righteous, need righteousness.
That's kinda crazy, as that is not just terrible theology, its void of even simple logic.

Paul teaches that God imputes rightesousness, to a BELIEVER.
A Believer, is someone who was a lost hell bound sinner. They never had any righteousness, as if they had it, God would not need to impute righteousness to them.

DUH.

..but He never imputes HIS righteousness to others

God imputes Righteousness "by faith"...= its "the righteousness of Faith".......Paul teaches.
Paul explains this as.....OUR "Faith.. is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness">.. imputed to the believer.

Actually, the legalism is about shutting doors not opening them.

Legalism , as found within Christianity, is simply trying to earn God's acceptance by seff effort., or in your case, "doing works".
This is "self righteousness"., and God will not accept it, as He only offers Salvation as HIS ""Gift of Righteousness"" to a believing sinner.

I stand by the word of God and the full measure

You "stand by" you words that stated that the Gospel of Paul is a "Delusion". @Episkopos

Yes we know.

Since you are unrighteous God has to close His eyes to your true condition, and then make believe you are as righteous as God..

I dont make myself anything. Its God who justifies, forgives, and redeems. (Me).
Im "in Christ" so that means im here..... 1 Corin 1:30 (KJV).
See, Christianity is All of God's GRACE..Grace through FAITH = . through Christ., and that is why Paul's Gospel is the "Gospel of the GRACE of God". that you've claimed more then once is a "delusion".
So, each beleiver has received from God, what God requires to accept them, as He is the one providing His Salvation.
A sinner is unacceptable to God, until God makes them "accepted in the Beloved"......and that means.....they have been forgiven by Jesus's Blood and death sacrifice for them, and then they have received from God what He requires to accept them..

A.) = Imputed Righteousness......that is the "GIFT of Righteousness"

Welcome to : Salvation

Its a "Gift"... From GOD.

"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Eternal Life".

 

[GracePeace]

Wrong again.

See, God imputes righteousness to the sinner, once they give God their Faith in Christ.

Its your religious fairytale that teaches that the righteous, need righteousness.
That's kinda crazy, as that is not just terrible theology, its void of even simple logic.

Paul teaches that God imputes rightesousness, to a BELIEVER.
A Believer, is someone who was a lost hell bound sinner. They never had any righteousness, as if they had it, God would not need to impute righteousness to them.

DUH.




God imputes Righteousness "by faith"...= its "the righteousness of Faith".......Paul teaches.
Paul explains this as.....OUR "Faith.. is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness">.. imputed to the believer.



Legalism , as found within Christianity, is simply trying to earn God's acceptance by seff effort., or in your case, "doing works".
This is "self righteousness"., and God will not accept it, as He only offers Salvation as HIS ""Gift of Righteousness"" to a believing sinner.



You "stand by" you words that stated that the Gospel of Paul is a "Delusion". @Episkopos

Yes we know.



I dont make myself anything. Its God who justifies, forgives, and redeems. (Me).
Im "in Christ" so that means im here..... 1 Corin 1:30 (KJV).
See, Christianity is All of God's GRACE..Grace through FAITH = . through Christ., and that is why Paul's Gospel is the "Gospel of the GRACE of God". that you've claimed more then once is a "delusion".
So, each beleiver has received from God, what God requires to accept them, as He is the one providing His Salvation.
A sinner is unacceptable to God, until God makes them "accepted in the Beloved"......and that means.....they have been forgiven by Jesus's Blood and death sacrifice for them, and then they have received from God what He requires to accept them..

A.) = Imputed Righteousness......that is the "GIFT of Righteousness"

Welcome to : Salvation

Its a "Gift"... From GOD.

"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Eternal Life".

Yet we have the precedent that, with God, a gift that is given must also be possessed. These are two separate things--the gift being given by the Giver, and the gift being possessed by the receiver.

Numbers 33:53And you shall take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given the land to you to possess it.

Deuteronomy 1:8See, I have placed the land before you. Enter and possess the land that the LORD swore He would give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and to their descendants after them.

1 Timothy 6:12Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

This is why Galatians 6 can say 6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

 

[Behold]

Yet we have the precedent that, with God, a gift that is given must also be possessed.

Well, to possess God's Salvation, you have to believe The Gospel.
You have to receive God's Salvation by faith., as that is to possess it.

Being born again, is proof of possession.

1 Timothy 6:12Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Timothy's epistle says to "take hold of eternal life".. "to which you were called"..

To be "called" is.....to be drawn to Christ's redemption by the Holy Spirit....

Then It says..... that they made a "good confession".. so confession of faith in Christ has been made.

The Epistle is definitely talking to people who are born again.......as a Christian will take hold of Eternal life, because God has given them the Gift of Etermal life.
THeir Profession, is their Profession of Faith in Christ. = Romans 10:9
Only a Christian "fights the good fight of faith".

. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap

On this fourm God is mocked quite a bit with false Theology.

Take note of People who try to prove that God's Salvation can be lost.....as that is Mocking God.
Take note of People who teach that Paul's Gospel is "Delusion" as that is Mocking God.
Take note of People who teach that "The Cross is not about Salvation"....as that is Mocking God.
Take note of People who teach that if you are not water baptized, you are not a Christian.....as that is Mocking God.
Take note of People who teach....>"The Church has replaced Israel", as that is Mocking God.
And many more.......mockers found around here...


And, while its true that God does not impute sin to a Christian.. 1 Corin 5:19 and Romans 4:8........its also true that if you commit carnal deeds as a Christian... you will reap a consequence every time, and that is "sowing and reaping"......its a spiritual law that is not removed by The Cross of Christ.

. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

The way we "sow to the Spirit" is by faith.
The way we sow to the flesh, is by walking in the flesh.

9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

God is never late, but He does usually allow us to gain some patience while we wait for a solution to come from God.

10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Yes, we are always to esteem others above ourselves.
But that does not mean we are to tolerate bad/false theology.
Paul teaches us in Titus 3, that in real life, (not on a forum).....if we are in a ministry.......and are dealing with a Heretic......we are to give them a few chances to learn and turn......and if they wont........they are to be "put outside", and kept there.
The reason being......is...... their theological deception has rooted beyond recovery.
Paul teaches this as "they are subverted WITHIN themselves".
Jesus teaches this in Luke.....as "Be careful that the Light in you is not darkness"...

 

[GracePeace]

Well, to possess God's Salvation, you have to believe The Gospel.
You have to receive God's Salvation by faith., as that is to possess it.

Being born again, is proof of possession.

Paul already knows Timothy already believed, so your take doesn't fit.

And, while its true that God does not impute sin to a Christian.. 1 Corin 5:19 and Romans 4:8........its also true that if you commit carnal deeds as a Christian... you will reap a consequence every time, and that is "sowing and reaping"......its a spiritual law that is not removed by The Cross of Christ.



The way we "sow to the Spirit" is by faith.
The way we sow to the flesh, is by walking in the flesh.

The text says doing good deeds is sowing to the spirit, you say that that isn't true. Who should Christians believe?

 

[Azim]

Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Much love!

Thank you @marks for sharing this. I was thinking about this debate about "righteousness" yesterday. Something came to mind, but at the time, I couldn't put the words together.
The keyword in these verses we all over look, is "which".

Which Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

WHICH meaning: 1 : 69527; 2 : 1

www.britannica.com

This is the definition of the word:
"what one or ones of a group : what particular one or ones — used to indicate what is being shown, pointed to, or mentioned

• He knew which people had paid and which hadn't.
• Which tie should I wear, the red one or the green one?
• Which way should we turn at the stoplight?
• Choose which style you like best.

The word "which" in english does not mean one of one.

@Episkopos , I look to you now. The word "which" doesn't mean the "same" or "of". God can't give His righteousness to us, unless we also were God? Instead, is the righteousness we look through faith, in Christ, of God, more like "borrowed" or "example" to upon and to able hold? I was reading your "painters" thread last night on another forum. So I'm trying to put these together. Its confusing to me in one way to express.

Be blessed all those who are seeking Him to walk in this dark world.

 

[marks]

The word "which" in english does not mean one of one.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.



Perhaps this will help.

"not having my righteous out of the law" "the rightousness out of God"

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

View attachment 70897

Perhaps this will help.

"not having my righteous out of the law" "the rightousness out of God"

Much love!

Jesus's Name is "God Is Our Righteousness". Abiding in Him ("if that which you heard from the beginning abides in you"), it seems, God Himself is our righteousness.

Therefore, I disagree that God's righteousness is imputed to us.

That said, where we differ is the idea that abiding in Him is a static reality--but we've had that discussion.

 

[marks]

which

which

pronoun​

1. Of what sort or kind; what; what a; who.
   Similar: what who
2. A interrogative pronoun, used both substantively and adjectively, and in direct and indirect questions, to ask for, or refer to, an individual person or thing among several of a class; See the Note under What, pron., 1.
   "which man is it? which woman was it? which is the house? he asked which route he should take; which is best, to live or to die?"
3. A relative pronoun, used esp. in referring to an antecedent noun or clause, but sometimes with reference to what is specified or implied in a sentence, or to a following noun or clause (generally involving a reference, however, to something which has preceded). It is used in all numbers and genders, and was formerly used of persons.
4. A compound relative or indefinite pronoun, standing for any one which, whichever, that which, those which, the … which, and the like.
   "take which you will"

determiner​

1. What, of those mentioned or implied (used interrogatively).
2. What one or ones (of those mentioned or implied).
3. The one or ones that.
4. The one mentioned.
5. Used of people (now generally who, whom or that).

The GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English • More at Wordnik

 

[Behold]

Paul already knows Timothy already believed, so your take doesn't fit.

Paul isn't teaching a Christian that they don't already have eternal life and need to chase it... , as Paul is the one who teaches that Salvation is a Gift, and Righteousness is a Gift, and Eternal life is a Gift.

This means that when a person is born again, they have already received all this., as their Salvation.

This is why John teaches that """"'you can KNOW that you have eternal life"""... and this life is"" in God's Son"", which means that because a Christian is '"in Christ".....they have eternal life.
Or as Jesus said........"if you believe in me" i give you eternal life.........and all Chrisitans have believed in Jesus, and have eternal life.

And it can be taught this way also........= Jesus is Eternal life... as He stated that "I have come to give you LIFE"... and says that He is the "Way, the Truth and THE LIFE".........so, as all Christian have Jesus IN THEM........they have eternal life.

A.) "CHRIST IN YOU... the hope of Glory".. (Glory is heaven).

The text says doing good deeds is sowing to the spirit, you say that that isn't true. Who should Christians believe?

Lets look at what you posted, and let's just stay with what you posted.

@GracePeace posted.

"""""8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."""""

So, your verse does not say anything about "good deeds", so, no need to rewrite the verse to fit your private interpretation.
THe verse says that if you sow to the Flesh, vs if you sow to the Spirit.

"Sowing to the flesh", can be a carnal deed, or it can be a wrong belief that rejects correct NT doctrine.
An example is to believe that you can lose your salvaiton......as. that belief is sowing to the flesh, as that teaching comes from the flesh.
See, a self righteous person, believes they can lose their Salvation, and a God righteous person, believes that Jesus always keeps them saved.

Another example,.. = if you sow to the flesh, by getting back under the law, then what you reap is.. "Fallen from Grace".
Paul teaches that this person is '""In the Flesh".

Now... sowing to the Spirit, is spiritual... that is why it says "SPIRIT"...... and this is related to gaining revelation knowlege, or what the NT refers to as "the knowledge of God".

 

[GracePeace]

Paul isn't teaching a Christian that they don't already have eternal life and need to chase it... , as Paul is the one who teaches that Salvation is a Gift, and Righteousness is a Gift, and Eternal life is a Gift.

This means that when a person is born again, they have already received all this., as their Salvation.

If everything you're saying is true, Paul would have no reason to tell Timothy what he is telling him--he would assume Timothy had already believed and forever had eternal life.

This is why John teaches that """"'you can KNOW that you have eternal life"""... and this life is"" in God's Son"", which means that because a Christian is '"in Christ".....they have eternal life.
Or as Jesus said........"if you believe in me" i give you eternal life.........and all Chrisitans have believed in Jesus, and have eternal life.

And it can be taught this way also........= Jesus is Eternal life... as He stated that "I have come to give you LIFE"... and says that He is the "Way, the Truth and THE LIFE".........so, as all Christian have Jesus IN THEM........they have eternal life.

"CHRIST IN YOU... the hope of Glory".. (Glory is heaven).

I agree that God has given "us" eternal life, and that "we" can know "we" have it--specifically, the life is located "in His Son", and, therefore, only those who abide in Him, which is by keeping His commands/command "believe in the Name of His son and love one another" (1 Jn 3:23,24), are the "us" who can know they have the eternal life.
This is why Galatians 6:6-10, where Paul teaches that you will reap eternal life as a harvest of good deeds done by walking in faith, doesn't contradict : abiding in Him is by keeping His commands, both believing in His Name and loving/doing good, and, being that you are abiding in Him by so doing ("let him follow Me"), you are abiding in the place where the eternal life is located.

Lets look at what you posted, and let's just stay with what you posted.

@GracePeace posted.

"""""8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."""""

So, your verse does not say anything about "good deeds", so, no need to rewrite the verse to fit your private interpretation.
THe verse says that if you sow to the Flesh, vs if you sow to the Spirit.

Galatians 6
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Now... sowing to the Spirit, is spiritual... that is why it says "SPIRIT"...... and this is related to gaining revelation knowlege, or what the NT refers to as "the knowledge of God".

Sowing to the Spirit is doing good deeds, as the text explicitly states.

 

[Episkopos]

The word "which" in english does not mean one of one.

@Episkopos , I look to you now. The word "which" doesn't mean the "same" or "of". God can't give His righteousness to us, unless we also were God? Instead, is the righteousness we look through faith, in Christ, of God, more like "borrowed" or "example" to upon and to able hold? I was reading your "painters" thread last night on another forum. So I'm trying to put these together. Its confusing to me in one way to express.

Be blessed all those who are seeking Him to walk in this dark world.

The righteousness of God is found in Christ. The key words are IN HIM. In Him is no sin. In Him we walk in resurrection life above sin. The only way INTO Christ is by faith...unlike the righteousness that God can impute TO US which is imperfect and can be declared either by faith OR works.

That is what is taught in the bible.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

When we enter into Christ we walk in His faith, His perfection, His holiness, His righteousness....the higher walk in the Spirit.

In our own faith we can do nothing impossible. (Without Me you can do nothing) God can still impute righteousness to us (as a human righteousness) whether by faith or by works. But to enter into the resurrection life of Christ ONLY faith will do...and only the faith OF Christ has us BE WHERE HE IS.

The problem here is that people are claiming to walk in the Spirit by their own faith or beliefs...based on naming and claiming certain bible verses for themselves (self-justification) while ignoring all the verses that actually describe what they are really doing.

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[Episkopos]

View attachment 70902

You should try reading it instead of pretending you respect the bible. You worship a book but you are far from knowing anything about its AUTHOR.

 

[amigo de christo]

You should try reading it instead of pretending you respect the bible. You worship a book but you are far from knowing anything about its AUTHOR.