Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[amigo de christo]

The part you dont want to accept is that --- you will always be faithful - and you will always be righteous! There are people out there that SEEK to be HATED because that is what they think is a good Christian.... Seeking for that type of attention is - arrogant and pride-filled trip.

Ah the flawed human, who can never get it right, thank God for Jesus.

There are some people who actually do seek persecution .
They seek to be hated .
For a sheep that comes all on its own , we dont have to go looking for it .
IT COMES on its own .

 

[Behold]

In your scheme you, being a sinner without any righteousness whatsoever,

Its the Bible that told you about yourself.
It defined you as """""ALL have sinned, there is none RIGHTEOUS... no not ONE""".

THat means you. @Episkopos

So, any Righteousness that belongs to a Believer, came from God..........and its "The Gift of Righteousness".

can then claim to have God's own righteousness imputed to you...

All Christians have the imputed righteousness........as this is God's "Gift of Righteousness"..

See, Salvation that comes from God.... involves Forgiveness, and imputed righteousness., and a spiritual birth.

because you are a sinner. So your whole scheme falls apart and is based on lawlessness and unrighteousness.

In not a sinner.
Im a Saint,
All Christians are Saints.....

1 Corinthinans......... """Unto the church of God , to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be Saints",

 

[Episkopos]

You disagree with me, because you claim that Paul's Gospel is a "Delusion".
So, that is why you disagree with Paul, which is why you disagree with the the New Covenant.

Paul and I agree that the NT is about holiness and the higher walk. You being unstable and unlearned claim the higher walk benefits while you wallow in sin and pride. Do you think Paul will rise up against you on that day? I know he will.

No verse says that Abrham was saved by His own Righteousness.

What do you think imputing means? How many other OT saints were also justified by their own righteousness? Many. I post scriptures and you ignore them the way you ignore any truth.
Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD.

Stop lying.
The NT teaches that "Abraham's FAITH was counted to him, as (imputed) Righteousness".....and that is God's Righteousness,...... as a sinner does not have any righteousness.

False. There is no one righteous that doesn't sin.

For there is not a just (righteous) man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Now Abraham, lived before the Law.......and "Where there is no law, there is no SIN". (Transgression).



Paul teaches that "their faith was counted by God, as RIGHTEOUSNESS">

This is Paul's teaching, that is "The righteousness of Faith".....or the "imputed righteousness".

Bible 101

You need to go back to sunday school and start with easy bible stories.

 

[MatthewG]

Imagine only ever doing good things, and not wanting to do something bad once in awhile...

Thats straight up torture.


It definitely tortured the hell of Jesus, but he loved his Father so much and he did it for the world. While living in this body.... He was tempted in all things... doesnt matter what you can think of... but he resisted for us so that we could also have help but it doesnt mean you will ever overcome it: Except in Christ Yeshua. But you yourself nah. You wont be able to.

 

[amigo de christo]

Imagine only ever doing good things, and not wanting to do something bad once in awhile...

Thats straight up torture.


It definitely tortured the hell of Jesus, but he loved his Father so much and he did it for the world. While living in this body....

YEAH . THINK on these things . TRUTH , the things that are pure and lovely .
Overcome evil by doing good .

 

[Episkopos]

There are some here who deny the scriptures, contradict the words of Jesus...and then claim to be as righteous as God! Which god?

 

[Behold]

Paul and I agree that the NT is about holiness and the higher walk.

Paul never used the term "higher walk" or the term "Zion".

You use those terms , and now try to pretend that this is from Paul.
Its not.
It just you trying to pretend you are something you are not.

You being unstable and unlearned claim the higher walk benefits while you wallow in sin and pride. Do you think Paul will rise up against you on that day? I know he will.

You rant a simple minded demonic theology, that falsely teaches that Paul's Gospel is a "Delusion, and that "The Cross is not about Forgiveness".

You are already cursed, by your own words, according to : Galatians 1:8. @Episkopos

You should read that verse, asap.

What do you think imputing means?

Imputing means...."To charge with" "to attribute to" or "to cause"..
And this is God doing that for the believer. He is imputing His own Righteousness unto them.
Why?
Because unless you have HIS Righteousnes, God does not have a eternal spiritual relationship with you.

How many other OT saints were also justified by their own righteousness?

Paul teaches that we are the "Children of Abraham".......because we have received from God, His own Righteousness that is imputed to us.
See,..... It has to be imputed to a believer, as there is no other way to gain GOD's Righteousness.

False. There is no one righteous that doesn't sin.

Sin is defined by the Law.

"Where there is no Law, there is no Sin,"" (Transgression)..

The born again are "NOT under the LAW, but Under GRACE"..

"Jesus has redeemed (the born again) from the Curse of the Law".

For there is not a just (righteous) man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Unless a person is born again......then """There is none righteous""" Including the currently heretically deluded who are trying to "do righteousness" (self righteousness) to try to go to Heaven and will not make it.

 

[Behold]

There are some here who deny the scriptures, contradict the words of Jesus...and then claim to be as righteous as God! Which god?

You want to post about "scriptures" while denying them, as you are the one who teaches that The bible is "Faulty"

You're the person who teaches that Paul's Gospel is "delusion"...

Remember,????????? or is that another suddenly confirmed memory loss of yours.. @Episkopos ?

So, Look in the mirror.
You are the one who denies the scriptures and insults them publically and willfully and proudly.

 

[marks]

Let's hear your approach. Are you more confident than Paul when he said this?

2 Co 5:9-11
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul seemed to think that the judgement of us by Jesus is a terror. What do you think?

Phobon . . . from phobos, fear. Terror.

Let's just say I, like him, have a very healthy fear of the Lord. But I'm not afraid of being tossed into the lake of fire.

Have you considered what the heavenly rewards may actually consist of? And what it may mean to us then to fall short of God's intent for us?

Have you considered how a life devoted 100% to serving Christ produces a mountain of good works, that will affect the fruitfulness of others in their lives, and the rewards they receive, and so on? The Jews have a saying, that when you kill a man, you kill a world, because you've killed all who will come from him.

I have this idea that things I've left undone are just like that. And things I've done, that have brought into existance some continuing horror for others.

Have you considered the amazing works that will remain undone because we chose a moment of fleshiness?

Have you considered what your life would be right now if you were 100% since you were reborn?

Have you considered how remedial we may be, not in our own minds, but before God? Nearly worthless children who fail to appreciate what's been done for us, that we now insist on doing on our own?

I consider such things. I consider the effects on my own being of my fleshy choices. Yes, I fear the Lord!

I think there will be some heavy surprises when God judges His children. But even so none will be thrown into the lake of fire.

That is for those who are not His.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

You want to post about "scriptures" while denying them, as you are the one who teaches that The bible is "Faulty"

You're the person who teaches that Paul's Gospel is "delusion"...

Remember,????????? or is that another suddenly confirmed memory loss of yours.. @Episkopos ?

So, Look in the mirror.
You are the one who denies the scriptures and insults them publically and willfully and proudly.

Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD

 

[Episkopos]

Paul never used the term "higher walk" or the term "Zion".

You use those terms , and now try to pretend that this is from Paul.
Its not.
It just you trying to pretend you are something you are not.




You rant a simple minded demonic theology, that falsely teaches that Paul's Gospel is a "Delusion, and that "The Cross is not about Forgiveness".

You are already cursed, by your own words, according to : Galatians 1:8. @Episkopos

You should read that verse, asap.




Imputing means...."To charge with" "to attribute to" or "to cause"..
And this is God doing that for the believer. He is imputing His own Righteousness unto them.
Why?
Because unless you have HIS Righteousnes, God does not have a eternal spiritual relationship with you.



Paul teaches that we are the "Children of Abraham".......because we have received from God, His own Righteousness that is imputed to us.
See,..... It has to be imputed to a believer, as there is no other way to gain GOD's Righteousness.



Sin is defined by the Law.

"Where there is no Law, there is no Sin,"" (Transgression)..

The born again are "NOT under the LAW, but Under GRACE"..

"Jesus has redeemed (the born again) from the Curse of the Law".



Unless a person is born again......then """There is none righteous""" Including the currently heretically deluded who are trying to "do righteousness" (self righteousness) to try to go to Heaven and will not make it.

Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD

 

[marks]

2 Co 5:9-11
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

"his body" is interpretation, not translation.

2 Corinthians 5:10 LITV
For we all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive the things done through the body, according to what he did, whether good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5:10 YLT
10) for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;

Much love!

 

[marks]

Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD

AS they say, Context is king . . .

Ezekiel 14:12-20 KJV
12) The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,
13) Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
14) Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
15) If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
16) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
17) Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
18) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
19) Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
20) Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

If God were to send these plagues upon Israel, only these three men would be delivered from them by their own righteousness.

However, as this references material harms in this life, this is not a soteriological statement.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD

Noah and Job are a different case then Daniel, as Noah and Job were before the Law.

Also, You left out Abraham.
And the reason you did that is because Paul's Theology utterly denies your false teaching.
As its Paul's Doctrine regarding the imputed righteousess of Christ... that directly compares Abraham's imputed righteousness with born again Christianity.
Paul teaches that the sinner gets it the same way that Abraham got it.....and that is....>"faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness".
Christ's Righteousness is God's Righteousness as they are ONE.

Its Paul who teaches in Rom 9, that Gentile Christians have """attained to Righteousness, but not by works""".......and there is only one Righteousness that God accepts, to accept a sinner. And that rightesousness is His own that He imputes to a Believer as "The GIFT of Righteousness".

 

[Behold]

Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord GOD

Noah and Job are a different case then Daniel, as Noah and Job were before Moses's Law was given.

Also, You left out Abraham. (Again).
And the reason you did that again is because Paul's Theology utterly denies your false teaching.
As its Paul's Doctrine regarding the imputed righteousess of Christ... that directly compares Abraham's imputed righteousness with born again Christianity.
Paul teaches that the sinner gets it the same way that Abraham got it.....and that is....>"faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness".
Christ's Righteousness is God's Righteousness as they are ONE.

Its Paul who teaches in Rom 9, that Gentile Christians have """attained to Righteousness, but not by works""".......and there is only one Righteousness that God accepts, to accept a sinner. And that rightesousness is His own that He imputes to a Believer as "The GIFT of Righteousness".

 

[soberxp]

By read and learning =30
By faith = 60
By faith and work = 100

 

[soberxp]

By read and learning =30
By faith = 60
By faith and work = 100

60-30=30

This shows that the proportion of "By faith" and "By reading and learning" is the same.

100-30-30=40

This shows that the proportion of "work" is more than others.

 

[Lizbeth]

We have already discussed what I see as him knowing us so no need to hash that out here as it deflects from the point of my post. Which is...can you present any example of eternal judgement by God that is not based on works? On unbelievers and believers alike.

I'm not keeping up with everything, so someone might have already posted this. Quite sure it needs to be taken into account:

Jhn 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Lizbeth]

I disagree. That's not what the word means. It is sometimes used in context that a prophecy is fulfilled, but the word still means "to become", in that case, becoming what was prophesied. So the context can indicate a different usage for that meaning. Not a change of the meaning of the word, rather, an understanding that is based specifically on the context. So an argument isn't true in that passage. That claim is misleading.

Much love!

ok, I will try to look at it again....fulfill might have more than one sense, maybe.

 

[Lizbeth]

What i just read proves what i have long known
Someone whose name i wont mention
Their mind is much like baskin and robbins
only its thirty one flavors of confusion . Folks get in the BIBLE .

Yes, he keeps moving the goal posts. I truly hate to think of someone doing that deliberately and knowingly while claiming to know Christ, it won't bode well for them.