Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[ScottA]

Jesus said in Matthew 25:6,10-13, “at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him … and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

This is when the opportunity of salvation finally closes. This is when the door is finally closed. We are reminded of the continual directive of the Lord, and of Scripture, for God’s people to “watch” and be “ready” for His return. The Preterists would have us believe that this pertains to AD70. Listening to them, you would think Jesus was as obsessed with that date as they are. Frankly, nothing is more ridiculous! He was constantly exhorting them to prepare for His glorious return.

God closed the ark and the destructive floods came immediately lasting 40 days, although the water remained on the earth 150 days until the ark rested on Ararat. Jesus said, "the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). The Lord goes from "days" (plural) to "day" to show that he is talking of an individual day of destruction. Christ reinforces the fact that it was an individual day by also using the days/days contrast re Sodom's judgement, He emphasizes, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all” (v29). And then concludes, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (or) apokaluptetai” (v 30).

The deliverance of the redeemed and the destruction of the wicked are shown to be a simultaneous event. They occur on “the same day.”

No, you say "is" closed, but the passage says "was" closed.

It is a common misunderstanding. You have much of it correct...such as "the same day." But that day is rather "in that day you eat of it." But even then "was" would have been more accurate--as "before the world was."

I tell you--much of what has been believed--is not true, not as many have expected.

 

[WPM]

No, you say "is" closed, but the passage says "was" closed.

It is a common misunderstanding. You have much of it correct...such as "the same day." But that day is rather "in that day you eat of it." But even then "was" would have been more accurate--as "before the world was."

I tell you--much of what has been believed--is not true, not as many have expected.

LOL. You are describing your own heresy of denying the future physical second coming.

 

[Muna]

Yes, like WPM I too am Amill. It is the only end time biblical doctrine that is reconciled with the whole of Scripture. Premill cannot be reconciled, and is content to force contradiction and confusion upon the Word of God.

rwb, Is there a decent thread that shows these contradictions between them better, that you can reccomend, or better yet, a decent one, easy to follow, that does not flood you with the scriptures as well as insults but takes each point of contention and shows how the one might see a thing verses the other and how either side (or the one rather) cannot recconcile their things?

I would look at it.

I am new to sorting out people things I typically do not rummage through them and find eschatology a difficult thing to argue, or even follow the arguments because it just requires so much back and forths (in comparing). Not to mention things that should be understood spiritually being put out there carnally but also those things I might take more literally being overspiritualized, and thats why it can be harder to follow, and where the contentions get a tad much, and peaceful discussions do not last too long.

 

[Muna]

You were on the right track until you got to Ro 11:25, read in context with v 26. As you can read, Paul is NOT saying once the fullness of the Gentiles have been saved, then the blindness in part in Israel shall be lifted. These verses are showing how all Israel shall be saved once the Gentiles of faith and Jews of faith are complete, having entered into the Kingdom of God in heaven through the Spirit of Christ within is the manner in which all Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11:25-26 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

I read it in context, I have read the whole chapters repeatedly over and over again, its just when you are replying you must take sections or just overwhelm the reply box.

I posted as far as Romans 11:30 in post #134

But just remaining in Romans (concerning the natural branches)

Romans 11:30
[30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

To which I added,

"This is speaking of these not now believing also"

 

[ScottA]

LOL. You are describing your own heresy of denying the future physical second coming.

Careful. These of are the days of which Jesus warned, saying “anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven."

 

[WPM]

Careful. These of are the days of which Jesus warned, saying “anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven."

What? You are NOT the Son of man or the Holy Spirit.

 

[Muna]

Careful. These of are the days of which Jesus warned, saying “anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven."

Your not saying that you are the Holy Spirit are you?

 

[WPM]

rwb, Is there a decent thread that shows these contradictions between them better, that you can reccomend, or better yet, a decent one, easy to follow, that does not flood you with the scriptures as well as insults but takes each point of contention and shows how the one might see a thing verses the other and how either side (or the one rather) cannot recconcile their things?

I would look at it.

I am new to sorting out people things I typically do not rummage through them and find eschatology a difficult thing to argue, or even follow the arguments because it just requires so much back and forths (in comparing). Not to mention things that should be understood spiritually being put out there carnally but also those things I might take more literally being overspiritualized, and thats why it can be harder to follow, and where the contentions get a tad much, and peaceful discussions do not last too long.

It you want to know the Amil position, and main objections with Premil, this might help. I have accumulated this after years of research and discussions. I started my research as a Premil in 2000. After 6 months I changed. I could not corroborate any Premil tenet.

26 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Since abandoning Premillennialism I have engaged in many debates/discussions on the matter of the second coming, end-times and the here-after. These are some of the major weaknesses I find in the Premillennialism doctrine, and are strong reasons why I believe the dogma should be rejected. I...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Muna]

What? You are NOT the Son of man.

You can be forgiven if you were the Son of man NOT the Holy Spirit though

 

[WPM]

You can be forgiven if you were the Son of man NOT the Holy Spirit though

Agreed. I amended my post.

 

[Muna]

It you want to know the Amil position, and main objections with Premil, this might help. I have accumulated this after years of research and discussions. I started my research as Premil in 2000. After 6 months I changed. I could not corroborate any Premil tenet.

26 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Since abandoning Premillennialism I have engaged in many debates/discussions on the matter of the second coming, end-times and the here-after. These are some of the major weaknesses I find in the Premillennialism doctrine, and are strong reasons why I believe the dogma should be rejected. I...

www.christianityboard.com

Thanks, I bookmarked it, I'll have a look at it

 

[WPM]

Thanks, I bookmarked it, I'll have a look at it

Most Amils here were Premil. I have seen a major shift among younger believers over the years.

 

[ScottA]

What? You are NOT the Son of man or the Holy Spirit.

For you who assume.

 

[ScottA]

Your not saying that you are the Holy Spirit are you?

That is not how it works, nor is it what I am saying.

 

[Muna]

Most Amils here were Premil. I have seen a major shift among younger believers over the years.

I am probably the rare bird that hasnt a branch to perch upon
(gotta find me one) lol

 

[Muna]

That is not how it works, nor is it what I am saying.

You said, "Careful. These of are the days of which Jesus warned" when WPM shot back concerning what he he felt was your own heresy of denying the future physical second coming, when Jesus pointed out

Mark 3;28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Edit: typo

 

[WPM]

For you who assume.

If anyone questions you, they are of the devil? Who do you think you are?

 

[WPM]

I am probably the rare bird that hasnt a branch to perch upon
(gotta find me one) lol

Understand. Keep digging.

 

[Muna]

If anyone questions you, they are of the devil? Who do you think you are?

He posted this

WARNING: Many Who Now Speak SPEAK AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

“Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven." These are the times for which Jesus gave the above warning--because He was then going to the Father and would send the Holy Spirit. And what...

www.christianityboard.com

I believe he thinks all blasphemes are equal

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

These too are blasphemers

1 Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander;
whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Jesus said,

Mark 3;28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

 

[WPM]

He posted this

WARNING: Many Who Now Speak SPEAK AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

“Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven." These are the times for which Jesus gave the above warning--because He was then going to the Father and would send the Holy Spirit. And what...

www.christianityboard.com

I believe he thinks all blasphemes are equal

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

These too are blasphemers

1 Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander;
whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Jesus said,

Mark 3;28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

In his thinking, anyone who disagrees with him, and who rejects the Full Preterist lie, is damned to a lost eternity.

He is committing the very thing he is accusing others of. That is projection. That is hypocrisy.