Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Behold]

I think the meaning is seen easily enough. It's his innuendo that I'm seeking self-affirmation, and therefore am the monkey wrench in his teaching ministry.

He has opposed me for many years as I continue to post Scriptures that refute his assertions, and as I challenge him to act towards others commensurate to his claims of spiritual maturity.

Much love!

Im here on the forum about 5yrs now.
During this time, ive watched Him play the same mind game with members.
He tells everyone who does not buy into his incredibly false theology that they are a troll, or that they are spiritually immature, attempting to trigger them into anger, while at the same time he whines about being "attacked".
Ive no doubt that as He's been on this forum for over a decade, he's been playing this same game for as long.
Its his ministry here on the forum, obviously.

I had thought that he could not acieve a more blasphemous point of view then his continuing to state that "The Cross is not about forgiveness".....but he topped that recently by claiming that Paul's Gospel, is "delusion".
Eventually he'll try to "damage control" that Cross offending Galatians 1:8 commentary........given time.

 

[Episkopos]

Im here on the forum about 5yrs now.
During this time, ive watched Him play the same mind game with members.
He tells everyone who does not buy into his incredibly false theology that they are a troll, or that they are spiritually immature, attempting to trigger them into anger, while at the same time he whines about being "attacked".
Ive no doubt that as He's been on this forum for over a decade, he's been playing this same game for as long.
Its his ministry here on the forum, obviously.

I had thought that he could not acieve a more blasphemous point of view then his continuing to state that "The Cross is not about forgiveness".....but he topped that recently by claiming that Paul's Gospel, is "delusion".
Eventually he'll try to "damage control" that Cross offending Galatians 1:8 commentary........given time.

More lies and typical slander. YOUR gospel is delusional. Paul's gospel is the gospel of the kingdom. As per the bible and according to many verses that you ignore. You are a dishonest and delusional troll, in truth.

 

[GracePeace]

For different reasons, I actually agree with both sides (Episkopos' views and his opponents' views) LOL

 

[marks]

Ive no doubt that as He's been on this forum for over a decade, he's been playing this same game for as long.

I've seen it for 15 years, no change.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

More lies and typical slander. YOUR gospel is delusional.

Paul's gospel is not "delusional".
Its all i teach.
Its Paul who teaches this, and its not delusional, its "The Gospel">

A.) .) You must be "made righteous"..., and that happens only when God gives you His very own Righteousness, as "THE Gift of Righteousness".....Paul Teaches, in Romans 5.

AA.) Abraham received it, as "imputed righteousness", and the believer will receive it the same way....by FAITH.... Paul teaches.

"Abraham believed God, and it was imputed (counted) unto Him as RIGHTEOUSNESS"""......... and Paul then teaches in Romans 4 ..., that = "for us also, = to whom righteousness shall be IMPUTED"..

And who is the "US" Paul is describing in Romans 4?........Its "all who Believe in Jesus, shall be saved".. "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved"... and "not by works".. "but according to God's MERCY He saved Us".

God's ...."Grace, through Faith".

God's...."Justification by Faith".

God's... "imputed righteousness....by FAITH".

Paul's gospel is the gospel of the kingdom.

Paul teaches........"WE preach Christ Crucified"......"The Gospel of the GRACE of God"...

And the reason you think the message of The Cross that is Paul's Gospel... "Is delusional", is because you are the very one in Paul's verse that its describing, who views it as foolish... @Episkopos

This verse.. :

New International Version
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

New Living Translation
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

English Standard Version
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Berean Standard Bible
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

King James Bible
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[ProDeo]

Well, "the one who observes a day observes it as unto the Lord" : no, it is, plainly, not merely addressing the issue of food, but addresses the broader issue of faith by various practices (eating, observing a day, etc).

No.

Rom 14 is about a conflict eating what food among Christians in Rome.

Please read the chapter again.

The discussion I've been having has been about the correct explication of the sanctioned manner of living (ie, "under Grace") over against what Paul condemns in Galatians (ie, "under Law"), and the impact that that understanding inexorably has on the "saved by faith alone, not works, etc," argument--ie, this rule (v5) applies to the sanctioned manner of living "as unto the Lord", it does not teach you how to reject Grace by embracing a heresy that makes you fall from Grace (it is related, however, in the sense that you fall from grace when you don't follow the rule).

That's a whole different issue, dozen and dozen threads are about that on the forum, no relationship with Romans 14.

 

[GracePeace]

No.

Yep.

Rom 14 is about a conflict eating what food among Christians in Rome.

Please read the chapter again.

I've been reading it for many years.

Romans 14
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Why do these words appear here if they are not also being dealt with according to you?

That's a whole different issue, dozen and dozen threads are about that on the forum, no relationship with Romans 14.

In that case, you don't need to join the discussion--your viewpoint is duly noted--but your inability see the relevance, or your refusal to admit it (either way), will have no bearing on whether others can or will discuss the issues raised by the texts.

 

[ProDeo]

I've seen it for 15 years, no change.

Much love!

17 years here :)

For the record @Episkopos, in this thread has said he is called by God Himself to preach what he preaches. He uses it as an excuse to trample the faith of anyone who disagrees with him. Instead of patience people have to face anger and disdain, instead of showing mercy people face judgement, instead of love insults are your reward.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Nothing of that if you disagree with the message God (as @Episkopos claims) has given him.

 

[ProDeo]

Yep.

I've been reading it for many years.

Romans 14
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

Why do these words appear here if they are not also being dealt with according to you?

In that case, you don't need to join the discussion--your viewpoint is duly noted--but your inability see the relevance, or your refusal to admit it (either way), will have no bearing on whether others can or will discuss the issues raised by the texts.

You brought up Romans 14

 

[GracePeace]

You brought up Romans 14

Yeah, I'm discussing it with another user. I don't know what this has to do with you.
You reject the premise, that's fine, go do something else you prefer to do.

 

[GracePeace]

You brought up Romans 14

Yeah, I'm discussing it with another user. I don't know what this has to do with you.
You reject the premise, that's fine, go do something else you prefer to do.

I was discussing the issue with @marks, and you decided to involve yourself.
If you insist on seeing it as a "nothing burger", you are free to disengage.

 

[ProDeo]

I was discussing the issue with @marks, and you decided to involve yourself.

Last time I checked this is a Bible forum.

If you insist on seeing it as a "nothing burger", you are free to disengage.

Your wish is my command.

Love.

 

[Behold]

Nothing of that if you disagree with the message God (as @Episkopos claims) has given him.

There are a few of these types running around "christian" forums.. who claim to be sent from God to instruct the Church, or bring the church back "into the Light', or to claim that what Paul teaches as His gospel is "delusional".
One that i met on a few forums, who was here for a while is "GIDEON".
What a head case... He insisted that God The Father = Himself came to him in person, and gave him a message for the church that is designed to bring the church back to God.. and the message was ......to do works to try to stay saved and go to heaven.
I asked him on "Worthy Christian Forums".......> "why would God leave His Throne in Heaven, when He could have sent Jesus, or an angel or the Holy Spirit to you,"...

His answer?

"Crickets"..
"silence".

This reminds me of another member on this forum ......"charismaticlady"... now rebranded as "1stcenturylady".
She will tell you that "God answers all my prayers.....everytime.....every one, always"".
So, i asked her a few times im a few different posts... to Pray to God that : "Jesus would come back today".....since He answers all your prayers, everytime"""..

Her response?

"crickets"
"silence".

Reader, if you love the bible and you really study the NT, you find that Jesus was ultra-compassionate with a fool, or with a demon possessed, or with a whore.
But when he was around a religious FAKER, He became something different when he dealt this type, as He could not stand them.

Sometimes He told them to "depart from me".......and other times He told them they were "of your father the devil"., and one other time He chased them out of the Temple in Jerusalem with a WHIP>..., after turning over a room full of tables.

 

[GracePeace]

@marks

But you wouldn't think Paul's usage of "await" in "we through the Spirit by faith await the hope of righteousness" has to do with the substance of God's love in the heart which he says is absent when we are facing ourselves (eg, through the Law) instead of facing God (ie, through faith in the message of God's kindness)--that he is comparing an absence of Christ and Grace on account of de facto doubt (Gal 3:1-3) to a being filled with Grace through both faith in Christ and then sharing that Christ for God's glory through works?

Consider also the manner of Jesus in the Book of John : there is a heavy emphasis on "time" (eg, Jn 2 "it is not my time" versus "it is always your time"). It is always time for the ones producing their own righteousness by the flesh (Ro 8:3 "the Law, weakened through the flesh", Gal 3:3 "are you now being perfected by the flesh [the Law]?"), but Jesus, filled with God's love, "by faith, through the Spirit, awaits the hope of righteousness". It is not always His time. He has a vision given by the Spirit of God, and He anticipates the future glory of God with great joy in the present. Eventually, Jesus makes water into wine in Jn 2, and, eventually, He goes up to the Feast in Jn 7, but, He has a "living hope", and maybe this is at least part of what makes the difference. The soul is "alive" when it has this "living" quality by grace, but, even if it engages in correct works (even that portend a physical benefit--eg, dietary law, don't commit adultery, etc), the soul, not having grace, is dead. As Paul says, "Whom I serve in my spirit" : the spirit serving God is not always the same as the body serving God, because the body can do things, but the heart can be elsewhere; when the spirit is engaged, committed, to God, the body is sure to follow. When the spirit is engaged, there is vision that comes at the cost of the innermost parts ("living sacrifice"; "You desire truth in the innermost parts").

 

[soberxp]

When someone seeks affirmation more than the truth, the whole process is thrown into disarray.

Our work or good work not rely on ourselves.
Our work or good work rely on Christ who working in us.
That is faith by work.

You should consider whether you rely on Christ to working in us.

Not rely on what you call work of the flesh.for the work of the flesh we always disagree with what the Christ teachings.

Because I feel that your mind is a little confused, you are always thinking about something, and constantly express it.

By flesh which is always in the storm center.
By Christ which is always in the peace.

 

[GracePeace]

I want to give this some thought before giving real response.

Much love!

I don't mind waiting, because it really does require serious thought (quite a few years preceded even the ability to formulate the questions), just don't forget about it! lol

 

[GracePeace]

@marks I think taking the approach to the issue that I'm suggesting unifies all of the doctrines on justification in Scripture--James 2, Romans 2, etc, etc, etc--WITHOUT sacrificing Ro 5:1, and without having to offer weird, obviously convoluted and dishonest, readings of texts like James 2.

Will wait for your response, though.

 

[Episkopos]

For different reasons, I actually agree with both sides (Episkopos' views and his opponents' views) LOL

Seeing the two sides are spiritual ...versus.... carnal ...how so?

 

[soberxp]

Seeing the two sides are spiritual ...versus.... carnal ...how so?

6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

 

[Episkopos]

17 years here :)

For the record @Episkopos, in this thread has said he is called by God Himself to preach what he preaches. He uses it as an excuse to trample the faith of anyone who disagrees with him. Instead of patience people have to face anger and disdain, instead of showing mercy people face judgement, instead of love insults are your reward.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Nothing of that if you disagree with the message God (as @Episkopos claims) has given him.

The forum is not about ego boosting or affirmation...it is about the truth and argumentation arriving at the truth. If you can't engage ideas, for the sake of greater clarity of the bible narrative...then you are misguided in your purpose here. We see A LOT of immaturity regarding any kind of actual discussion. I get attacked with impunity for speaking deeper truth that almost no one is ready for. Instead of seeking out the truth, people will rely on the carnal nature to attack and discredit anything they don't understand.

When people act without any kind of honesty, humility or godly fear....do you want to be responded to AS IF you had been honest, humble and God-fearing? God is love, but that very love begins at the truth. Read the bible to find out how Jesus corrected and condemned the Pharisees....for the sake of others NOT falling into the same trap. That's what I do here...warn people that won't be warned. Perhaps a few will come to their senses.