Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?
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Yes. This view is based on an interpretation of Rev 1:1. It sees Revelation as using the symbols of the OT to tell the same story of the cross as a Rosetta stone for interpreting type and shadow of the OT. As such, all 'fulfillments' happened at the cross and they are spoken of in the language of the 'mystery hidden from the begining'.
1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, - it's about him
which God gave unto him, - Jesus, not John. A pronoun can't point to someone not previously mentioned
Given to him before the cross, since after the cross he was restored to full glory
to shew unto his servants - he shared the cross with his disciples constantly
things which must shortly come to pass; - the cross that would shortly come to pass
and he sent and signified [it] by his angel - John had been taught by Jesus before the cross, but forgot it as did all the disciples. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to remind them of all they were taught
unto his servant John: - John has now been reminded of what he was taught before the cross and is recording it.
Sometimes it is called 'pre-preterism' to distinguish it from the silliness of full-preterism. It requires an abandonment of the 'scripture is ONLY literal-historical' position which contradicts Jesus saying that it all speaks of him.
The major objection is that it looks like free-for-all allegory to those who don't bother to examine it closely, however, with the rediscovery of Hebrew word formations, it appears that symbols are verifiably defined by Remez, Deresh, and the formations themselves.
But to the OP; what merit is there in parroting someone else's arguments? That's as bad, if not worse than just letting an AI answer for you. You gain nothing in the thought process; the ingesting and ruminating on solutions. I'd be more interested in HOW you come to conclusions rather than hearing what someone else said for the tenth time.
No, it is based on many verses:
"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27
"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1
"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27
"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23
"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34
"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30
"You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9
Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51
"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21:31
"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)
"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7
"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5
"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29
..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51
"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17
"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23
Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20
The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7
It is the last hour
1 John 2:18
"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9
But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2
... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1
Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3
"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6
"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10
And also on the parables of Jesus, like The Parable of the Tenants, on the Olivet Discourse... The expectations and warnings that the end is near is found throughout the New Testament.
I understand that preterism teaches that the resurrection occurred in 70 AD and, furthermore, it was spiritual and not physical. Is my understanding correct?
I'm not disputing that that happened. However, Jesus himself was resurrected PHYSICALLY. Right? So is it possible or even probable that a future, PHYSICAL, resurrection will happen?
I'm not disputing that that happened. However, Jesus himself was resurrected PHYSICALLY. Right? So is it possible or even probable that a future, PHYSICAL, resurrection will happen?
There are different resurrection beliefs amongst preterists, mainly corporeal vs corporate. Partial preterism “usually” affirms corporeal, while full preterism “usually” affirms corporate.
At least to my knowledge, scripture states that only Jesus’ flesh would not see decay - psalm 16:10. I don’t think promise applies to anyone else.
That being said, how does the NT describe the resurrection for everyone else?
“A natural body is sown. A spiritual body is raised” - 1 Corinthians 15:44
So whether corporeal or corporate - “A spiritual body is raised”.
Here's another issue. Jesus said that whoever trusts in him will NEVER die. Therefore, anyone who did so and then died, immediately went to Heaven, right? So why would a believer be dead in the grave until a 70 AD spiritual "resurrection"?
I think that the advantage (or disadvantage?) of preterism is that, it has no dogmatic formulas or creeds. You will find all possible opinions and mixtures in it, because people understand various verses differently.
Some think it happened and that the first church was literally raptured/resurrected, some think it was spiritual and some even think that there will be a third coming with the resurrection.
I have no strong opinion about it, but I personally never truly understood the need for our decomposed physical body to be resurrected or why should we hope for it. It seems to me to be strongly related to the "death of soul without a physical body" view of the Jews (or for example of Adventists), but without that, I do not see a point, much.
"For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands."
2 Corinthians 5:1 (NIV)
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I don’t fully identify with the label “Full Preterist,” though I do affirm the idea of fulfillment—specifically, that the promises and prophecies concerning the end of the Age were completed in the first century. I believe we now live in the new age of the Spirit, as foretold in passages like Hebrews 9:26, which speaks of Christ appearing “once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself,” and Romans 8:2, which declares the law of the Spirit of life has set us free in Christ Jesus.
Christ came as he said he would, and those who were meant to see him did. They were gathered as the bride of Christ, taken from the earth in that generation—just as Matthew 24:31 describes: “He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.” This wasn’t a global spectacle, but a covenantal fulfillment.
I don’t believe unbelievers saw Yeshua in his return. What they did witness—historically documented—was the outpouring of God’s wrath upon Israel, as prophesied in Luke 21:22: “For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” That judgment was visible, but the presence of Christ was revealed only to those who were watching and waiting, the faithful who had eyes to see—echoing Hebrews 9:28, which says Christ “will appear a second time… to those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
I don’t describe his return as merely “spiritual.” It was physical in its taking of the faithful, even if not visible to all. The messengers who witnessed his ascension said he would return in like manner—visibly, tangibly. Acts 1:11 records: “This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go.” He left being seen, and he returned being seen—just not by everyone.
So when people claim I’m a Preterist who believes Jesus came only in spirit, they misunderstand me. I believe he came exactly as foretold—faithfully, visibly, and in fulfillment of the promise. Matthew 16:28 is key here: “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
The problem is, many still expect to see him with their own eyes, in their own land—whether in Canada, America, or elsewhere. But the truth isn’t bound to geography. It’s bound to revelation. As Luke 17:20–21 reminds us, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed… for behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Christ came as he said he would, and those who were meant to see him did. They were gathered as the bride of Christ, taken from the earth in that generation—just as Matthew 24:31 describes: “He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.” This wasn’t a global spectacle, but a covenantal fulfillment.
I don’t believe unbelievers saw Yeshua in his return. What they did witness—historically documented—was the outpouring of God’s wrath upon Israel, as prophesied in Luke 21:22: “For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” That judgment was visible, but the presence of Christ was revealed only to those who were watching and waiting, the faithful who had eyes to see—echoing Hebrews 9:28, which says Christ “will appear a second time… to those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
I don’t describe his return as merely “spiritual.” It was physical in its taking of the faithful, even if not visible to all. The messengers who witnessed his ascension said he would return in like manner—visibly, tangibly. Acts 1:11 records: “This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go.” He left being seen, and he returned being seen—just not by everyone.
So when people claim I’m a Preterist who believes Jesus came only in spirit, they misunderstand me. I believe he came exactly as foretold—faithfully, visibly, and in fulfillment of the promise. Matthew 16:28 is key here: “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
The problem is, many still expect to see him with their own eyes, in their own land—whether in Canada, America, or elsewhere. But the truth isn’t bound to geography. It’s bound to revelation. As Luke 17:20–21 reminds us, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed… for behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
These are the things faithfully on my heart—not because I have physical proof, but because of the testimony of scripture and the witness of faith. I don’t claim to have seen Jesus return, nor do I insist others must believe me. But I do believe he did not fail.
Many continue to assume he has yet to fulfill anything at all. But I believe he has already overcome all things: sin, death (even the second death), hell, and Satan. As John 19:30 records, his final words on the cross were, “It is finished.” That wasn’t a metaphor—it was a declaration of victory.
Hebrews 2:14–15 affirms that through death, Jesus destroyed “the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,” and delivered those who were enslaved by fear. Revelation 1:18 declares that Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades.” These aren’t future promises—they’re present realities for those who believe.
1 Corinthians 15:25–26 says he must reign until all enemies are under his feet, and “the last enemy to be destroyed is death.” I believe that reign began in the first century, and that destruction was inaugurated—not postponed.
I don’t ask anyone to take my word for it. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 urges us to “test all things; hold fast what is good.” That’s my invitation: don’t believe me—search the scriptures, wrestle with the text, and seek the Spirit’s witness.
Because if Christ truly overcame all things, then we are not waiting for him to succeed. We are living in the wake of his triumph.
You mentioned "opinion". I'll share mine. I'm interested in understanding and either affirming or rejecting full preterism. However, it doesn't in any way affect my daily walk with Christ. It is my opinion to trust God's plan for each of us and to be ok with not knowing everything. All that matters is that we love and obey the Father, love another, and look to Christ as our Savior. Beyond that, it's all academic.
It may change your view of the world and your expectations. And, of course, your view of the texts in the New Testament. Futurists are mostly pessimistic/anxious and they expect and try to see the world to be worse and worse and ending in some global planetary tyranny, massacres and catastrophes. Then literal 1,000 years of the physical kingdom of God and then a massacre again.
While preterists are mostly optimistic - that the kingdom of God will be spreading and taking victory over more and more areas of life and that the quality of life will get better and better.
Also, the overall focus is different - futurists focus on the Middle East and on political events, are constantly expecting and looking for Antichrist, the mark of the beast, various kind of signs, predicting rapture dates etc.
While preterists focus on the advance and progress of humanity since the first century and on the spiritual realm. And they are also sometimes interested in history :)
So, it is quite a fundamental mindset shift, for example from dispensationalism to preterism. However, it is not changing things like salvation or day to day good works.
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and I would agree -grammar, syntax, and context seem to point that 8:11 is about the resurrection of our mortal bodies. I should be clear that a “spiritual body is raised” is a physical transformation according to many (not all) preterist understandings.
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Does it? I am personally unsure what the sentence is saying, exactly. The formulation is a bit vague and the context is not about the resurrection of bodies, I would say. It is rather against focusing on flesh.
1.) The surrounding context talks about death in the flesh/life in the spirit (vs 1-8), AND the future glory of the redemption of our bodies (vs 12-25).
2.) “Kai” in vs 11 is translated as likewise or also, indicating a parallel: just as Jesus was raised from the dead by the Spirit, so LIKEWISE your mortal bodies will be given life by the Spirit dwelling in you.
2.) “will give life” (vs 11 ), in reference to mortal bodies, is a future tense verb. “Dwelling”, in regards to the “spirit who dwells in you”, at the end of vs 11, is a substantival participle (present participle active) due to the article tou preceding it.
All together, with context, grammar, and syntax, vs 11 can be understood as: your mortal bodies will be given life in the future by the Spirit, that is presently dwelling within you, like how Christ was raised from the dead by the same Spirit.
I’m not so sure the regeneration argument for vs 11 is more convincing than the resurrection argument.
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The trumpet judgments of Revelation 8-11:
Seven angels blow seven trumpets. The trumpets set in motion seven judgments leading up to the Second Coming. The trumpets form the second cycle out of several that depict God’s rule over history from various angles. Like the trumpets used in the battle of Jericho (Joshua 6), these trumpets lead up to the fall of the worldly city (Revelation 11:13), and in the seventh trumpet the complete victory of God arrives. The trumpet plagues are reminiscent of the plagues on Egypt, signifying God’s judgments on idolatrous power. The wicked sometimes suffer even in this life in a way that presages their final punishment (Revelation 20:11-15). The vision depicts the self-defeating and tormenting nature of wickedness in the human soul. This general principle has multiple fulfillments. Within the Roman Empire (because the vision was given to John at the height of the Roman empire, but it can be applied to empires of all times through the church age), it represents how people giving themselves to the worship of idols and the worship of the Emperor suffer torments of soul. In addition, as God brings the structures of the Empire under judgment, people may experience suffering through social, political, and military failures as well. In the future, just before the Second Coming, judgments of God against the wicked will intensify. The general principle applies to the entire period of the church age. Wickedness brings suffering rather than the hoped-for success (cf. Proverbs 10:6, 7, 9, 11, etc.). Like Proverbs, Revelation delineates a general pattern. But it is also honest about the fact that the saints may for a time suffer grievously (Revelation 6:9-10). Within this world order, justice does not always triumph quickly. Finally, the announcement of no more delay (Revelation 10:6) indicates that the consummation of all God’s prophetic plans comes with the seventh trumpet. Like the cycle of seven seals, the cycle of trumpets leads up to Christ's Second Coming. Here, the angel underlines explicitly the significance of the Second Coming as the wrapping up of God’s plan for history (Ephesians 1:10).
Grace and peace to all.
Seven angels blow seven trumpets. The trumpets set in motion seven judgments leading up to the Second Coming. The trumpets form the second cycle out of several that depict God’s rule over history from various angles. Like the trumpets used in the battle of Jericho (Joshua 6), these trumpets lead up to the fall of the worldly city (Revelation 11:13), and in the seventh trumpet the complete victory of God arrives. The trumpet plagues are reminiscent of the plagues on Egypt, signifying God’s judgments on idolatrous power. The wicked sometimes suffer even in this life in a way that presages their final punishment (Revelation 20:11-15). The vision depicts the self-defeating and tormenting nature of wickedness in the human soul. This general principle has multiple fulfillments. Within the Roman Empire (because the vision was given to John at the height of the Roman empire, but it can be applied to empires of all times through the church age), it represents how people giving themselves to the worship of idols and the worship of the Emperor suffer torments of soul. In addition, as God brings the structures of the Empire under judgment, people may experience suffering through social, political, and military failures as well. In the future, just before the Second Coming, judgments of God against the wicked will intensify. The general principle applies to the entire period of the church age. Wickedness brings suffering rather than the hoped-for success (cf. Proverbs 10:6, 7, 9, 11, etc.). Like Proverbs, Revelation delineates a general pattern. But it is also honest about the fact that the saints may for a time suffer grievously (Revelation 6:9-10). Within this world order, justice does not always triumph quickly. Finally, the announcement of no more delay (Revelation 10:6) indicates that the consummation of all God’s prophetic plans comes with the seventh trumpet. Like the cycle of seven seals, the cycle of trumpets leads up to Christ's Second Coming. Here, the angel underlines explicitly the significance of the Second Coming as the wrapping up of God’s plan for history (Ephesians 1:10).
Grace and peace to all.
I was in an online preterist community recently but I left because many of them were obnoxious and despise Israel. Recognizing them by their fruits I moved on.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You seem to know a lot about poor responses, as evidenced by most (all?) of your posts.
You should try to read it with an unbiased perspective and also think about the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that Jesus came in 70 AD or that anyone was resurrected or gathered at that time.
You are unable to demonstrate that Jesus came, that the resurrection of the dead occurred or that any gathering of the elect occurred in 70 AD. The onus is on you to back up that theory and you can't do it.
Nowhere in scripture does it speak of an "old Jewish age". You are making that up. Jesus spoke of "this age" and "the age to come" in the sense of this age being the time during which people get married and they die with the age to come being the time that would occur after the dead are resurrected during which people will no longer get married or die (Luke 20:34-36). So, He spoke of "this age" as being temporal and "the age to come" as being eternal. That doesn't line up with your understanding of the imaginary "old Jewish age".
Wrong. You are making up a nonexistent age that Jesus (nor anyone else) ever referred to in scripture in order to support your doctrine. I, on the other hand, am going by how Jesus understood "this age" and "the age to come".
I recommend that you ask God for wisdom so that you stop believing in this preterist nonsense that you currently believe (James 1:5-7).
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
But, there are writings by Josephus and others in much detail about what happened in 70 AD. But, nothing written about two dudes being resurrected and flying up towards heaven? Why not?
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