Ps 51:17All I know is...I don't want to stand before a HOLY God with nothing but my own works to justify me
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah
- Thread starter Episkopos
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The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
lol, is that the "hopium" of the masses that Marx was talking about? Hopium is good, because it gives us the peace that passes understanding.
Genuine humility is a fruit of the SPIRIT.....very distinct and discernable from the kind of false "voluntary" and self-righteous humility that humans can produce.But barring eternal works prepared in advance....there is always the human qualities of humility and godly fear that God accepts from us.
This is false. Genuine humility is a fruit not only of the Spirit but also those who see themselves accurately before God. There is a human humility...that God accepts. Just like there is a human righteousness that God accepts. The fear of the Lord is also natural to those who can accept God's greatness and terror as something real.
So again, your imagination stops what is real in order to focus on the evil bent in human nature...that tries to pretend something is there when it isn't. Wait a minute...could you have been speaking of your own motivation when you mentioned self-righteous humility?
Seems you are isolating certain scriptures from it's "gospel environment".
Then you get into the problem that the religious leaders under the Law had......how much "doing" justifies you? Tithe of your tiniest herbs? Don't do any work at all on the Sabbath, even to help people or animals in trouble? Not cooking a calf in it's mother's milk also means not even letting the same dishes and pots touch each other that has any milk and any meat from any cattle? It never ends and it takes one's eyes off Jesus onto one's self, and you can never be good enough.
It shouldn't be hard to see from scripture that the works that please God proceed from FAITH. Without FAITH it is impossible to please Him.
And I want to add, it isn't about quantity but about the quality of our works, whether they have been WROUGHT IN GOD.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
The reality is, you treat people with disrespect who point out your false theology.
They in turn treat you as you treat them, and then you whine again and again about being "attacked".
Try playing the adult more and whine less..
That'll be something new for you to experience.
You Gospel is cursed, Galatians 1:8 states........... and you have defined the true Gospel as false.
So, you are the problem... as you are the strife, and your theology is anti-Cross and anti-Grace, and that makes you a person who teaches against truth, while you falsely claim you are telling the truth.
So, let me show you this...
God's Grace is "the righteousness of Faith".
This was established with Abraham, before the law, when "Abrham's faith was counted by God as righteousness".
Paul teaches that our faith also, will be counted the same way, and God will impute to the born again the same righteousness that was given to Abraham, and this is why Paul teaches that Abraham is the" father of our Faith."
This is God's "GRACE, = (imputed righteousness) through FAITH".
That is How God offers Salvation, and you are 40 yrs claiming to be saved, and have no understanding of this and in fact deny it and claims its "delusion".
The "delusion" is what you are selling as your "works" to be righteous" false gospel, vs God's "Gift of Righteousness".
You're just a devout Legalist pretending to understand Salvation.
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Your gospel environment, as you put it, is not accurate to the the whole counsel of God. You are trying to understanding a tree by looking at an acorn.
That's not the point of the law. Jesus said that it was good to tithe....not wrong. But that there are weightier matters to consider. It's about not being so narrow minded. Like the narrow-mindedness of only seeing everything through a "gospel lens" without seeing how it fits into a bigger picture. So you are a victim of the very thing you are trying to warn against...
To be pleasing to God is greater than to be accepted by Him. To be a Bride is better than to be a guest. But you have ways to obscure such differences...in order to ignore the truth.
Being narrow minded is NOT the narrow way Jesus speaks of. Being narrow minded is the way of pretenders...namers and claimers who have no idea of reality.
But how can someone who doesn't know God see themselves accurately before Him?This is false. Genuine humility is a fruit not only of the Spirit but also those who see themselves accurately before God. There is a human humility...that God accepts. Just like there is a human righteousness that God accepts. The fear of the Lord is also natural to those who can accept God's greatness and terror as something real.
So again, your imagination stops what is real in order to focus on the evil bent in human nature...that tries to pretend something is there when it isn't. Wait a minute...could you have been speaking of your own motivation when you mentioned self-righteous humility?
The gospel IS the bigger picture, not an acorn. It is nothing less than the mystery of God hid from the foundation of the world.
Behold
Well-Known Member
All the born again are "In Christ", as this is to become a "new creation in Christ"....as "ONE with God".
This is not a 'empty assertion".....its a fact of the born again Spirit, as if you are not "in Christ", you are not a Christian.
Here is one of Paul's verses that speak about it..
2 Corinthians 5:17
""Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.""
Also, "walking in the spirit" is not something you do with your feet, or by works, and this is not understood by Episkapos .., as his entire theology is built on self effort to try to become something before God, whereas Salvation is God's Gift that instantly estalbishes you as something eternal in the KOG.
Heretics can never understand this, and are alway trying to perform for God as their idea of how to be spiritual, and its completely FAKE, and completely rejected by God.
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The gospel is the culmination of all God's doings over history. You ignore all the conditions and root causes to embrace a gospel according to your imagination...having no root in reality. Your idea of grace is lawless. The church is the pillar and ground of truth. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life.
What you have is a figurative imagination of the gospel that has no grounding in the truth. The acorn you see is a representation of something real and alive....but you falsify the tree based on your grasp of something that proceeds from it. The gospel proceeds from the truth. It is NOT stand alone and able to be made into something figurative.
Many will say Lord Lord...but these have divorced grace from the law, seeing the latter as getting in the way of an ideology that is lawless.
The purpose of grace is to fulfill the law...DO the commandments, walk in perfection. The perfect has come..obey the law, be holy. The power of Christ over sin is the gospel. Obeying the gospel is not so easy. It does not require an imagination. It requires faith. Not beliefs about Jesus.
You don't understand what a conscience can do. Go to a poor country...and ask the humble. Go to a poor country and ask the devout...why do you fear God?
Go as someone who desperately needs to escape a futile life of pretensions.
Can a person be "blinded" by grace? Yes. "Grace is deceitful". A person can deny the very words of God in order to try grabbing hold of something that should only be handled with fear.
Abel was deemed righteous by God. Was he imputed with a righteousness not his own? Of course not. He is called "righteous Abel"
Is this understood by religious ideologues today? No. These are blind to the truth
Why deny what is plainly related in Scripture? It is because the only kind of righteousness that the unrighteous have is SELF-righteousness...a charge which they try passing off onto the righteous. Then they claim to have the righteousness of God IN THEIR unrighteousness.
And this is self-righteousness...an imputation of righteousness to oneself...and not just a human righteousness like Abel, no, these claim to be far greater than Abel by imputing God's righteousness to themselves. A crime that will see God's wrath.
One could always repent, humble oneself and stop being more like Cain than Abel ....by attacking the righteous.
Abel was deemed righteous by God. Was he imputed with a righteousness not his own? Of course not. He is called "righteous Abel"
Is this understood by religious ideologues today? No. These are blind to the truth
Why deny what is plainly related in Scripture? It is because the only kind of righteousness that the unrighteous have is SELF-righteousness...a charge which they try passing off onto the righteous. Then they claim to have the righteousness of God IN THEIR unrighteousness.
And this is self-righteousness...an imputation of righteousness to oneself...and not just a human righteousness like Abel, no, these claim to be far greater than Abel by imputing God's righteousness to themselves. A crime that will see God's wrath.
One could always repent, humble oneself and stop being more like Cain than Abel ....by attacking the righteous.
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soberxp
Well-Known Member
The Gospel of Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Cain was not like that.....so God sees a man's heart.
If you are leading by Holy spirit, your words shall be Read as your mind in peace.
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I've read through your last several posts, and I'm not sure I'm clear on your view here.
We have peace with God through our faith in Christ, and by that same faith we have access into the grace in which we stand. Salvation and sanctification are by faith in Jesus.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works within you both to will and to do what pleases Him.
I appreciate the time you've spent thinking this through, sometimes that's what it takes!
Is the heart of your question to ask how it is that we have peace with God through faith, and yet our peace can be gone when we sin? And your answer is that grace supplies our peace, and even our spiritual life, while sin, since it doesn't come from faith, denies grace, and now without grace, we don't have peace, and we don't have life?
Am I tracking you correctly?
Much love!
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- When a person says that they read the bible through the lens of the gospel in general or the gospel of Paul in particular...they are saying that they are reading through an indoctrination...a slant or twist...that allows them to ignore vast portions of the bible, even the words of Jesus and the many times it says.."thus says the Lord". These are thrown away as nothing in favour of the preferred ideology that has been cobbled together through ignorance and misunderstanding.
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For me, true humility is to know and accept the unvarnished truth about one's self, which also results in contrition, sorrow over one's state. These are not the sorts of things one tends to brag about.
Much love!
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
To clarify, when Paul says "having BEGUN by the Spirit [Grace and faith], are you now BEING PERFRCTED by the flesh [Law and works of the Law]", but, then, distinguishes the one from the other in...
5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. What matters is faith expressing itself through love.
So, this is Paul's "solution" to their error of seeking to become perfect by the flesh, or "works of the Law"--ie, his solution to seeking perfection (or living as a Christian) by "works of the Law" is not solely the phrase "faith in Christ alone", therefore, what he prescribes, which is serving in the new way of Grace through faith working by love, cannot, at some other time (seen elsewhere in his writings), be thought of or defined as "works of the Law" (it is literally his prescription over against "seeking justificatiom by works of the Law").
Having said that, this "prescription" for "beginning and becoming perfect by Grace and faith, not by works of the Law" can be overlaid on to, and compared with, the prescription for Christian living he gives in, for instance, in Romans 14, where it is taught that the rule for Christian living, in general, is that "each man must be fully convinced in his own mind [in what ever he does]" (Ro 14:5) : in both cases, he is calling for serving not in oldness of the letter, but in newness of the Spirit, walking in faith working by love--and the significance of breaking this rule (whether it is because went against the conviction of love which the Lord worked in your heart, or because you completely deserted the concept of walking by God's conviction, because you went fully to the flesh by going to the Law which points you to your flesh (Ro 8:3)), in Ro 14:23, is that it constitutes a "sin" ("faith works by love" : walking in faith is walking in love, fulfilling the entire Law, whereas "sin" is "missing the mark", which mark is, generally, love, but, specifically, God's love as revealed to us in Christ, so seeing Christ and walking in Christ is the walking in faith and love and hope of God's glory prescribed by Paul in Gal 5), resulting in "condemnation", or the compromising of one's justification.
So, the question has been as to how to bridge this gap between the reality of the possibility of the loss of justification if you don't walk in faith and love (Ro 14:23) with the reality that you are justified by faith and not "works of the Law" (Ro 5:1), and it may be that, as Paul begins his rejoinder to the Galatians' madness, "It was before your eyes I portrayed Christ as crucified". Their seeking perfection by works of the Law was, somehow, also a denial of faith in Christ. The justification and peace is to be reached prior to the walking in faith and love, and if the justification and peace can be lost during the becoming perfect phase, this doesn't necessarily mean that the justification is being earned in the working phase, but could be described as merely being remained in (the basis for the justification and peace has not changed, but you did not remain in the relationship--whether because you doubted His reason for receiving you in the first place (Gal3:1), or because you, in some other way (irrespective the details, it is described as not walking in faith) did not comport yourself with that freely-given relationship/eternal life), so that justification and peace is not being sought after (as if it was not had) but being held to and cherished, and "sin" (whether this "sin" is breaking either of the two sides of the one "command"--whether it is doubting the Name of God's Son, or not loving one another 1 John 3:23, 24) would be like dropping what you already were given freely.
FAITH in what Jesus did for us on the cross is not vain imagination. And stop mistaking me for someone who doesn't believe that by works faith is made perfect (works that proceed from faith/spirit, not from our flesh).
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