Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh no! The end of the world!!!!!! A human made some assumption!

But your assumption that it is NOT about the temple is not assumption at all!!! Of course!!!!

Childish.

How ironic for you to call him childish while you are acting childishly.

Better try to explain why there is no mention of the greatest catastrophe in the history of Jerusalem, of Judaism and of Judea, in the book.

Because the book is not about Jerusalem, Judaism and Judea! Hello? It's about Jesus Christ and His church along and the enemies of Jesus Christ and His church.

 

[grafted branch]

Here is what you said to me in another thread just a few days ago …

Scripture is very clear that the flood was global. Do you get truth from scripture or from secular scientists who hate God and scripture?

Here’s your argument now …

there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that Jesus came in 70 AD or that anyone was resurrected or gathered at that time.

Can you tell us if you get your truth from scripture or from secular sources when it comes to a soon coming of Jesus?

 

[claninja]

Here is what you said to me in another thread just a few days ago …

Here’s your argument now …

Can you tell us if you get your truth from scripture or from secular sources when it comes to a soon coming of Jesus?

Interesting argument; on one hand the flood is global because "the Bible says so" despite secular sources disagreeing, but on the other, Jesus didn't "come on the clouds" within the first century generation because secular sources can't confirm, despite the Bible saying "it would happen in this generation".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is what you said to me in another thread just a few days ago …

Here’s your argument now …

Can you tell us if you get your truth from scripture or from secular sources when it comes to a soon coming of Jesus?

LOL. I get my truth from scripture, of course. Nice try, but you're not comparing like things here. There is no evidence in scripture, science or any historical records of Jesus returning in 70 AD with a resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering of the elect occurring at that time. There is evidence in scripture of the flood being global and secular scientists say there is evidence of the flood being local or regional instead. So, why would you choose to believe those secular scientists over scripture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Interesting argument; on one hand the flood is global because "the Bible says so" despite secular sources disagreeing, but on the other, Jesus didn't "come on the clouds" within the first century generation because secular sources can't confirm, despite the Bible saying "it would happen in this generation".

You, too, are missing the difference between the two statements I made. And I know it's because you two don't like me because of my disdain for your false preterist doctrine and you wish so badly to be able to say "Gotcha!" to me. Keep trying.

In one case, there is no historical or scientific evidence offered to back up a claim and in the other one, there is. In the case where there is scientific evidence offered, why would you choose to believe secular scientists over scripture?

 

[grafted branch]

LOL. I get my truth from scripture, of course. Nice try, but you're not comparing like things here. There is no evidence in scripture, science or any historical records of Jesus returning in 70 AD with a resurrection of the dead in Christ and gathering of the elect occurring at that time. There is evidence in scripture of the flood being global and secular scientists say there is evidence of the flood being local or regional instead.

What are you talking about? There are multiple verses that point to a soon, near, at the door, coming of Christ.

It appears you are relying on secular evidence to say a coming didn’t happen in the first century and therefore the verses that talk about a soon coming need to be interpreted in some other way.

So, why would you choose to believe those secular scientists over scripture?

I believe the Bible and I already pointed out how the Bible can be interpreted to support a local flood. You claimed we should just believe the Bible and not the scientist but now when it comes to a soon coming of Christ you are flip flopping and saying we shouldn’t just go with Bible, we need to look at the secular evidence first, which doesn’t confirm there was a coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What are you talking about?

You can read. I didn't stutter.

There are multiple verses that point to a soon, near, at the door, coming of Christ.

There are none that talk about a literal soon, near coming of Christ from the human perspective. That is your false interpretation of those verses.

It appears you are relying on secular evidence to say a coming didn’t happen in the first century and therefore the verses that talk about a soon coming need to be interpreted in some other way.

No, I rely on scripture. I'm just pointing out that there is also no historical evidence of that, either. Why would that be the case if that happened at that time? You see all the historical documents relating to the destruction of Jerusalem and specific things that happened around that time, but nothing about Jesus returning or anyone being resurrected or anyone being gathered? If that's what happened, why would there be nothing at all written about it like there is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and other details about what happened at that time?

I believe the Bible and I already pointed out how the Bible can be interpreted to support a local flood.

It can't.

You claimed we should just believe the Bible and not the scientist but now when it comes to a soon coming of Christ you are flip flopping and saying we shouldn’t just go with Bible, we need to look at the secular evidence first, which doesn’t confirm there was a coming.

You are being ridiculous here. You are just embarrassing. I did NOT say we should look at the secular evidence first. Stop misrepresenting what I'm saying.

 

[grafted branch]

You can read. I didn't stutter.

You didn’t stutter but you said there is no evidence in scripture of Jesus returning in 70AD.

There are none that talk about a literal soon, near coming of Christ from the human perspective. That is your false interpretation of those verses.

And I can use that same argument and say there no verses that talk about a global flood. It’s only your false interpretation of those verses.

No, I rely on scripture. I'm just pointing out that there is also no historical evidence of that, either. Why would that be the case if that happened at that time? You see all the historical documents relating to the destruction of Jerusalem and specific things that happened around that time, but nothing about Jesus returning or anyone being resurrected or anyone being gathered? If that's what happened, why would there be nothing at all written about it like there is about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and other details about what happened at that time?

I rely on scripture also, I can also point out that there is no historical evidence of a global flood.

It can't.

It can.

You are being ridiculous here. You are just embarrassing.

You are also be ridiculous and embarrassing yourself.

I did NOT say we should look at the secular evidence first. Stop misrepresenting what I'm saying.

Then why don’t you just believe the Bible first and admit there was a soon coming instead of bring up secular history?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You didn’t stutter but you said there is no evidence in scripture of Jesus returning in 70AD.

In my opinion, there isn't.

And I can use that same argument and say there no verses that talk about a global flood. It’s only your false interpretation of those verses.

Well, I think we are discovering once again that talking to each other is a complete waste of time. Which is something we already discovered months ago. I guess you forgot.

I rely on scripture also, I can also point out that there is no historical evidence of a global flood.


It can.


You are also be ridiculous and embarrassing yourself.

Yawn.

Then why don’t you just believe the Bible first and admit there was a soon coming instead of bring up secular history?

Because there wasn't. Hello? I brought up secular history only because we all use historical documents to confirm that Jerusalem was destroyed just as Jesus said it would be. So, why nothing about Him returning at that time and about a mass resurrection of the dead and gathering of the elect at that time? That's something at least worth considering, but the main evidence we should look at is the Bible, of course. And the Bible does not teach preterism, as you understand it.

 

[grafted branch]

Because there wasn't. Hello? I brought up secular history only because we all use historical documents to confirm that Jerusalem was destroyed just as Jesus said it would be.

There wasn’t a global flood. Hello? I only brought up secular history to confirm the flood was local.

So, why nothing about Him returning at that time and about a mass resurrection of the dead and gathering of the elect at that time?

There is, it’s all in the Bible.

And the Bible does not teach preterism, as you understand it.

The Bible doesn’t teach Amill, as you understand it.

———————————-

Do you see how your own arguments fall apart when they can be used against you?

There should be a consistent way of interpreting scripture that holds true no matter what verses we look at. It appears to me that you have multiple methods of interpreting scripture and you choose the results you want first then apply whatever method gives you that result.

 

[rwb]

Interesting argument; on one hand the flood is global because "the Bible says so" despite secular sources disagreeing, but on the other, Jesus didn't "come on the clouds" within the first century generation because secular sources can't confirm, despite the Bible saying "it would happen in this generation".

That's one of the problems with Preterits! You want to argue from Scripture except when Scripture doesn't fit your doctrine. Then you appeal to secular sources. SI makes an argument for the flood being universal based upon what is written in the Word of God. Equally he makes an argument that Christ did not come in 70 AD because that is NOWHERE found in the Word of God. IOW his doctrine is informed upon what sayeth the Bible, and not what sayeth Josephus and other secular sources!

 

[rwb]

What are you talking about? There are multiple verses that point to a soon, near, at the door, coming of Christ.

And yet NOWHERE in Scripture can we read all that is written came to pass in 70 AD!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There wasn’t a global flood. Hello? I only brought up secular history to confirm the flood was local.


There is, it’s all in the Bible.


The Bible doesn’t teach Amill, as you understand it.

———————————-

Do you see how your own arguments fall apart when they can be used against you?

No, not really. I know it's an utter waste of time trying to reason with someone like you. And you know we are not able to discuss these things. We already have proven that multiple times when trying to discuss scripture.

There should be a consistent way of interpreting scripture that holds true no matter what verses we look at. It appears to me that you have multiple methods of interpreting scripture and you choose the results you want first then apply whatever method gives you that result.

It appears to me that you have no idea of what you're talking about and it's an utter waste of time trying to get you to see that, as I've seen several times before when trying to reason with you.

 

[grafted branch]

IOW his doctrine is informed upon what sayeth the Bible, and not what sayeth Josephus and other secular sources!

Alright, here’s the reality, all of us, Premil, Amill, and preterist, use secular information when looking at the Bible.

Is the earth flat? Well the church use to think so based solely on Biblical verses. The overwhelming amount of secular information points to a spherical earth, so much so that anyone who would even try to claim a flat earth is going to be looked upon as an unintelligent person or someone who is attempting to deceive others.

Since your Amill, you have to look at secular information in order for the day of the Lord not to come upon you as a thief. Also you have to compare the secular information against what the Bible says to determine if Satan has been loosed or not.

The problem is you’re not willing to consider secular information if it goes against your beliefs. You just make the claim that you’re only using what’s written in the Bible. Guess what, the Bible doesn’t say the earth is round, it says the earth has four corners. That’s why the argument that we should always only use the Bible is flawed. We need to use common sense.

 

[MatthewG]

This is not an argument, but this is just a faithful testimony concerning the 1st century bride of Christ.

I don’t fully identify with the label “Full Preterist,” though I do affirm the idea of fulfillment—specifically, that the promises and prophecies concerning the end of the Age were completed in the first century. I believe we now live in the new age of the Spirit, as foretold in passages like Hebrews 9:26, which speaks of Christ appearing “once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself,” and Romans 8:2, which declares the law of the Spirit of life has set us free in Christ Jesus.


Christ came as he said he would, and those who were meant to see him did. They were gathered as the bride of Christ, taken from the earth in that generation—just as Matthew 24:31 describes: “He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.” This wasn’t a global spectacle, but a covenantal fulfillment.


I don’t believe unbelievers saw Yeshua in his return. What they did witness—historically documented—was the outpouring of God’s wrath upon Israel, as prophesied in Luke 21:22: “For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” That judgment was visible, but the presence of Christ was revealed only to those who were watching and waiting, the faithful who had eyes to see—echoing Hebrews 9:28, which says Christ “will appear a second time… to those who are eagerly waiting for him.”


I don’t describe his return as merely “spiritual.” It was physical in its taking of the faithful, even if not visible to all. The messengers who witnessed his ascension said he would return in like manner—visibly, tangibly. Acts 1:11 records: “This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go.” He left being seen, and he returned being seen—just not by everyone.


So when people claim I’m a Preterist who believes Jesus came only in spirit, they misunderstand me. I believe he came exactly as foretold—faithfully, visibly, and in fulfillment of the promise. Matthew 16:28 is key here: “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


The problem is, many still expect to see him with their own eyes, in their own land—whether in Canada, America, or elsewhere. But the truth isn’t bound to geography. It’s bound to revelation. As Luke 17:20–21 reminds us, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed… for behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

These are the things faithfully on my heart—not because I have physical proof, but because of the testimony of scripture and the witness of faith. I don’t claim to have seen Jesus return, nor do I insist others must believe me. But I do believe he did not fail.


Many continue to assume he has yet to fulfill anything at all. But I believe he has already overcome all things: sin, death (even the second death), hell, and Satan. As John 19:30 records, his final words on the cross were, “It is finished.” That wasn’t a metaphor—it was a declaration of victory.


Hebrews 2:14–15 affirms that through death, Jesus destroyed “the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,” and delivered those who were enslaved by fear. Revelation 1:18 declares that Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades.” These aren’t future promises—they’re present realities for those who believe.


1 Corinthians 15:25–26 says he must reign until all enemies are under his feet, and “the last enemy to be destroyed is death.” I believe that reign began in the first century, and that destruction was inaugurated—not postponed.


I don’t ask anyone to take my word for it. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 urges us to “test all things; hold fast what is good.” That’s my invitation: don’t believe me—search the scriptures, wrestle with the text, and seek the Spirit’s witness.


Because if Christ truly overcame all things, then we are not waiting for him to succeed. We are living in the wake of his triumph.

 

[HealthyShape]

How ironic for you to call him childish while you are acting childishly.

He was childish criticizing assuming while he also assumes everything, I was childish overplaying the irony of it and you were childish joining it.

Because the book is not about Jerusalem, Judaism and Judea! Hello? It's about Jesus Christ and His church along and the enemies of Jesus Christ and His church.

The book mentions important cities several times, including Jerusalem. For example:

"...the great city where their Lord was crucified"
Revelation 11:8

 

[R.C.Jones]

No, it is based on many verses:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

"You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21:31

"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)

"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11


"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51


"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2

... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10

And also on the parables of Jesus, like The Parable of the Tenants, on the Olivet Discourse... The expectations and warnings that the end is near is found throughout the New Testament.

Sorry. You did not respond to my post. "This view" referred to pre-preterism. Your response merely repeated your position without asking a single question to clarify the point actually made. Good luck.

 

[HealthyShape]

You should try to read it with an unbiased perspective

I do.

and also think about the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that Jesus came in 70 AD or that anyone was resurrected or gathered at that time.

Except of the words of Jesus and of all the apostles. Many things written in the Bible are not evidenced by external sources, for example events in the book of Genesis, Exodus, Jonah, plenty of things in Gospels etc.

You are unable to demonstrate that Jesus came, that the resurrection of the dead occurred or that any gathering of the elect occurred in 70 AD. The onus is on you to back up that theory and you can't do it.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

"You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lk 3:7-9

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
Lk 11:50-51

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. "
Lk 21:31

"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)

"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51

"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2

... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"Look, he is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.”
Rev 1:7

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10

 

[HealthyShape]

But, there are writings by Josephus and others in much detail about what happened in 70 AD. But, nothing written about two dudes being resurrected and flying up towards heaven? Why not?

I don't know.

 

[HealthyShape]

Good luck.

Thanks.