Jesus is God, before the New Testament!

[bro.tan]

This statement was made by one of Jesus disciples named Thomas. The power of this statement blows by the average Christian like a jumbo jet.

It was made after Jesus had been raised from the grave after his death on the cross. (John 20:19-28) (v.19)" Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, peace be unto you. (v.20) And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. (v.24) But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Did-y-mus, was not with them when Jesus came. (v.25) The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he saith unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and trust my hand into his side, I will not believe." Now that's a reasonable statement Thomas made, saying he'll believe it when he sees it. (v.26) "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, peace be unto you. (v.27) Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." Then Thomas made one of the most over looked statements in the bible, when he said unto Jesus (v.28) "MY LORD AND MY GOD".

Jesus after his resurrection from the dead was returning to his former glory, God. (John 17:5) "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Yes, with thee before the world was. That's why after Jesus was raised from the dead he made this statement. (Mat. 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." It's hard for some people to understand that Jesus came through the Virgin Mary in the flesh, but he has always existed as a spirit being.

Let's move on to (Ex. 3:13-14) And Moses said unto God Behold when I come unto the children of Israel and shall say unto them. The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you: and they shall say unto me, what is his

name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel I am hath sent me unto you. Now Moses asked a direct question and God gave him a direct answer that's very clear.

Let's take a look at; (John 8:56-59) When Jesus was speaking to some of the Jews saying (v.56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him (Jesus) thou are not yet fifty years old and hast thou seen Abraham. Now listen closely how Jesus answered. Jesus said unto them verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was I am. I am, not I will be, or I was, but I am. That's forever present, the one who became known as Jesus was always around, he is the member of the Godhead that became known as the Son. In the beginning there was no Father or Son just God, or Godhead or God family, God is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim, a uniplural word. Like the word man, it covers the species male and female. (Gen. 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE AND FEMALE CREATED HE THEM.

 

[bro.tan]

So we are all members of the man family, the woman (whom Adam named) is the female species of the man family, let's continue. (John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Those are absolutes "No MAN" and AT ANY TIME" (Ex. 24:9-11) then went Moses, and Aaron, Na-dab, and A-bi'hu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. (v.10) And they saw the GOD OF ISRAEL; and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. (v.11) And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also THEY SAW GOD. And did eat and drink. Now do we have a contradiction in the bible? No, we are going to let the bible interpret the bible. (John 5:37, 39, 43) (v.37) And the father himself which hath sent me, have borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice (the father's) at any time nor seen his shape. So who was it that the 74 elders saw in the mount. None other than the one who became known as Jesus. The one who became known as the Father does not deal with flesh, never has never will. Jesus told you with his own words, (v.39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. The scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi. Jesus told you with his own mouth. (v.43) I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. If Jesus came in his Father's name, then what was Jesus' name before he came in the flesh? It was GOD ALMIGHTY! (Ex. 6:2-3) (v.2) And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: (v.3) And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JE-HO'-VAH was I not known to them.

 

[Davy]

The more accurate reality is that Lord Jesus really never stopped... being God, even when He was born in the flesh of woman's womb.

The reason for that is simple, and is based on how God's creation for those born in the flesh works for this world. God created us with a spirit, a soul, and flesh and bones. And that involves TWO different dimensions of existence, the earthly vs the heavenly (Hebrews 4:12).

That means Jesus' Spirit inside His flesh body as God was still there all the time while in that flesh body. He never stopped being God even in the flesh. And as a matter of fact, that is one Apostle John's points, for those who refuse that Christ came in the flesh like John said, is an antichrist. The idea of The Christ always points to His Spirit, and not the flesh. Jesus as you showed, was The Christ before being born in the flesh like us. John's point thus was that GOD came in the flesh (1 John 4:3).

Matthew 1:23 points this out too with Christ's Name of "Emmanuel", which there we are told means, 'God with us'.

 

[bro.tan]

In the scriptures it's written in (Isaiah 9: 6) Tells us that; For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting father, The prince of Peace. (Mat. 1:23) BEHOLD, A VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME EM-MAN'-UEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.

That’s right the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us. (1Tim. 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the SPIRIT, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Is that so hard to see that the one that became known as the Son was simply known as God before he became flesh?

Let's continue, (1Cor. 10:1-4) (v1) more over brethen, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (v.2 ) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (v.3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (v.4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that ROCK was CHRIST. That's right that ROCK was Christ. It was Jesus that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness. (Ex. 13:21) And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:.

(Deut. 32:4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a GOD of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Yes that Rock is also GOD. The Old Testament tells you time after time about Jesus, you must have your spiritual eyes on. And you can not, I mean you can not have preconceived notions already; you must let the bible interpret the bible. In (Isaiah. 28:9-10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. In other words let the bible interpret the bible.

 

[Jack]

This statement was made by one of Jesus disciples named Thomas. The power of this statement blows by the average Christian like a jumbo jet.

It was made after Jesus had been raised from the grave after his death on the cross. (John 20:19-28) (v.19)" Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, peace be unto you. (v.20) And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. (v.24) But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Did-y-mus, was not with them when Jesus came. (v.25) The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he saith unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and trust my hand into his side, I will not believe." Now that's a reasonable statement Thomas made, saying he'll believe it when he sees it. (v.26) "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, peace be unto you. (v.27) Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." Then Thomas made one of the most over looked statements in the bible, when he said unto Jesus (v.28) "MY LORD AND MY GOD".

Jesus after his resurrection from the dead was returning to his former glory, God. (John 17:5) "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." Yes, with thee before the world was. That's why after Jesus was raised from the dead he made this statement. (Mat. 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." It's hard for some people to understand that Jesus came through the Virgin Mary in the flesh, but he has always existed as a spirit being.

Let's move on to (Ex. 3:13-14) And Moses said unto God Behold when I come unto the children of Israel and shall say unto them. The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you: and they shall say unto me, what is his

name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel I am hath sent me unto you. Now Moses asked a direct question and God gave him a direct answer that's very clear.

Let's take a look at; (John 8:56-59) When Jesus was speaking to some of the Jews saying (v.56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him (Jesus) thou are not yet fifty years old and hast thou seen Abraham. Now listen closely how Jesus answered. Jesus said unto them verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was I am. I am, not I will be, or I was, but I am. That's forever present, the one who became known as Jesus was always around, he is the member of the Godhead that became known as the Son. In the beginning there was no Father or Son just God, or Godhead or God family, God is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim, a uniplural word. Like the word man, it covers the species male and female. (Gen. 1:27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE AND FEMALE CREATED HE THEM.

Ain't no doubt about it! Jesus is God.

Col 1 By Him all things were created!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Amen! No doubt About It:

Complete Case For Jesus Christ Is Almighty God!!

Amen.

 

[bro.tan]

In (Rev. 12:7-9) (v.7) and there was war in heaven: Mi-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (v.8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (v.9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out unto the earth and his angels were cast out with him. Now even though we are reading this out of Revelation this war in heaven took place before man was created.

Let's look at; (Luke 10:18-19) (v.18) and the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. (v.19) And he said unto them, I beheld SATAN AS LIGHTING FALL FROM HEAVEN. (The word beheld means; from the Strong Concordance; to be a spectator of, behold, consider, look on. That's correct; Jesus was right there and probably was the one that told Michael, to throw Satan out. Now we have dealt with old book and new book just like the bible says. (Isaiah 8:20) To the law (old book) and to the testimony: (new book) if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Matthew 13:51-52) Jesus saith unto them, have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, yea Lord. (v.52) Then said he unto them, therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things NEW AND OLD.

But let's move on, there is one group GROOMED to teach that Jesus is not God. The Jehovah's Witnesses, they claim that Jesus is the Son of God but not God. They also claim that Jesus and Michael the arch- angel are one in the same.

Let's take a quick look. The first place I take them is (Heb. 1-14) (v.1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, (v.2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Yes it was the Son who made the worlds. (v.3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Now you tell me where in the bible anywhere did it say that any angel purged our sins, or any angel set on the right hand of the father (the Majesty on high). It's not written. (v.4) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they, It didn't say, so much better than the OTHER angels, but the angels, period! (v.5) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE? And again, I WILL BE TO HIM A FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON. It is true that angels are sometimes called the sons of God. But speaking about the angels as sons, the bible never said, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. "This day" indicates a time when Jesus became the Son of God and that was at his resurrection from the dead, so we know we are not talking about angels here. (v.6) And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM. It didn't say let all the OTHER angels of God worship him, but let ALL the angels of God worship him.

(v.8) But unto the Son he saith, (now this is the father talking about the son) THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: A SCEPTRE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THE SCEPTRE OF THY KINGDOM, Now the father called the Son (Jesus) God who are we to argue. (v.13) But to which of the angels said he at any time, SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY footstool. Now here’s the kicker, he NEVER at ANY time or ANY place in the bible told ANY angel sit thou at my right hand. But it was told to Jesus throughout the bible. So Jesus cannot be Michael the Arch- Angel the bible just proved that. I could have went to several other places, but I think the bible proved its point.

The Jehovah's Witnesses love to tell you that when you see the word God in the Old or New Testament it is referring to the father Jehovah. Jehovah is not the father's name. So I take them to; (Rev 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. I ask them who is this speaking here? They quickly say Jehovah God, and I agree. (Rev.21:5-7) (v.5) And he that sat upon the throne said behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (v.6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. I want to know who is speaking here? They are going to say this is also Jehovah God, and I totally agree.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

...Jehovah is not the father's name...

? I think you meant "Jehovah Is The Father's Name"?:

"Then The LORD [ Jehovah, The SON, Who Appeared To Abram on earth ] rained upon Sodom and upon ​

Gomorrah brimstone and fire From The LORD [ Jehovah, The Father ] out of heaven;" (Genesis 19:24 AV)​

​

Amen.

 

[bro.tan]

? I think you meant "Jehovah Is The Father's Name"?:

"Then The LORD [ Jehovah, The SON, Who Appeared To Abram on earth ] rained upon Sodom and upon ​

Gomorrah brimstone and fire From The LORD [ Jehovah, The Father ] out of heaven;" (Genesis 19:24 AV)​

​

Amen.

Jesus told you with his own words, (v.39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. The scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi. Jesus told you with his own mouth. (v.43) I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

If Jesus came in his Father's name, then what was Jesus' name before he came in the flesh? It was GOD ALMIGHTY! (Ex. 6:2-3) (v.2) And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: (v.3) And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JE-HO'-VAH was I not known to them.

 

[bro.tan]

In (Isaiah 50:1-7) (v.1) Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away. (Now this is the Lord of the Old Testament speaking here.) "THUS SAITH THE LORD"! (v.2) Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? When I called was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? Or have I no power to deliver? (Now this Lord of the Old- Testament is about to introduce himself, PAY ATTENTION.) At my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst.


Who dried up the sea?


Lets go to (Exodus 14:21-22) The Lord God did. Who make the rivers a wilderness? (Joshua 3:15-17) The lord God did. (Isaiah 50:3) I cloth the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering. Who made darkness? The Lord God did. (v.4) The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. Why is this Lord that has the power to dry up seas and rivers calling some one else God? (v.5)) The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. That’s right, this Lord was not rebellious, he was fulfilling what was prophesied of him. (v.6) I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair; I hide not my face from shame and spitting.

What is going on here with the shame and spitting?

(Matthew 26:67) Then they spit in his face and buffeted him: and others smote him with the palms of their hands. Come on people, we know that this happened just before the death of Jesus. So the one that dried up the sea and the river and made darkness, is the same one that died for our sins on the cross. This Lord of the Old -Testament is Jesus, and Jesus is God.

So whether you believe Jesus is God or not, you better believe this. (Acts 4:10-13) (v.10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (v.11) This is THE STONE WHICH WAS SET AT NOUGHT OF YOU BUILDERS, WHICH IS BECOME THE HEAD OF THE CORNER. (v.12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Jack]

? I think you meant "Jehovah Is The Father's Name"?:

"Then The LORD [ Jehovah, The SON, Who Appeared To Abram on earth ] rained upon Sodom and upon ​

Gomorrah brimstone and fire From The LORD [ Jehovah, The Father ] out of heaven;" (Genesis 19:24 AV)​

​

Amen.

Please tell us you're not JW.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Please tell us you're not JW.

Ok, I am NOT jw:

The LORD Jesus Christ IS The Almighty God!​

Correct?

Amen.

 

[Jack]

Ok, I am NOT jw:

Thank God!

The LORD Jesus Christ IS The Almighty God!

Correct?

Amen.

Absolutely correct!!! PTL

 

[bro.tan]

The book say in 1John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethen. When did God lay down his life for us?

Revelation 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Now who sent this angel, the Lord God of the holy prophets, or Jesus, the answer is “Yes” to both. Jesus is the Lord God of the holy prophets. And how can Jesus be the root and the offspring of David if his existence started with Mary? So in closing remember, that the one who became known as the Son, (Jesus) came through the Virgin Mary in the flesh. But he has always existed as a spirit being from the beginning. One of the two members of the eternal Godhead.

Philippians 2:5-12 (v.5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (v.6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (v.7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (v.8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (v.9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name, which is above every name: Now "every" is an absolute, so the name of Jesus is even above the name of Jehovah, yes because Jehovah is not the Father's name. (v.10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth. (v.11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is lord, to the glory of God the Father. (v.12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Gottservant]

Just in response to the OP: Jesus is God, yes, but specifically He is God "crucified". God is not "God crucified".

So in context with the idea that Jesus was "God before the New Testament" - which is insightful - by greater inspiration is that "Jesus was [that is, continued to be] God crucified, before the New Testament".

This is what is meant by the phrase Jesus is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

 

[MatthewG]

I think its backwards but whatever. All the best!

The Lamb being slain before the foundation of the world - in the mind and heart of God as an already thought idea sounds more plausible.

To me Jesus wasn't Jesus until the LOGOs was made flesh.

Not a salvation issue.

 

[Jack]

To me Jesus wasn't Jesus until the LOGOs was made flesh.

Where did He come from???

Not a salvation issue.

It is indeed. All who deny Jesus is God are heading for Hell Fire.

 

[MatthewG]

Where did He come from???

It is indeed. All who deny Jesus is God are heading for Hell Fire.

Honestly, I think accepting the resurrection isn’t just a theological detail—it’s central to salvation. But I’ll leave that to God’s judgment. I’ve met plenty of people who wrestle with that part, unsure if they can fully embrace it. Still, I can’t separate Jesus from the resurrection. As Paul said, “If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins” (1 Corinthians 15:17). Without the resurrection, there’s no victory, no transformation, no newness of life. “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead… we too may live a new life” (Romans 6:4). That’s not just my opinion—it’s the heartbeat of the gospel.

 

[Jack]

I think just accepting the resurrection might be more a salvation issue... but I digress... There many people who tell me they not so sure about that part... But I'll let God judge.

Those who deny Jesus is God have a different savior than Christians! That is clearly a salvation issue.

 

[MatthewG]

Those who deny Jesus is God have a different savior that Christian! That is salvation.

Well Jack, sure sucks for people cant read then huh. Lol... not gonna respond to you after this message, as you clearly just wanna start something. Im going to bed.