The Great Tribulation Began in 70AD and Continues to This Very Day

[Ronald David Bruno]

Tribulation has been happening all along. And as a believer in the Harpazo, I would also include a Rapture event coming before the sun is darkened, etc.

The great irony in all of this is that both sides are technically correct. The Harpazo does come after the Great Tribulation *AND YET* the next event that is coming is the Harpazo itself because we are already in the Great Tribulation. Everyone wins... almost.

There has been Tribulation since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden. But let's be reasonable, there are degrees of Tribulation. You cannot lump it all together.
Let's say your home was broken into by terroists, the thieves rape your wife and daughters and kill them, you fight back as much as you can and loose and they chop your head off. That is as extreme as one can be. But that is one family, not the entire world. That cannot be compared to the Flood when everyone ( tens of millions) except 8 people died. Perspective: "As in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Coming of the Son of Man".
Context is important and in Matthew 24 the disciples asked Him a 3-part loaded question. Unbeknownst to them, His answer would contain different time periods. The first part of the question had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but most of the other information dealt with His Second Coming, 2,000 years later, including the end of the age. He goes back and forth with His answer - which is what is confusing but this was the style of how Jews communicated. As in Genesis 1, an outline is given, then in chapter 2, details are filled in. So Jesus speaks of wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, famines, pestilence, etc. Thise details do not describe events of 70AD, when the Roman Empire was dominant, this had to do with a much later time, the times we are now in with many nations at eachother's throats. Then vs. 14 is the key. The gospel will be preached throughout the world to every nation. That didn't happen in the first century ( or any other century), it just got started back then. That hasn't become a reality until our current generation, just recenlty. So then in vs. 15, He goes back to 70AD event and addresses people in Judah.
Do a study on the word abomination. God detests certain activities and calls them abominations. Well, destroying the Holy City of His chosen people was an abomination and desolation followed. I guess you can symbolically refer to Jesus death as an abomination and spiritual desolation of the Jews that followed. Then Jesus returns to modern times and addresses a Great Tribulation.
Now listen, look at the events in the first 4 Seals in Revelation, the four horsemen. What is the result? Death to 25 % of the population of the planet. Does that sound like your average historical times of Tribulation? 2 billion within only a portion of the GT?
Even combining the deaths from WW1, WW2 and every war in the last 200 years you'd only come up with 2-3% death of the population. By the time The Great Tribulation is over ( a 3 1/2 year period) likely over 5 billion will die.
Amils are caught in this symbolic mumbo jumbo. I read a book by someone who was called the Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanegraph. I used to listen to him on the radio. He was good with most commentary - until he got to Eschatology. That book on Revelation was filled with symbolic crap. He was so far away from the literal interpretation. Did you listen to him too?

 

[Davy]

Context is important and in Matthew 24 the disciples asked Him a 3-part loaded question. Unbeknownst to them, His answer would contain different time periods. The first part of the question had to do with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, but most of the other information dealt with His Second Coming, 2,000 years later, including the end of the age. He goes back and forth with His answer - which is what is confusing but this was the style of how Jews communicated. As in Genesis 1, an outline is given, then in chapter 2, details are filled in. So Jesus speaks of wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, famines, pestilence, etc. Thise details do not describe events of 70AD, when the Roman Empire was dominant, this had to do with a much later time, the times we are now in with many nations at eachother's throats. Then vs. 14 is the key. The gospel will be preached throughout the world to every nation. That didn't happen in the first century ( or any other century), it just got started back then. That hasn't become a reality until our current generation, just recenlty. So then in vs. 15, He goes back to 70AD event and addresses people in Judah.

Close, but you still appear to be missing some points with what Lord Jesus was showing in His Olivet discourse.

The city of Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times, destroyed at least twice, and per Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Revelation, will be partially destroyed again in final at His future 2nd coming.

It is very easy for many to claim that what Lord Jesus said about not one stone atop another was interpreted by His disciples to be about the coming 70 A.D. destruction by the Romans. But is that what Lord Jesus really meant, the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem only? I don't think so, and I think His disciples also understood that, otherwise they would not have asked Him about the sign of His coming and of the end of the world.

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

We should ask ourselves, just how... did His disciples come up with that idea about His future coming and the end of the world BASED on Jesus saying there would not be one stone atop another there at the Temple Mount?

What other... subject is in that prophetic statement by Lord Jesus which His disciples could pick up on? I see no other subject in His statement than the topic about the destruction of the stones of the buildings of the Temple Mount complex. That is what His disciples were pointing to when He came out of the temple and declared that not one stone atop another prophecy.

There has to be another reason why Lord Jesus' disciples linked the sign of His future coming and the end of the world to that not one stop atop another event.

It is because in God's Word there is such a thing as 'dual fulfillment' prophecies. Didn't Solomon say there is no new thing under the sun, what has been shall be again? Even the Isaiah 21 phrase, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" is repeated in Revelation four times about the end of this world. And the Babylon harlot mystery in Revelation itself is a pointer back to history about the Baal idol worship that originally began in ancient Babylon.

Another pointer by Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse about this, is what He said in the parable of the fig tree. He said the generation that 'sees' all these things, meaning ALL those SIGNS there He had given, will not die out until ALL these things come to pass, the very last SIGN being that of His future return and gathering of His faithful Church. Would that mean that not one stone atop another prophecy will be included in "all these things" for the END of this world too? I believe so.

Thus just as Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. served as a blueprint example for the Daniel 11 "vile person" setting up an abomination idol in the temple at Jerusalem, so also the dual fulfillment of that will involve Christ's prophecy of the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist for the end of this world.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Close, but you still appear to be missing some points with what Lord Jesus was showing in His Olivet discourse.

The city of Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times, destroyed at least twice, and per Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Revelation, will be partially destroyed again in final at His future 2nd coming.

It is very easy for many to claim that what Lord Jesus said about not one stone atop another was interpreted by His disciples to be about the coming 70 A.D. destruction by the Romans. But is that what Lord Jesus really meant, the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem only? I don't think so, and I think His disciples also understood that, otherwise they would not have asked Him about the sign of His coming and of the end of the world.

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

We should ask ourselves, just how... did His disciples come up with that idea about His future coming and the end of the world BASED on Jesus saying there would not be one stone atop another there at the Temple Mount?

What other... subject is in that prophetic statement by Lord Jesus which His disciples could pick up on? I see no other subject in His statement than the topic about the destruction of the stones of the buildings of the Temple Mount complex. That is what His disciples were pointing to when He came out of the temple and declared that not one stone atop another prophecy.

There has to be another reason why Lord Jesus' disciples linked the sign of His future coming and the end of the world to that not one stop atop another event.

It is because in God's Word there is such a thing as 'dual fulfillment' prophecies. Didn't Solomon say there is no new thing under the sun, what has been shall be again? Even the Isaiah 21 phrase, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" is repeated in Revelation four times about the end of this world. And the Babylon harlot mystery in Revelation itself is a pointer back to history about the Baal idol worship that originally began in ancient Babylon.

Another pointer by Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse about this, is what He said in the parable of the fig tree. He said the generation that 'sees' all these things, meaning ALL those SIGNS there He had given, will not die out until ALL these things come to pass, the very last SIGN being that of His future return and gathering of His faithful Church. Would that mean that not one stone atop another prophecy will be included in "all these things" for the END of this world too? I believe so.

Thus just as Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. served as a blueprint example for the Daniel 11 "vile person" setting up an abomination idol in the temple at Jerusalem, so also the dual fulfillment of that will involve Christ's prophecy of the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist for the end of this world.

Yes, I am familiar with types and shadows, scripture have multiple applications in different times. What was applicable to the chosen nation, who were the text case for the world, then needed to be applied to the gentiles as well.
As far as the disciples questions, the Holy Spirit promoted them to ask. They were confused about a lot of things, Him having to die for one. They were distraught, in hiding, afraid ... until they saw Him. And then all of His teachings and their missions didn't become clear until Pentecost.

 

[JLB]

Contrary to popular belief, the Great Tribulation is not something that will happen in the future. It began in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and continues to this very day.

The great tribulation is three and a half years.

When we see the terms, 1260 days, a time, times and a half of time, or 42 months, these all are designating the great tribulation.


Understanding these words in Matthew 24 is important to understanding this time period.


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),… For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15,21


Daniel 9:24-27 is the key to understanding this important time frame of three and a half years.

 

[HealthyShape]

Matt 24:3
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

We should ask ourselves, just how... did His disciples come up with that idea about His future coming and the end of the world BASED on Jesus saying there would not be one stone atop another there at the Temple Mount?

The word should be translated as "age". Which is what most Bible translations choose to do:

New International Version
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

English Standard Version
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

New American Standard Bible
And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Berean Literal Bible
And as He was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him in private, saying, "Tell us, when these things will be? And what is the sign of Your coming, and the consummation of the age?"

165 aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, "age-long") – properly, an age (era, "time-span"), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).

 

[covenantee]

The great tribulation is three and a half years.

When we see the terms, 1260 days, a time, times and a half of time, or 42 months, these all are designating the great tribulation.


Understanding these words in Matthew 24 is important to understanding this time period.


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),… For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15,21


Daniel 9:24-27 is the key to understanding this important time frame of three and a half years.

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

Christ confirmed His Covenant with many for the 70th week, and 3 1/2 years into that week He caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease by His perfect and complete atoning redemptive work at Calvary.

It was indeed an important time frame.

 

[Davy]

As far as the disciples questions, the Holy Spirit promoted them to ask. They were confused about a lot of things, Him having to die for one. They were distraught, in hiding, afraid ... until they saw Him. And then all of His teachings and their missions didn't become clear until Pentecost.

But all that is not... contained in His disciple's question there in Matthew 24:1-3.

And in Matthew 17:22-23 Jesus revealed to His disciples that He would be delivered up to be crucified, and would raise again the third day. So they did already hear of that, though they may not have well understood until it happened.

I'm just saying, we are not to allow the 'humanism' that is often preached about Jesus and His disciples at the pulpit to get in the way of understanding just what the questions Christ's disciples asked Him meant after Jesus had declared that not one stone atop another prophecy.

 

[Jay Ross]

^^^^The Thread's title: - The Great Tribulation began in 70 AD and continues to this very day.

Really,

If my memory is still functioning correctly, I believe that we are presently in the Time of Jacob's troubles which will end around the year 2044 AD. The timeframe for the Great Tribulation will only happen after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked in around 1,020 years from now.

 

[JLB]

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

Christ confirmed His Covenant with many for the 70th week, and 3 1/2 years into that week He caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease by His perfect and complete atoning redemptive work at Calvary.

It was indeed an important time frame.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26

Here in verse 26 we see two distinct events that occured AFTER the 69 weeks.

Messiah cut off; 33 AD
The city and sanctuary destroyed; 70 AD

We have come to the year 70AD in the Prophetic timeline and yet the 70th week has not year begun.

The temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

• The 70th week begins sometime after the year 70 AD.

The 70th week is associated with the language of a temple; sacrifice and offering.

All these things are what we need to UNDERSTAND as Jesus said in Matthew 24:14


Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:27

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But all that is not... contained in His disciple's question there in Matthew 24:1-3.

And in Matthew 17:22-23 Jesus revealed to His disciples that He would be delivered up to be crucified, and would raise again the third day. So they did already hear of that, though they may not have well understood until it happened.

I'm just saying, we are not to allow the 'humanism' that is often preached about Jesus and His disciples at the pulpit to get in the way of understanding just what the questions Christ's disciples asked Him meant after Jesus had declared that not one stone atop another prophecy.

Humanism? That is a philosophy that puts all the events in history either in the hands of mankind or Mother Nature. Humanism is void of God.
For you to imply that about anything I said is absurd. GOD IS SOVEREIGN. HIS PLAN IS PERFECT AND MAN CANNOT ALTER IT.
The questions and btw everything spoken in the Bible was ordained by God for a purpose. So they asked so that we could learn, not so much for their lives, all of them would be dead by 70AD - except for John who wrote Revelation about 95 AD.

 

[covenantee]

We have come to the year 70AD in the Prophetic timeline and yet the 70th week has not year begun.

Daniel declared, "Seventy weeks are determined".

That includes all seventy weeks.

It includes the seventieth week.

But you claim that your seventieth week "has not yet begun".

Therefore, your seventieth week is decapitated, orphaned, and completely undetermined.

It is a complete contradiction of Daniel's declaration.

Whom to believe?

1. You
2. Daniel

The answer is self-evident.

 

[Davy]

Humanism? That is a philosophy that puts all the events in history either in the hands of mankind or Mother Nature. Humanism is void of God.
For you to imply that about anything I said is absurd. GOD IS SOVEREIGN. HIS PLAN IS PERFECT AND MAN CANNOT ALTER IT.
The questions and btw everything spoken in the Bible was ordained by God for a purpose. So they asked so that we could learn, not so much for their lives, all of them would be dead by 70AD - except for John who wrote Revelation about 95 AD.

Well, you were the one who went off on an irrelevant tangent outside the Matthew 24:1-3 subject, and didn't stay focused.


You Said:
"Yes, I am familiar with types and shadows, scripture have multiple applications in different times. What was applicable to the chosen nation, who were the text case for the world, then needed to be applied to the gentiles as well.
As far as the disciples questions, the Holy Spirit promoted them to ask. They were confused about a lot of things, Him having to die for one. They were distraught, in hiding, afraid ... until they saw Him. And then all of His teachings and their missions didn't become clear until Pentecost."

The Matthew 24:1-3 subject isn't about the Gentiles; it is specifically about Jerusalem, the temple mount complex, and the end of this world with Jesus' future 2nd coming.

The Matthew 24:1-3 subject isn't about the Apostle's not understanding about Christ's death and resurrection either. It is specifically about Jerusalem, the temple mount complex,. and the end of this world with Jesus' future 2nd coming.

There is NO Biblical proof that Christ's Apostles didn't 'then'... understand Jesus' answer to their question of Matthew 24:3 with the SIGNS He gave them as a response there, which are the signs of the end they asked Him about, to include the sign of His future 2nd coming after the great tribulation. What they asked Him in Acts 1 was if then He was going to restore the kingdom of Israel. How did they know about that? From the Old Testament prophets mainly, but also as written in Mark 4:34 that in private Lord Jesus expounded all things to His disciples.

Thus man's 'humanist' philosophy is the false preaching that Christ's disciples were confused about why He had come, and what it was that He was to do. Lot of that comes from men's doctrines of Hyper-Dispensationalism that tries to dumb-down the disciples of Christ so they can pump up the ministry of Apostle Paul more instead, even with a false dual-Gospel theory.

So maybe you don't have anyone that cares enough to point these things out to you. If it makes you angry then maybe you should look into what your Bible actually says more, and being careful when listening to men's doctrines.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, you were the one who went off on an irrelevant tangent outside the Matthew 24:1-3 subject, and didn't stay focused.


You Said:
"Yes, I am familiar with types and shadows, scripture have multiple applications in different times. What was applicable to the chosen nation, who were the text case for the world, then needed to be applied to the gentiles as well.
As far as the disciples questions, the Holy Spirit promoted them to ask. They were confused about a lot of things, Him having to die for one. They were distraught, in hiding, afraid ... until they saw Him. And then all of His teachings and their missions didn't become clear until Pentecost."

The Matthew 24:1-3 subject isn't about the Gentiles; it is specifically about Jerusalem, the temple mount complex, and the end of this world with Jesus' future 2nd coming.

The Matthew 24:1-3 subject isn't about the Apostle's not understanding about Christ's death and resurrection either. It is specifically about Jerusalem, the temple mount complex,. and the end of this world with Jesus' future 2nd coming.

There is NO Biblical proof that Christ's Apostles didn't 'then'... understand Jesus' answer to their question of Matthew 24:3 with the SIGNS He gave them as a response there, which are the signs of the end they asked Him about, to include the sign of His future 2nd coming after the great tribulation. What they asked Him in Acts 1 was if then He was going to restore the kingdom of Israel. How did they know about that? From the Old Testament prophets mainly, but also as written in Mark 4:34 that in private Lord Jesus expounded all things to His disciples.

Thus man's 'humanist' philosophy is the false preaching that Christ's disciples were confused about why He had come, and what it was that He was to do. Lot of that comes from men's doctrines of Hyper-Dispensationalism that tries to dumb-down the disciples of Christ so they can pump up the ministry of Apostle Paul more instead, even with a false dual-Gospel theory.

So maybe you don't have anyone that cares enough to point these things out to you. If it makes you angry then maybe you should look into what your Bible actually says more, and being careful when listening to men's doctrines.

Sorry, dont try to mesh Dispensationalism with humanism - two different realities all together.
You don't see the obvious steps that God took in history? Eras (dispensations) were stages where God ordained His purposes within His overall plan
1. Creation to the Fall (Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden).
2. Man's Conscious awareness of Good and Evil, sin through to Noah's Flood.
3. From Noah to Abraham ( Babylon and God confusing them by creating hundreds of languages and scattering throughout the world.
4. From Abraham, whom God promised to make a great nation to the time of Moses.
5. The Law given to His chosen Nation
6. Jesus' ministry, His death and ressurection ushered in a new era to all, th Church Age for the last 2000 years to the Second Coming of Jesus
7. Millennial Kingdom
8. NEW Eternal Jerusalem

GOD'S PLAN HAD DISTINCT ERAS WHICH WERE STAGES WITHIN HIS PLAN.
You can deny this, I don't care, I see it that way.

 

[CTK]

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26

Here in verse 26 we see two distinct events that occured AFTER the 69 weeks.

Messiah cut off; 33 AD
The city and sanctuary destroyed; 70 AD

We have come to the year 70AD in the Prophetic timeline and yet the 70th week has not year begun.

The temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

• The 70th week begins sometime after the year 70 AD.

The 70th week is associated with the language of a temple; sacrifice and offering.

All these things are what we need to UNDERSTAND as Jesus said in Matthew 24:14


Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.” Daniel 9:27

Daniel 9:26

26And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood. And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

And after the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself

With verse 26, Gabriel shifts the prophetic focus from restoration to consequence—from the Messiah's arrival to the cost of His rejection. This verse marks a turning point in the seventy-weeks prophecy (Daniel 9:24–27), transitioning from the hopeful arrival of the Anointed One to the somber reality of what would follow.

Gabriel had already made it clear: the Messiah, the Prince, would appear after the sixty-nine weeks—that is, after the completion of 7 weeks and 62 weeks (a total of 483 prophetic years). This places the Messiah’s arrival at the very beginning of the final 70th week (as stated in verse 25).

Now, verse 26 declares what will happen after this arrival: “Messiah shall be cut off.” The Hebrew word karat (כָּרַת) conveys a violent and deliberate severing, often used in Scripture to describe a covenantal death—a sacrificial offering or the result of a broken covenant. But Gabriel immediately qualifies this statement: “but not for Himself.” The Messiah’s death would not be for His own sins or wrongdoing, but on behalf of others. It is a direct reference to the Messiah’s substitutionary sacrifice. This language echoes the suffering servant prophecy of Isaiah 53:

“He was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.” (Isaiah 53:8)​

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood… it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.” (Leviticus 17:11)​

These verses find their fulfillment in Jesus Christ, who was crucified not for His own sake, but for the redemption of humanity. He became the final sacrifice—the Lamb of God—whose blood would make atonement once for all (Hebrews 10:10–14).

It is critical to note that Gabriel’s timeline remains unbroken. There is no suggestion of a pause or future gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. The Messiah’s death occurs within the final seven-year period, just as His arrival marks the beginning of that last week. His ministry, His confirmation of the covenant, and His sacrificial death all unfold during this final, climactic segment of the prophecy.

This continuity exposes the error of the futurist interpretation, which artificially inserts a 2,000-year gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. But Daniel’s prophecy makes no such allowance. There is no textual justification for dividing the seventieth week from the sixty-ninth. The Messiah arrives on time, and He is “cut off” on time. His death is the centerpiece of redemptive history and the very heart of Gabriel’s message.

Verse 26 is more than a prediction of Jesus’ crucifixion—it is a bridge. It connects the restorative mission of the Messiah to the devastating consequences of His rejection. Through His death, Jesus replaces the Levitical system with a better covenant. But for those who reject Him, the result is judgment:

The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD.​

The spiritual desolation of those who turned away from their Redeemer.​

The continuation of the final week, during which Jesus confirms the covenant and brings the old system to an end.​

In short, verse 26 affirms that the seventy weeks are all about the Messiah—not a future mythical political tyrant, but the suffering Savior who fulfilled God’s redemptive plan. His mission, His sacrifice, and the aftermath of His rejection all occur within the prophetic framework Gabriel provides. As we move deeper into the final parts of this prophecy, we must keep this focus clear: The seventy weeks are about Christ—His arrival, His atonement, and His victory.

 

[Davy]

Sorry, dont try to mesh Dispensationalism with humanism - two different realities all together.

And one of your errors is not being able recognize that I follow neither one of those categories of men's doctrines. But that's alright, keep thinking that one who stays strictly with the written Bible Scripture cannot be real, and must be following something else.

You don't see the obvious steps that God took in history? Eras (dispensations) were stages where God ordained His purposes within His overall plan
1. Creation to the Fall (Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden).
2. Man's Conscious awareness of Good and Evil, sin through to Noah's Flood.
3. From Noah to Abraham ( Babylon and God confusing them by creating hundreds of languages and scattering throughout the world.
4. From Abraham, whom God promised to make a great nation to the time of Moses.
5. The Law given to His chosen Nation
6. Jesus' ministry, His death and ressurection ushered in a new era to all, th Church Age for the last 2000 years to the Second Coming of Jesus
7. Millennial Kingdom
8. NEW Eternal Jerusalem

GOD'S PLAN HAD DISTINCT ERAS WHICH WERE STAGES WITHIN HIS PLAN.
You can deny this, I don't care, I see it that way.

Now that above is the idea of dispensationalism, but NOT Darby's Dispensationalism which he devised in order to try and support the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory. There is NO Bible Scripture written that separates Christ's Church from His future Kingdom on earth at future Jerusalem in the holy land. Yet that is what Darby's false Dispensationalist theory is about, that the Church reigns from Heaven while the Jews of the nation of Israel are restored on earth like the days of old.

That false Dispensationalist theory by Darby is also why later Dispensationalists came up with Hyper-Dispensationalism, which wrongly preaches there are TWO Gospels of Jesus Christ, one for the Jews, and one for the Gentiles. That ideas is NOWHERE written in God's Word, and certainly not by Apostle Paul. Apostle Paul instead taught that he was given an 'administration' of the One Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Peter was given another 'administration' of the same Gospel. Thusly, One Gospel, One Christ, but different stewardships or administrations of that One Gospel.

 

[LoveYeshua]

^^^^The Thread's title: - The Great Tribulation began in 70 AD and continues to this very day.

Really,

If my memory is still functioning correctly, I believe that we are presently in the Time of Jacob's troubles which will end around the year 2044 AD. The timeframe for the Great Tribulation will only happen after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked in around 1,020 years from now.

I confirm, we are in the time of Jacob's trouble, I have had several daily visions of this, always the same one repeating for over a week. as for the year or date I have no idea but you are probably right., if we look at worldwide events events happening at this time.

Blessings.

 

[David in NJ]

Contrary to popular belief, the Great Tribulation is not something that will happen in the future. It began in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and continues to this very day.

Here is the famous verse:



Since context is important for determining the precise timing, it is always a good idea to review the surrounding verses:



Matthew 24:15 is where most stumble. No effort is made to properly unpack the rich amount of information contained within the verse. Let us break it down.

See
The first mistake most folks make is interpreting the word 'see' as 'seeing physically with the eyes'. We now go to the original Greek:

Strong's Greek 3708: horaó
Properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

Strong's Greek: 3708. ὁράω (horaó) -- To see, perceive, attend to

As we can 'see', there is more than one meaning. So how do we know which meaning is intended? Thankfully, the Holy Spirit gave us the answer right in the verse itself.

let him understand
The instructions are clear. We are to interpret the word 'see' as well as the entire verse itself, through the lens of understanding. In other words, with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

So, what is it that the reader is to understand?

abomination of desolation
The Abomination of Desolation was the Crucifixion that ultimately led to the desolation, i.e., the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. This was prophesied many times in the Old Testament, especially in the Book of Daniel. Therefore, the reader of Daniel was to understand what the Abomination of Desolation was and when it was to occur.

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All of the dates were precisely laid out ahead of time. Anyone living in Daniel's time, that had a good grasp of their ancient manuscripts, could have easily deciphered it.

Simply put, when the reader 'saw' as in spiritually understood the meaning of the Abomination of Desolation, they would know that when the Crucifixion occurred, they would have roughly forty-five years to move away from Jerusalem before her desolation. The following verses make it absolutely clear that the desolation was to occur in Judea:



God was kind enough to give the residents plenty of time to start their lives over.

And here we are, thousands of years later after the Great Tribulation began. The only thing left for the world to experience is the Man of Sin to be revealed at end of the world:



Again, the phrase 'those days' is referring to the period of time from 70AD to a yet future end point. There is no coming Great Tribulation. We are in it! Many verses attest to this:



Tribulation has been happening all along. And as a believer in the Harpazo, I would also include a Rapture event coming before the sun is darkened, etc.

The great irony in all of this is that both sides are technically correct. The Harpazo does come after the Great Tribulation *AND YET* the next event that is coming is the Harpazo itself because we are already in the Great Tribulation. Everyone wins... almost.

The Tribulation began in Genesis chapter 3

It grew into the GREAT Tribulation during Enoch/Noah time on earth = once Noah was in the Ark(Christ) the Wrath of God came down.

Christ is the 70th Week = HE fulfilled it.

Tribulation has been on the earth since Genesis and AFTER Noah & Family repopulated the earth.
The Tribulation has now GROWN exponentially since then = just as the LORD prophesied.

The LAST piece of Tribulation is the AC and the Mark of the Beast = this signifies the GREAT Tribulation = same as in Noah's Day

This is taking place Today, as the Technology and World Stage is being established as we speak and when all is ready and according to the Holy Scriptures of Truth, the AC will be revealed in his time = 2 Thess chapter 2

All who speak pre-trib rapture have given themselves over to believing a LIE just as Adam & Eve did in the Garden.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes tribulation and fiery trials have afflicted the people of God from the very beginning after the fall.
It was man's fault, none to blame but themselves.

God did allow Satan to enter the garden, was he fallen then?
So when do you think Satan fell? Here in the garden when he tempts Eve, or before.
When did God curse Satan, the Serpent?

Acts 14:21-23
New King James Version
Strengthening the Converts
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” 23 So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 14:21-23 - New King James Version

Strengthening the Converts - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[rwb]

Yes tribulation and fiery trials have afflicted the people of God from the very beginning after the fall.
It was man's fault, none to blame but themselves.

God did allow Satan to enter the garden, was he fallen then?
So when do you think Satan fell? Here in the garden when he tempts Eve, or before.
When did God curse Satan, the Serpent?

Acts 14:21-23
New King James Version
Strengthening the Converts
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” 23 So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 14:21-23 - New King James Version

Strengthening the Converts - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the...

www.biblegateway.com

What was/is Satan?
Is the serpent in the garden symbolic for Satan a spirit being?

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

God's Word only tells us the serpent, symbolic of Satan, was more subtle (cunning & crafty in a bad way) than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. Does this verse say the serpent too was created along with the beast? Or does it seem to indicate the serpent, symbolizing Satan was simply there?

The serpent was cursed by God at the same time God sent A&E from the garden, telling them in essence that after much suffering, sorrow, pain and hard labor they would die. Just as God had promised that in the day (age/time) they ate of the forbidden tree they would die.

Genesis 3:14-15 (KJV) And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 3:19 (KJV) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 3:22-24 (KJV) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

The Bible tells us that everything in heaven and earth were created by God, He is the Creator of ALL things. We know from the Bible when God created every living thing upon the earth, as well as when He created visible things in the sky and the sea. But I have yet to discover any verse or passage that tells us when God created spirit beings. They seem only to exist. We know from what is written that they exist. And that like all things created by God, the spirit beings also are used by Him to bring about whatever He purposes.

What was the purpose for God allowing the serpent, symbolic of Satan to be in the garden of Eden to tempt A&E?

 

[Scott Downey]

The fall in Eden was the plan of God is all I can think, as God is the supreme intelligence and has full knowledge of all things past, present future. Nothing escapes God, it says no one has resisted His will.

Things happen for the glory of God and even God experiences sorrow, but God still does what He does to fulfil His words.
The fall brought pain, trials, tribulation, but it also brought glory to God, for it is the ministry of mercy which is exceedingly glorious.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 3 - New King James Version

Christ’s Epistle - Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not...

www.biblegateway.com

The Spirit, Not the Letter​

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Glory of the New Covenant​

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as [b]by the Spirit of the Lord.