How can you find the truth when biblically supported views contradict?

[Moontan13]

Easy .
GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF . stop trusting in emotional agenda led men .
Its not hard steven . Just open and read . not difficult .
ITS MEN that messed it all up . TIME to open BIBLE and to read BIBLE and LOVE them lovely words
and learn and grow . RATHER THAN DOING what you and others always do
as in trying to always plant doubt and act like people cant learn the scrips .
READ THEM FOR YOU .

It's men that gathered up all the writings and assembled them into the Holy Bible(s) we have now. Look into the history of the Bible, it's very interesting.

 

[rwb]

There's a big contradiction when one guy says a girl is dead and another guy says she's alive. Taking any other position is being in denial.

When you say the Bible is something that people can see that it's not, the Christian message loses all credibility.

The Bible loses credibility because people who don't know any better try to convince us the Bible is not trustworthy because God contradicts Himself! This is absolute folly! THRE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS WITH GOD!

 

[amigo de christo]

It's men that gathered up all the writings and assembled them into the Holy Bible(s) we have now. Look into the history of the Bible, it's very interesting.

Oh i know my friend . God used men like peter and some others
to keep the writings . Just like he often used jewish scribes
to recopy from time to time the original writings .
But it dont mean Man is to be trusted . All men must be tested against
the Truth . The bible I KNOW to be a true book . Its men and their stuff and doctrines
that must always be tested .
its simple really . Its men that complicated everything .
It folks would simply return to reading the bible for themselves
one would marvel at how simple things could have been cleared up in time .
its men who added in their own doctrines to the peoples that caused problems .
While some things were true, MOST were truths with errors .
SO if folks would put down their OSAS , or whatever dispensalisism , Rcc or etc
And let us learn for ourselves , I am telling us much could be cleared up in time .

 

[rwb]

1Chro 21:1 Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
2Sam 24:1 Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

Read both chapters (same story) and tell me who incited David to number Israel.

There is no contradiction! God uses evil spirits to accomplish His purposes! There is NO contradiction, rather we are supplied with more detail, greater clarity for why the LORD allowed Satan to try David. The lesson for David might have been to teach him not to rely on evil spirits, but rather to heed the instruction of the LORD, listen to Him. If only Adam and Eve had listened to God rather than listening to the voice of the serpent!!!

1 Kings 22:20-23 (KJV) And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Job 1:8-11 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Job 1:12 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Genesis 50:20 (KJV) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

 

[rwb]

That one always got me, and I thought, can the anger of the LORD signify Satan,H7854 or could the anger of the LORD signify an adversary,H7854 since Satan means adversary, its just the way its worded between them

For example here even

Numbers 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary H7854 against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

2 Sam 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Ch 21:1 And Satan H7854 stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Can't say for sure though.

There is no contradiction! There is better clarity, understanding when both are read together and one remembers that when necessary, God has always used evil to bring about good. In this case by allowing an evil spirit to test David, David learned valuable lessons we should all take notice of.

 

[Lambano]

What difference does it make?

THAT is a good question. Let's talk about it.

The Evangelists Matthew, Mark, and Luke included the story of Jairus to show that Jesus has the power and authority to raise the dead. (Admit it; that's impressive.) It makes no difference to their purpose whether the poor little girl was already dead when Jairus came to Jesus, or died while Jesus was busy curing some lady's hemorrhage. The point is that Jesus resurrected her.

For the person who needs to prove that the Bible is contradiction-free or your money back, it makes a huge difference. It forces the reader to:

1. Change what the Bible says about the girl being dead.
2. Deny that Jesus raised the dead.
3. Threaten to burn their their Bibles.

People, it isn't necessary to twist the scriptures like that. We don't need to be so damn insecure about the Bible being "true". That "all or nothing" attitude is harmful.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Bible loses credibility because people who don't know any better try to convince us the Bible is not trustworthy because God contradicts Himself! This is absolute folly! THRE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS WITH GOD!

Rwb . any guesses on WHY men who do this do so .
To get our trust on THEM .
Specially in these late and last hours . As an agenda was born
to reunify the RCC with all denominations and even with the false religoins .
THEY KNEW , satan and his co w orkers knew
You have to put the emphasis on a worldy version of love that all will see as love .
You have to use scripture in a way that supports a false love
and do so within all denomaintions as well as false religoins .
TO MERGE the worlds religoins and christanity
YOU HAVE do remove all of their fundemantal values
cause they all contradict one another
You pump and keep pumping in a version of love that all religoins and even the atheists
see as love and as good .
You have to make and plant doubt
in the bible , or at least make it seem as though one cannot learn the scrips on their own .
THEY KNEW exactly what they were doing my friend .
And alas over time they have now recreated a love god , a god who all denominations
and the false religoins will all beleive IS GOD and IS LOVE .
Only , IT THE DEVIL in wool leading this people as one to the day of their own destruction .
SO , WE GONNA stay PLANTED in THE BIBLE my friend . sheep dont heed twisters
Sheep HEED JESUS . Onward in the trenches my friend .

 

[rwb]

I asked a well versed orthodox Jew and he said - Satan is just a servant of the Lord.

Imagine the depth of their blindness.

OTOH, it would explain.

However our Christian minds shiver with these kind of contradictions.

Satan can do and does only that which God allows. There are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the Word of God! Only those who are themselves looking for contradiction will try to force God to contradict Himself.

 

[rwb]

Rwb . any guesses on WHY men who do this do so .
To get our trust on THEM .
Specially in these late and last hours . As an agenda was born
to reunify the RCC with all denominations and even with the false religoins .
THEY KNEW , satan and his co w orkers knew
You have to put the emphasis on a worldy version of love that all will see as love .
You have to use scripture in a way that supports a false love
and do so within all denomaintions as well as false religoins .
TO MERGE the worlds religoins and christanity
YOU HAVE do remove all of their fundemantal values
cause they all contradict one another
You pump and keep pumping in a version of love that all religoins and even the atheists
see as love and as good .
You have to make and plant doubt
in the bible , or at least make it seem as though one cannot learn the scrips on their own .
THEY KNEW exactly what they were doing my friend .
And alas over time they have now recreated a love god , a god who all denominations
and the false religoins will all beleive IS GOD and IS LOVE .
Only , IT THE DEVIL in wool leading this people as one to the day of their own destruction .
SO , WE GONNA stay PLANTED in THE BIBLE my friend . sheep dont heed twisters
Sheep HEED JESUS . Onward in the trenches my friend .

Yes, as Solomon tells us, "there is nothing new under the sun." This desire to bring doubt upon the Word of God is why Adam and Eve were deceived by the serpent. The serpent that was created to be more cunning and crafty than all, GOD allowed to be in the garden with His new created humans, created "very good" to test them to see if they would heed His voice, or would they give way to temptation and listen to the voice of evil.

Your kind words are a blessing to the forum - thank you.

 

[rwb]

THAT is a good question. Let's talk about it.

The Evangelists Matthew, Mark, and Luke included the story of Jairus to show that Jesus has the power and authority to raise the dead. (Admit it; that's impressive.) It makes no difference to their purpose whether the poor little girl was already dead when Jairus came to Jesus, or died while Jesus was busy curing some lady's hemorrhage. The point is that Jesus resurrected her.

For the person who needs to prove that the Bible is contradiction-free or your money back, it makes a huge difference. It forces the reader to:

1. Change what the Bible says about the girl being dead.
2. Deny that Jesus raised the dead.
3. Threaten to burn their their Bibles.

People, it isn't necessary to twist the scriptures like that. We don't need to be so damn insecure about the Bible being "true". That "all or nothing" attitude is harmful.

Better still, why not simply quote what the Bible actually says, as I have done! And stop trying to create a feel-good bible that appeals to the flesh! If we aren't secure in the trustworthiness of the Bible, why bother with it at all? Let's just continue on as we have from the beginning, listening to the voice of evil that asks, "hath God said?"

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 

[Lambano]

My favorite contradiction: Matthew says Judas Iscariot committed suicide by hanging.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:5)

Dr. Luke says he fell (or was he pushed?)

Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18)

No less a luminary than John MacArthur had to invent some cockamamie story about the rope breaking and then he fell and splattered his guts out. Possible, but it makes you question the epistemological framework that FORCES the reader to add something to the Bible that isn't there. Why is that even necessary?

My theory is that St. Simon the Zealot slit his throat in some Jerusalem back alley. Zealots knew how to handle traitors.

 

[Lambano]

And stop trying to create a feel-good bible that appeals to the flesh!

But isn't that exactly what you're doing? Trying to create a bible that appeals to a need for internal coherency while denying what it actually says?

 

[Taken]

How can you find the truth when biblically supported views contradict?

Excellent topic that routinely instigates debate Between men.

BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS?
BIBLICAL POLAR OPPOSITES?

ABSOLUTELY!

Lawfully / Legally / it is Called:
POSITIVE LAW
NEGATIVE LAW

Scripturally / it is Called:
The LAW…(positive)
CURSE……(negative)

FREEWILL…CHOICES…CAVEATS….

“IF”…>>> the Caveat.
“THEN”…>>> the Caveat.

“IF”…. A man “chooses / DOES”….”THIS” (named thing);
“THEN” … “THIS” (named thing);
WILL BE… the mans CONSEQUENCE / (named Result)

”IF”….A man “DOES NOT” (not IS a negative),
“CHOOSE “THIS POSITIVE” (named thing),
”THEN”… A man “WILL” Have the “NEGATIVE / Polar Opposite / Consequence / (named Result).

In short… (POSITIVE)
IF a man Freely CHOOSES…
To hear, believe, trust, be WITH the Lord God Almighty…
THEN that man’s CONSEQUENCE …
“IS”, the Lord God Almighty SHALL “BE”WITH, That man…

In short… (NEGATIVE)
IF a man Freely CHOOSES…
To NOT hear, NOT believe, NOT trust, NOT be WITH the Lord God Almighty….
THEN that man’s CONSEQUENCE ..
“IS”, the Lord God Almighty SHALL “NOT” be WITH, That man.

Scriptural Complete polar Opposites?

Absolutely.

And Any man Can Read, Hear, Learn, the Scriptures AND…
Follow / Do / step by step, bit by bit…
* All the Positives
OR
* All the Negatives (opposites)


Be informed, diligent, Choose you wisely… be prepared for the consequence.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rwb]

My favorite contradiction: Matthew says Judas Iscariot committed suicide by hanging.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:5)

Dr. Luke says he fell (or was he pushed?)

Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18)

No less a luminary than John MacArthur had to invent some cockamamie story about the rope breaking and then he fell and splattered his guts out. Possible, but it makes you question the epistemological framework that FORCES the reader to add something to the Bible that isn't there. Why is that even necessary?

My theory is that St. Simon the Zealot slit his throat in some Jerusalem back alley. Zealots knew how to handle traitors.

Why do you doubt the truthfulness of both accounts TOGETHER? Is it because you have determined the Word of God cannot be trusted because you think it filled with contradiction?

 

[Taken]

My favorite contradiction: Matthew says Judas Iscariot committed suicide by hanging.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:5)

Dr. Luke says he fell (or was he pushed?)

Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (Acts 1:18)

No less a luminary than John MacArthur had to invent some cockamamie story about the rope breaking and then he fell and splattered his guts out. Possible, but it makes you question the epistemological framework that FORCES the reader to add something to the Bible that isn't there. Why is that even necessary?

My theory is that St. Simon the Zealot slit his throat in some Jerusalem back alley. Zealots knew how to handle traitors.

Judas purchased land, his property.
On his land he hanged himself in a tree.
When discovered, the rope was cut,
his dead body, dropped to the ground.

Speculation…
Some of the Disciples went looking for Judas.
To Report their findings… THEY likely Found him on land he “purchased”.

Fact: (Matt 27: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
The specific 30 pieces of Silver, Judas returned to the Chief priests…( that they used to purchase a potters field / cemetery).

Speculation…
He HUNG himself upside down (by his feet bound).
He WOULD have likely DIED from (Starvation / Dehydration) a painful death.

Some facts…
* It takes average, 10 days Without Food or Water, for a man to Die.
* IN 4-10 days (depending on conditions, hot sun, cool cave) before guts burst through the flesh).
* Judas was hanging outside.
* when he was found, the rope cut, he fell to the ground HEAD first.
* Gases build up in dead Bodys… 4- 10 days after death, and the Internal Gases are of high pressure and Cause the flesh to burst open and the gaseous organs burst forth outside the body.
* the gases released from a dead body are a nauseating, disgusting, putrid, offensive, gagging smell to a living man.

The smell is from the gases of “hydrogen sulfide”…
“Rotten Eggs” are a mild form of the smell of “hydrogen sulfide”.

FYI … the “Continuous Smell”, unsaved departed living souls, experience IN Hell…
“Is Hydrogen Sulfide …Sulfur”…
With NO relief!

Both reports Are True. One gives more specific details than the other.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Lambano]

Is it because you have determined the Word of God cannot be trusted because you think it filled with contradiction?

Would you stop following Jesus if you realized there really was a contradiction in the Bible?

What is your faith ultimately in? The Bible? Or Jesus Christ?

 

[rwb]

Would you stop following Jesus if you realized there really was a contradiction in the Bible?

What is your faith ultimately in? The Bible? Or Jesus Christ?

I will never come to believe there is contradiction in the Word of God!

Why would anyone try to separate Christ and the written Word?

John 1:1-4 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It is only through Christ, by His written Word that man might have faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God.

Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Lambano]

Speculation…
He HUNG himself upside down (by his feet bound).
He WOULD have likely DIED from (Starvation / Dehydration) a painful death.

Notice that it's necessary to conjure up speculate something that's not in the Bible in order to resolve the contradiction. Why do we need to do that?

 

[Lambano]

Why would anyone try to separate Christ and the written Word?

John 1:1-4 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Greek word translated "The Word" here does not refer to scripture itself. Logos here in Greek also means "the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe" and is the personification of God's creative power like the personified "Wisdom" in Proverbs 8:22-31:

22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

 

[HealthyShape]

Logos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scriptures are not "logos" (or logia), but graphé (or graphas). Logos is a specific concept in Hellenistic philosophy and John refers to that concept in his prologue.