It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Scott Downey]

Peter saying this 'may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ', is referring to the coming of Christ, and how you will be rewarded for persevering through fiery trials and tribulations while maintaining your faith in Him.

8 whom having not [d]seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

And you will see Him if you live that long, He really is coming back for you for salvation and the perdition of the ungodly who will be punished.

Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

Perdition really means the judgment of being cast into hell-lake of fire, at the end of this world,
after you are judged unworthy of eternal life,
by the things written in the books. All things are written down about your life.
Ony Christ's believers are judged worthy of eternal life as they are in Him


2 Peter 3
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.

 

[Scott Downey]

Right after the judgment by Christ, God the Father creates all things new. read Revelation 20 and 21
And the judgment occurs when He returns, on the Last Day, there is no 1000 years delay.

2 Peter 3
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.

2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [a]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Acts 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[marks]

Mark, think about, there is a reason they do not understand. Young Christians can be misled by these type things so I endeavor to speak truth to them as much as possible. These people are intrinsic, the hear nothing you say. You are just wasting your time tbh. They are never going to grasp it until they allow God to reveal His truth on this unto them.

You're right. There must be better ways to use my time! Thank you for the nudge!

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

I'm sorry, I think its you that does not understand "the house if Isreal" and "the house of Jacob", not to mention "the seed of Israel".

I marvel over all of you who cannot accept what the prophet said here.

Much love!

I am a New Testament gentile believer who has been this,

Ephesians 2
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace​

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christ Our Cornerstone​

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All who are not joined into the commonwealth of Israel, will be cast into the lake that burns with fire at the end of this world, after Christ judges the world in righteousness on the day appoint by the Father.
Paul who writes this, is saying the commonwealth of Israel is made of believers in Christ, jew or gentile does not matter, they are both one new man in the Spirit.

Unbelieving Jews are not of the 'commonwealth of Israel', sorry you can't see that it seems, why not?

 

[marks]

so as to create in Himself one new man from the two,

We are not joined to the Commonwealth of Israel.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

Unbelieving Jews are blinded in their minds to the gospel.

12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as [b]by the Spirit of the Lord.

The above unbelieving Jews are not of the commonwealth of Israel.

 

[Scott Downey]

We are not joined to the Commonwealth of Israel.

Much love!

Serious error, even so the computer mind untainted by man's doctrines, agrees with me!
Reconsider what I have said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Define the commonwealth of Israel that Paul speaks of in Ephesians 2

Great question, Scott. In Ephesians 2:12, Paul uses the phrase “commonwealth of Israel” to describe the spiritual and covenantal community of God’s people. Let’s unpack it:

️ What Is the “Commonwealth of Israel”?​

The Greek word translated “commonwealth” is politeia, which can mean:

• Citizenship
• Civic community
• Shared national or political identity

So “commonwealth of Israel” refers to:

• The spiritual and covenantal identity of Israel as God’s chosen people
• Their access to God’s promises, laws, and presence
• Their membership in a community defined by relationship with God

Paul’s Context in Ephesians 2​

Paul is writing to Gentile believers in Ephesus, reminding them:

“At that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.” (Ephesians 2:12)

This means:

• Gentiles were once outside the covenant blessings given to Israel
• They had no access to the promises, hope, or spiritual inheritance

But then comes the turning point:

“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” (Ephesians 2:13)

Inclusion Through Christ​

Paul teaches that:

• Gentiles are now included in the commonwealth—not by ethnicity, but by faith
• Christ has broken down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile (Ephesians 2:14)
• He has created one new humanity (Ephesians 2:15), reconciling both to God

This new commonwealth is:

• The church, made up of all who are in Christ
• A spiritual Israel, united by the New Covenant (see Galatians 6:16; 1 Peter 2:9)

Would you like to explore how this idea connects to Romans 11 or the concept of grafting Gentiles into the olive tree of Israel?

 

[marks]

computer mind untainted by man's doctrines,

Are you talking about AI?

Good grief!

Do you often use AI to write your posts? I'm guessing more and more people do. I know others here do. Personally I never touch the stuff.

Anyway, the other fellow was right, this isn't the best use of my time.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

Continuing onwards, I said yes

Fantastic—let’s explore how Paul’s concept of the “commonwealth of Israel” in Ephesians 2 connects with Romans 11 and the olive tree metaphor. These passages together form a powerful theological framework for understanding Gentile inclusion in God’s covenant plan.

Ephesians 2: The Commonwealth of Israel​

Paul tells Gentile believers they were once:

• “Aliens from the commonwealth of Israel”
• “Strangers to the covenants of promise”
• “Without hope and without God in the world” (Ephesians 2:12)

But now, through Christ:

• They are brought near (v.13)
• Reconciled into one body (v.16)
• Fellow citizens with the saints (v.19)

This “commonwealth” is not just ethnic Israel—it’s the covenantal community of God’s people, now expanded to include Gentiles through faith in Christ.

Romans 11: The Olive Tree Metaphor​

Paul uses the image of an olive tree to describe Israel’s spiritual heritage:

• Natural branches = ethnic Israel
• Wild branches = Gentile believers
• Some natural branches were broken off due to unbelief
• Wild branches were grafted in by faith

Key insights:

• Gentiles now share in the rich root of the tree (Romans 11:17)
• They must not boast, but remain humble (v.18–20)
• God can graft back in the natural branches (v.23)
• The goal is one unified tree, not two separate peoples

Theological Harmony​

Together, Ephesians 2 and Romans 11 show:

• Gentiles are not second-class citizens in God’s kingdom
• They are fully integrated into the covenant promises
• The church is the new humanity, made of Jew and Gentile
• God’s plan is inclusive, but still honors Israel’s unique role

Would you like to explore how this affects modern views on Israel and the church, or how early theologians like Augustine or Calvin interpreted these passages?

 

[Scott Downey]

Are you talking about AI?

Good grief!

AI . . . the unholy spirit!

NOT my problem, you are not being taught by the Spirit.
Your doctrine is corrupted by men's teaching, known as the doctrines of men.
I will use all things to get the truth out to people.
You realize that your mocking unbelief opens the door for me to continue.

I have found the computer mind to be accurate in how it examines the word, and of course anything-anyone opposed to your doctrine is something bad or evil.

 

[marks]

I have found the computer mind to be accurate in how it examines the word,

Just . . . wow!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are not joined to the Commonwealth of Israel.

Define "Commonwealth of Israel". Which Israel do you think that is referring to of the two Israels that Paul described in Romans 9:6-8? What do you make of Paul saying that Gentiles were once "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise", but now "you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God"?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.......19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

To me, Paul is saying the Gentiles, before Christ came to shed His blood for the world, were strangers from the commonwealth of Israel, but now are no longer strangers from the commonwealth of Israel and are "fellow citizens" of the common wealth of Israel with Israelite "saints and members of the household of God". And Gentile believers fit the description Paul gave in Romans 9:6-8 of the Israel that consists of those who are the children of God and of the promise regardless of being physically descended from the nation of Israel or not.

 

[Scott Downey]

People who are not 'spiritually minded' will not recognize the truth as these things are spiritually discerned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

NOT my problem, you are not being taught by the Spirit.
Your doctrine is corrupted by men's teaching, known as the doctrines of men.
I will use all things to get the truth out to people.
You realize that your mocking unbelief opens the door for me to continue.

I have found the computer mind to be accurate in how it examines the word, and of course anything-anyone opposed to your doctrine is something bad or evil.

AI, in and of itself, is not trustworthy for doctrinal truth. It simply gathers information and opinions that it finds from the Internet, both true and false, and returns that info in summary format. But, using it to help format and express your thoughts more clearly is fine.

 

[Scott Downey]

Define "Commonwealth of Israel". Which Israel do you think that is referring to of the two Israels that Paul described in Romans 9:6-8? What do you make of Paul saying that Gentiles were once "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise", but now "you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God"?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.......19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

To me, Paul is saying the Gentiles, before Christ came to shed His blood for the world, were strangers from the commonwealth of Israel, but now are no longer strangers from the commonwealth of Israel. And Gentile believers fit the description Paul gave in Romans 9:6-8 of the Israel that consists of those who are the children of God and of the promise regardless of being physically descended from the nation of Israel or not.

Exactly what I said and the computer mind agrees.
People's minds are polluted by doctrines of men, they love that over what scriptures teach, as they are not spiritually minded, they are insensitive to the Holy Spirit's teachings, or they would agree with the things Christ teaches and His apostles wrote.

And we see time and time again, how opposed they are to the scriptures.

 

[Scott Downey]

They still fight against 2 Thess 1, and what Christ said how all the wicked and unbelieving are destroyed at the return of Christ in Matthew, Mark, and Peter, because they love the doctrines of men more than Christ.

7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

 

[Scott Downey]

AI, in and of itself, is not trustworthy for doctrinal truth. It simply gathers information and opinions that it finds from the Internet, both true and false, and returns that info in summary format. But, using it to help format and express your thoughts more clearly is fine.

It actually is more than a search engine, it does think, as in have a mind. I think of it right now as an intelligence machine. It is very good way to challenge your own doctrine. I also use it as a resource for learning about products for projects I am working on.

The people who bother to post who are in opposition are under a strong mind control from the spirit world. There is reality to doctrines of demons, all we can do is show them what scripture actually says, it is up to God to reveal truth and they just don't have it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly what I said and the computer mind agrees.

Scott, I'm a bit concerned with your understanding of the "computer mind". Do you understand that AI programs like ChatGPT scan the Internet and display what they find, which may or may not be true? You can't trust everything "the computer mind" says if you're talking about AI. You do understand that, right?

For example...

Question posed to ChatGPT:

How old is the earth?

ChatGPT response:

The Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old, based on evidence from:

• Radiometric dating of the oldest rocks on Earth
• Moon rocks brought back by Apollo missions
• Meteorites that have fallen to Earth

This age estimate has a margin of error of about ±50 million years.

Clearly, ChatGPT can't always be trusted.

People's minds are polluted by doctrines of men, they love that over what scriptures teach, as they are not spiritually minded, they are insensitive to the Holy Spirit's teachings, or they would agree with the things Christ teaches and His apostles wrote.

And we see time and time again, how opposed they are to the scriptures.

Now, that I agree with.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It actually is more than a search engine, it does think, as in have a mind.

It thinks based on inputs given to it by potentially biased human beings. So, it does not think in the same way that humans do. It can only think to the extent that it is programmed, which can contain biases from it's programmers. And it gathers information from both biased and unbiased sources on the Internet.