WHY JESUS AND THE TWELVE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE CROSS

[Davy]

Pentecost was not the beginning of the church in this dispensation, it pertained to believing Israel, however we are saved by Christ dying for our sins and raised for our justification

You don't know when the Church really began, and no doubt neither do your teachers.

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

 

[Doug]

Acts 2:23-24​

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King James Version​

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23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

This passage does not Peter preaching the cross for salvation to all
It merely states the fact that they were guilty of crucifying Jesus

 

[Doug]

You don't know when the Church really began, and no doubt neither do your teachers.

It depends which church you are talking about, if you are talking about the body of Christ, it started somewhere after Paul's conversion in Acts 9

 

[Davy]

It depends which church you are talking about, if you are talking about the body of Christ, it started somewhere after Paul's conversion in Acts 9

No, it began when The Gospel was preached to Abraham, like Apostle Paul said in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

I get tired of religious hypocrites that act like Evolutionists at the Smithsonian. The religious hypocrites deny Apostle Paul's teaching about Abraham's FAITH being belief on The Gospel of Jesus Christ just as we have believed. Those religious hypocrites acts just like the evolutionists who deny God's creation.

Rom 4:9-13
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Abraham's FAITH on The Gospel of Jesus Christ was reckoned PRIOR to his circumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Like Paul also said in Galatians 3, that those of FAITH have become "the children of Abraham." That means ALL of those of Christ's Church who have believed on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Abraham was FIRST to believe, and God counted Abraham's FAITH as righteousness, and that PRIOR to Abraham being circumcised.

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
KJV

Thus the Law never was first. The FAITH on the Promised blessing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was always first.

 

[Davy]

Mark 16:15-18 applies to the twelve. They were commanded to obey this. This was interrupted by the dispensation of grace but resume in the tribulation. They were to preach the gospel of the kingdom and those who believed had to be baptized to enter the kingdom on earth.

Matthew 28:19 once again was a command to the disciples. This will be fulfilled after the kingdom on earth is established. They will teach the Gentile nations that have entered the kingdom.

For the most part water baptism was to cleanse and purify and to remit sins. They had to believe on the name of Jesus, believe he was Christ, the Son of God.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Doug's example above is pretty much what I was talking about regarding the doctrines of men called Hyper-Dispensationalism, or Hyper-Grace. They wrongly attempt to divide The Four Gospels, and the Old Testament prophets apart from Apostle Paul's Epistles.

To them the ONLY Bible relative to Christ's Church are Paul's Epistles. This is why Doug attempts to make distinctions between the gospel "of the kingdom" vs. the cross and "gospel of Christ".

He has wrongly been taught by Hyper-Dispensationalists to treat what Lord Jesus and His Apostles preached about the Gospel being meant ONLY for Jews, and those of that time of His 1st coming, which in majority the Jews rejected.

Doing that makes Hyper-Dispensationalism a CORRUPT & FALSE DOCTRINE, simply because Apostle Paul when speaking about Christ's Church, Paul covered many Old Testament Scriptures from the prophets, and also directly from Lord Jesus and the other Apostles. The specific ones in the Church that Paul had problems with were his brethren Jews that were converts to Christ who had come from groups like the Pharisees (Acts 15:1-5; Acts 15:24).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Alot from my Bible study but my teachers teach rightly dividing, grace, mid acts teacherSo you believe that the Jews who got saved in Acts 2&3 got saved apart from faith in th edeath of Jesus or the cross?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Pentecost was not the beginning of the church in this dispensation, it pertained to believing Israel, however we are saved by Christ dying for our sins and raised for our justification

Yes it was for it was Pentecost where the Holy Spirit first indwelt believer4s and even Paul said that is the church. Paul in Ephesians taught the church is comprised of Jew and gentile- butyou would exclude all the jews until when?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This passage does not Peter preaching the cross for salvation to all
It merely states the fact that they were guilty of crucifying Jesus

So you believe Peter did not preach salvation by faith in the death and resurrection to the Jews in the early chapters of acts? How did these jews get saved after the Holy Spirit began to infill believers at Pentecost? If they did not recognize Jesus as Messiah, they could not be saved!

 

[Doug]

No, it began when The Gospel was preached to Abraham, like Apostle Paul said in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

I get tired of religious hypocrites that act like Evolutionists at the Smithsonian. The religious hypocrites deny Apostle Paul's teaching about Abraham's FAITH being belief on The Gospel of Jesus Christ just as we have believed. Those religious hypocrites acts just like the evolutionists who deny God's creation.

Rom 4:9-13
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Abraham's FAITH on The Gospel of Jesus Christ was reckoned PRIOR to his circumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Like Paul also said in Galatians 3, that those of FAITH have become "the children of Abraham." That means ALL of those of Christ's Church who have believed on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Abraham was FIRST to believe, and God counted Abraham's FAITH as righteousness, and that PRIOR to Abraham being circumcised.

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
KJV

Thus the Law never was first. The FAITH on the Promised blessing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was always first.

[Rom 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The gospel revealed to Paul was kept secret since the world began and therefore could not have been given to Abraham, otherwise it would no longer be a secret

[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The gospel to Abraham was "in thee shall all nations be blessed".........not being condescending but you can know what the gospel is because it says "saying" ...............saying means that is what Abraham was told

 

[Doug]

Doing that makes Hyper-Dispensationalism a CORRUPT & FALSE DOCTRINE, simply because Apostle Paul when speaking about Christ's Church, Paul covered many Old Testament Scriptures from the prophets, and also directly from Lord Jesus and the other Apostles

Yes Paul cited a lot from the law and the prophets to make them manifest and to be applied to us as well. Here is an example..............................[1Co 9:9-10 KJV] 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

[Rom 16:25-26 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:........ Paul's gospel and the preaching of Christ was by the mystery AND the law and the prophets

 

[Doug]

You said..............So you believe that the Jews who got saved in Acts 2&3 got saved apart from faith in th edeath of Jesus or the cross?

Peter didnt preach the cross. He preached the gospel of the kingdom. He preached that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God and that by believing that they had eternal life.

 

[Doug]

Yes it was for it was Pentecost where the Holy Spirit first indwelt believer4s and even Paul said that is the church. Paul in Ephesians taught the church is comprised of Jew and gentile- butyou would exclude all the jews until when?

At Pentecost there was the kingdom new testament church of God, the believing remnant of Israel

To Paul revealed he formed the church the body of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile

 

[Doug]

So you believe Peter did not preach salvation by faith in the death and resurrection to the Jews in the early chapters of acts? How did these jews get saved after the Holy Spirit began to infill believers at Pentecost? If they did not recognize Jesus as Messiah, they could not be saved!

At Pentecost, present was the church of God, the believing remnant of Israel, new testament kingdom church
They were saved by believing on the name of Jesus, that he was the Christ, the Son of God
After Pentecost Peter continued to preach the name of Christ and water baptism for remission of sins and receiving the Holy Ghost.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

At Pentecost there was the kingdom new testament church of God, the believing remnant of Israel

To Paul revealed he formed the church the body of Christ composed of Jew and Gentile

So you believe in two churches since Pentecost! Proof?

At Pentecost, present was the church of God, the believing remnant of Israel, new testament kingdom church
They were saved by believing on the name of Jesus, that he was the Christ, the Son of God
After Pentecost Peter continued to preach the name of Christ and water baptism for remission of sins and receiving the Holy Ghost.

YOu are periluously close to preaching another gospel and another Jesus. You are warned to cease these foolish reinterpretations of Scripture.

 

[Muna]

The cross, the Gentiles

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written,
Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Muna]

The cross, the Gentiles

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written,
Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The cross, all men

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

After God raised him up form the dead,

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

The blessing of Abraham is shown here in how God would justify the heathen

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And again, the blessing of Abraham is shown here starting on a tree (the cross)

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written,
Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Doug]

So you believe in two churches since Pentecost! Proof?

There are 3 churches in the Bible

The church in the wilderness......................[Act 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:...................they are referred to a congregation and were believers who followed the Lord..........................[Exo 12:3 KJV] 3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth [day] of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of [their] fathers, a lamb for an house:

There was the church of God that Paul persecuted who were the believing remnant of Israel. They believed on his name, that he was their Christ, the Son of God. This was the church referred to in Acts 2.........................[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Last is the body of Christ with Christ at the head, revealed only thru Paul.........................[1Co 12:27 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

 

[Doug]

So you believe in two churches since Pentecost! Proof?

YOu are periluously close to preaching another gospel and another Jesus. You are warned to cease these foolish reinterpretations of Scripture.

I am only citing scripture where we find a progressive relation
Peter preached the name of Jesus
We are given to know how Christ provided salvation to all by the cross

 

[LoveYeshua]

There are 3 churches in the Bible

The church in the wilderness......................[Act 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:...................they are referred to a congregation and were believers who followed the Lord..........................[Exo 12:3 KJV] 3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth [day] of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of [their] fathers, a lamb for an house:

There was the church of God that Paul persecuted who were the believing remnant of Israel. They believed on his name, that he was their Christ, the Son of God. This was the church referred to in Acts 2.........................[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Last is the body of Christ with Christ at the head, revealed only thru Paul.........................[1Co 12:27 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

just to tease and so you might ponder on it seriously, are you part of the church of Christ or the church of Paul that you put above Christ? No need to reply I already know the answer.

 

[amigo de christo]

YOU sure about that ...........
And HE who does NOT PICK UP HIS CROSS and follow me , is not worthy of ME . THEMS JESUS WORDS .
OH yeah HE preached the cross .