IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

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David in NJ

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Well the main thing that took place right before they left
was the first passover by which all who took the blood of the lamb and spread it upon their door posts
were kept safe .
Which brings up a lovely allegory that would point to THE TRUE PASSOVER LAMB
and how HIS BLOOD was is not upon the outside of the house
BUT UPON THE HEART OF THE SHEEP that cleanses THE the inner conscious of a man .
However i have no idea what the answer is you are looking for my friend .
Blood was instructed . without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins . THOUGH in
the case of the law it was outward
The BLOOD is the ANSWER = the BLOOD always goes before the water baptism

A.) the LORD performed a Blood sacrifice for Adam & Eve = animal skins came from a living animal that was killed

B.) Abel's righteous sacrifice was a Blood animal sacrifice

C.) Noah was instructed and performing Blood animal sacrifices BEFORE he built the Ark

D.) Abraham cut a Bull in half = Blood sacrifice = God walked thru the sacrifice to PERFORM the Covenant

E.) John the Baptist water baptism could not save anyone = it was a call to repentance unto CHRIST

F.) CHRIST offers Himself as the Final BLOOD Sacrifice Prophesied by God beginning with Adam & Eve/Noah/Moses/OT Prophets

G.) Water baptism is outward sign of the inward circumcision of the heart = because of CHRIST DEATH on the CROSS

H.) HOLY SPIRIT Baptism is the 2nd Promise of the FATHER which requires the Blood Atonement of Christ
 

amigo de christo

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The BLOOD is the ANSWER = the BLOOD always goes before the water baptism

A.) the LORD performed a Blood sacrifice for Adam & Eve = animal skins came from a living animal that was killed

B.) Abel's righteous sacrifice was a Blood animal sacrifice

C.) Noah was instructed and performing Blood animal sacrifices BEFORE he built the Ark

D.) Abraham cut a Bull in half = Blood sacrifice = God walked thru the sacrifice to PERFORM the Covenant

E.) John the Baptist water baptism could not save anyone = it was a call to repentance unto CHRIST

F.) CHRIST offers Himself as the Final BLOOD Sacrifice Prophesied by God beginning with Adam & Eve/Noah/Moses/OT Prophets

G.) Water baptism is outward sign of the inward circumcision of the heart = because of CHRIST DEATH on the CROSS

H.) HOLY SPIRIT Baptism is the 2nd Promise of the FATHER which requires the Blood Atonement of Christ
To the trenches my friend . The hour is late and the power and influence of the ecumincal whore grows great .
We in a war my friend . The glorious CHRIST JESUS is our hope and our salvation my friend .
 

amigo de christo

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The BLOOD is the ANSWER = the BLOOD always goes before the water baptism

A.) the LORD performed a Blood sacrifice for Adam & Eve = animal skins came from a living animal that was killed

B.) Abel's righteous sacrifice was a Blood animal sacrifice

C.) Noah was instructed and performing Blood animal sacrifices BEFORE he built the Ark

D.) Abraham cut a Bull in half = Blood sacrifice = God walked thru the sacrifice to PERFORM the Covenant

E.) John the Baptist water baptism could not save anyone = it was a call to repentance unto CHRIST

F.) CHRIST offers Himself as the Final BLOOD Sacrifice Prophesied by God beginning with Adam & Eve/Noah/Moses/OT Prophets

G.) Water baptism is outward sign of the inward circumcision of the heart = because of CHRIST DEATH on the CROSS

H.) HOLY SPIRIT Baptism is the 2nd Promise of the FATHER which requires the Blood Atonement of Christ
always remember a harlot knows how to lie .
And she will sell any man the desires of his heart to get him to join her .
She a WHORE and a liar and the mother of all abominations of the earth .
She has her many hirelings
will please the flesh of man in order to get the dollars outta them pockets .
SHE cares not for the sheep , she is a hireling and she has decked herself in a very ornameted WOOL dress .
Yeah , I SAID WOOL cause THE WHORE USES the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST to seduce this people .
 

amigo de christo

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The BLOOD is the ANSWER = the BLOOD always goes before the water baptism

A.) the LORD performed a Blood sacrifice for Adam & Eve = animal skins came from a living animal that was killed

B.) Abel's righteous sacrifice was a Blood animal sacrifice

C.) Noah was instructed and performing Blood animal sacrifices BEFORE he built the Ark

D.) Abraham cut a Bull in half = Blood sacrifice = God walked thru the sacrifice to PERFORM the Covenant

E.) John the Baptist water baptism could not save anyone = it was a call to repentance unto CHRIST

F.) CHRIST offers Himself as the Final BLOOD Sacrifice Prophesied by God beginning with Adam & Eve/Noah/Moses/OT Prophets

G.) Water baptism is outward sign of the inward circumcision of the heart = because of CHRIST DEATH on the CROSS

H.) HOLY SPIRIT Baptism is the 2nd Promise of the FATHER which requires the Blood Atonement of Christ
You might seem to notice i HATE the doctrine of this ecumincal interfaith whore .
And to many that might seem as a hateful thing to say .
But the doctrine of a harlot is the doctrine of a harlot .
And GOD was well pleased and even said to a church
BUT THIS YOU HAVE that YOU HATE the deeds of the nicolations which i also HATE .
AND IF ANYONE here thinks GOD IS WELL PLEASED with this broad road all religoins serve the same GOD
THEY BETTER THINK AGAIN . JESUS HAS BEEN TROD UNDER FOOT for a LIE
The DOCTRINE OF THE HARLOT IS EVIL and VILE and wicked to my ears and to my eyes my friend .
AND IT WILL SAVE NONE . so where is the LOVE IN THAT WHORE . She loves only power , emenice and dollars .
I Expose her and her childrens works and doctrines . MY MIND is MADE UP DAVID .
IF it contradicts CHRIST , OH ITS GETTING EXPOSED .
 

amigo de christo

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This might come as a surprise and even a shock to many .
BUT NO LIE is OF THE TRUTH . THAT IS A FACT .
And EVERY WORD OF GOD IS THE TRUTH .
thus anything that contradicts any OF HIS WORDS , is a FAT LIE . sheep dont eat of the tables of lies
No matter if those who sell the lies wear wool .
TO SHEEP ITS LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .
 
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David in NJ

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This might come as a surprise and even a shock to many .
BUT NO LIE is OF THE TRUTH . THAT IS A FACT .
And EVERY WORD OF GOD IS THE TRUTH .
thus anything that contradicts any OF HIS WORDS , is a FAT LIE . sheep dont eat of the tables of lies
No matter if those who sell the lies wear wool .
TO SHEEP ITS LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .
"no lie is of the truth"

Do you remember who shared that with you and stressed it over and over again???

"he who has a ear to hear what the HOLY SPIRIT says to the churches"
 

Marvelloustime

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This might come as a surprise and even a shock to many .
BUT NO LIE is OF THE TRUTH . THAT IS A FACT .
And EVERY WORD OF GOD IS THE TRUTH .
thus anything that contradicts any OF HIS WORDS , is a FAT LIE . sheep dont eat of the tables of lies
No matter if those who sell the lies wear wool .
TO SHEEP ITS LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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You might seem to notice i HATE the doctrine of this ecumincal interfaith whore .
And to many that might seem as a hateful thing to say .
But the doctrine of a harlot is the doctrine of a harlot .
And GOD was well pleased and even said to a church
BUT THIS YOU HAVE that YOU HATE the deeds of the nicolations which i also HATE .
AND IF ANYONE here thinks GOD IS WELL PLEASED with this broad road all religoins serve the same GOD
THEY BETTER THINK AGAIN . JESUS HAS BEEN TROD UNDER FOOT for a LIE
The DOCTRINE OF THE HARLOT IS EVIL and VILE and wicked to my ears and to my eyes my friend .
AND IT WILL SAVE NONE . so where is the LOVE IN THAT WHORE . She loves only power , emenice and dollars .
I Expose her and her childrens works and doctrines . MY MIND is MADE UP DAVID .
IF it contradicts CHRIST , OH ITS GETTING EXPOSED .
@amigo de christo
save-image.png
 

Doug

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even if i showed it to you
you will twist it .
BUT its pretty clear in romans ten
That if unbelieving jews were CAST OUT due to their unbeleif
And if we continue NOT IN HIS GOODNESS can be cast out
BEING CAST OUT has not a good end , ITS UNBELEIF dude .
OR how about his warnings in colossians ,
in hebrews and a few other places . OH yeah he warned the church
JUST as JESUS had first warned . As if somehow paul was opposed to JESUS . yeah RIGHT .
you all pick and choose what you desire to beleive and have twisted it to fit what you want to beleive .
You all do not fool me . SO allow me some parting words
I PRAY you will take heed to .
EVERY WORD OF JESUS IS FOR US , as well as every letter written by them apostels .
BIBLE TIME , the days of picking and choosing MUST COME TO AN END .
EITHER WE BELEIVE IT ALL or WE HAVE DECIEVED OURSELVES .
That if unbelieving jews were CAST OUT due to their unbeleif
And if we continue NOT IN HIS GOODNESS can be cast out
BEING CAST OUT has not a good end , ITS
Romans 11 is not about us the body of Christ, Paul is talking about the believing remnant of Israel...........................[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[Rom 11:17 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;.....................the Gentile believers were grafted into the believing remnant

[Rom 11:21 KJV] 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.......the Gentiles could be cut off as well thru unbelief
EVERY WORD OF JESUS IS FOR US , as well as every letter written by them apostels .
BIBLE TIME ,
Yes FOR US NOT all about us or to us
 
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Doug

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Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14


For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
This is written to Jews suffering persecution. They were being exhorted not to revert back to the Levitical temple worship to escape persecution. They would not receive a full reward in the kingdom.

By the way, what is meant by crucifying Christ again for themselves is them reverting back to all the sacrifices that Christ fulfilled. They were putting him to shame in diminishing his once for all sacrifice to redeem Israel
 

LoveYeshua

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Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to Tribulation​

The doctrine commonly referred to as the “pre-tribulation rapture” posits that Christ will secretly gather His faithful from the earth prior to a period of intense suffering and divine judgment, commonly labeled the tribulation. However, when the eschatological teachings of Jesus and the Apostolic witness are carefully surveyed, this concept finds no explicit support. Rather, Scripture consistently presents a chronology in which tribulation precedes the visible return of the Son of Man and the gathering of the elect.

Christ’s Own Testimony Regarding the Sequence of Events​

Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, delineates the signs of the end times and the final consummation. He explicitly connects cosmic disturbances and tribulation with His parousia (coming):
  • Matthew 24:29-31 (NKJV) states:
    “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened… and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels… and gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Here, the temporal marker “immediately after the tribulation” situates the gathering of the elect subsequent to, not prior to, the tribulation. The language of visibility—“they will see the Son of Man”—further underlines the public and manifest nature of this event, in contrast to the notion of a secret rapture preceding trials.

Jesus emphasizes both the inevitability of tribulation and the necessity of perseverance:
  • John 16:33 (NKJV): “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
  • Matthew 24:42-44 (NKJV): “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming… Therefore you also be ready.”
From these passages, it is evident that disciples are called to endurance and vigilance, not to expect temporal exemption from the trials associated with the end times.

The Apostolic Witness in Revelation​

The visions of John in Revelation 7:14 (NKJV) provide a complementary perspective on the eschatological journey of the faithful:
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

The passive construction “come out of” implies endurance through tribulation rather than removal prior to it. The purification of the elect, symbolized by the whitening of their robes, is intrinsically linked to their passage through the tribulation. This aligns coherently with Christ’s teaching that tribulation is an unavoidable aspect of the eschatological period for believers.

Theological Implications​

From a theological standpoint, the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture presents several incongruities when juxtaposed with the corpus of Jesus’ eschatological teaching:
  • Chronological Integrity: Jesus consistently situates the gathering of the elect after tribulation, thereby suggesting a linear and inescapable progression rather than an escape from tribulation.
  • Ethical and Spiritual Formation: Tribulation is presented not merely as punitive, but as formative and purifying. The endurance of trials cultivates the holiness and steadfastness of the elect—a process incompatible with pre-tribulation removal.
  • Public Manifestation: The return of Christ is depicted as visible and undeniable. Any conception of a secret removal of the faithful prior to tribulation lacks scriptural corroboration from the eyewitness testimony of the Apostolic era.
  • Redemptive Purpose: Tribulation also serves as the stage upon which the faithfulness of the elect is vindicated. The eschatological narrative emphasizes that salvation is not merely escape from adversity but participation in the triumph of Christ through it.

Hermeneutical Conclusion​

When interpreting eschatological passages, the sequence of events, the language of visibility, and the thematic function of tribulation must be taken as authoritative. The testimony of Jesus and the Apostles collectively affirms that:
  • The tribulation is a historical and spiritual reality that precedes the gathering of the elect.
  • Believers are not promised temporal exemption but are called to vigilance, endurance, and faithfulness.
  • The eschatological culmination is public and vindicatory, encompassing the purification and glorification of the faithful through rather than before tribulation.
Consequently, the theological posture consistent with the words of Jesus and His disciples is that the rapture, understood as the gathering of the elect, occurs after or in the midst of tribulation, not as a secret pre-tribulational event.
 

JLB

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This is written to Jews suffering persecution. They were being exhorted not to revert back to the Levitical temple worship to escape persecution. They would not receive a full reward in the kingdom.

By the way, what is meant by crucifying Christ again for themselves is them reverting back to all the sacrifices that Christ fulfilled. They were putting him to shame in diminishing his once for all sacrifice to redeem Israel

This was written to Christians.

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
 

Doug

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This was written to Christians.

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
They were in Christ but they were the believing remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ. Only in the body of Christ is there neither Jew or Gentile. Paul was persecting this remnant church before the body of Christ was revealed and formed by Christ
 

JLB

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They were in Christ but they were the believing remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ. Only in the body of Christ is there neither Jew or Gentile. Paul was persecting this remnant church before the body of Christ was revealed and formed by Christ

Makes no sense.


Again the book of Hebrews was written to Christians; Hebrew Christians
 

Doug

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Makes no sense.


Again the book of Hebrews was written to Christians; Hebrew Christians
But how did they become Hebrew Christians........what gospel preaching did they believe?
 

amigo de christo

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Romans 11 is not about us the body of Christ, Paul is talking about the believing remnant of Israel...........................[Rom 11:5 KJV] 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[Rom 11:17 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;.....................the Gentile believers were grafted into the believing remnant

[Rom 11:21 KJV] 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.......the Gentiles could be cut off as well thru unbelief

Yes FOR US NOT all about us or to us
what a bag of deception dude . IT is about the BODY OF CHRIST . you just learned dead wrong .
AS if . i tried to warn you and all , I Dont heed twisted doctrine friend .
NOW into the BIBLE YOU NEED GO
and read it for YOU without the influence of men . Open and read . cause you been tricked my friend .
 

amigo de christo

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But how did they become Hebrew Christians........what gospel preaching did they believe?
whether a man was born a jew or a gentile . ITS THE ONE SAME AND ONLY GOSPEL
that JESUS first preached and later the twelve did and later paul did .
AS I SAID you been tricked dude .
Now open bible . its not heavy nor will be you struck down with a curse , AND READ IT FOR YOU .
Enough with satans nar realm and his RCC .
WE BETTER GET IN the bible for our own selves . MEN been fleecing for a long time .
 

amigo de christo

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Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to Tribulation​

The doctrine commonly referred to as the “pre-tribulation rapture” posits that Christ will secretly gather His faithful from the earth prior to a period of intense suffering and divine judgment, commonly labeled the tribulation. However, when the eschatological teachings of Jesus and the Apostolic witness are carefully surveyed, this concept finds no explicit support. Rather, Scripture consistently presents a chronology in which tribulation precedes the visible return of the Son of Man and the gathering of the elect.

Christ’s Own Testimony Regarding the Sequence of Events​

Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, delineates the signs of the end times and the final consummation. He explicitly connects cosmic disturbances and tribulation with His parousia (coming):
  • Matthew 24:29-31 (NKJV) states:
    “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened… and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels… and gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Here, the temporal marker “immediately after the tribulation” situates the gathering of the elect subsequent to, not prior to, the tribulation. The language of visibility—“they will see the Son of Man”—further underlines the public and manifest nature of this event, in contrast to the notion of a secret rapture preceding trials.

Jesus emphasizes both the inevitability of tribulation and the necessity of perseverance:
  • John 16:33 (NKJV): “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
  • Matthew 24:42-44 (NKJV): “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming… Therefore you also be ready.”
From these passages, it is evident that disciples are called to endurance and vigilance, not to expect temporal exemption from the trials associated with the end times.

The Apostolic Witness in Revelation​

The visions of John in Revelation 7:14 (NKJV) provide a complementary perspective on the eschatological journey of the faithful:
“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

The passive construction “come out of” implies endurance through tribulation rather than removal prior to it. The purification of the elect, symbolized by the whitening of their robes, is intrinsically linked to their passage through the tribulation. This aligns coherently with Christ’s teaching that tribulation is an unavoidable aspect of the eschatological period for believers.

Theological Implications​

From a theological standpoint, the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture presents several incongruities when juxtaposed with the corpus of Jesus’ eschatological teaching:
  • Chronological Integrity: Jesus consistently situates the gathering of the elect after tribulation, thereby suggesting a linear and inescapable progression rather than an escape from tribulation.
  • Ethical and Spiritual Formation: Tribulation is presented not merely as punitive, but as formative and purifying. The endurance of trials cultivates the holiness and steadfastness of the elect—a process incompatible with pre-tribulation removal.
  • Public Manifestation: The return of Christ is depicted as visible and undeniable. Any conception of a secret removal of the faithful prior to tribulation lacks scriptural corroboration from the eyewitness testimony of the Apostolic era.
  • Redemptive Purpose: Tribulation also serves as the stage upon which the faithfulness of the elect is vindicated. The eschatological narrative emphasizes that salvation is not merely escape from adversity but participation in the triumph of Christ through it.

Hermeneutical Conclusion​

When interpreting eschatological passages, the sequence of events, the language of visibility, and the thematic function of tribulation must be taken as authoritative. The testimony of Jesus and the Apostles collectively affirms that:
  • The tribulation is a historical and spiritual reality that precedes the gathering of the elect.
  • Believers are not promised temporal exemption but are called to vigilance, endurance, and faithfulness.
  • The eschatological culmination is public and vindicatory, encompassing the purification and glorification of the faithful through rather than before tribulation.
Consequently, the theological posture consistent with the words of Jesus and His disciples is that the rapture, understood as the gathering of the elect, occurs after or in the midst of tribulation, not as a secret pre-tribulational event.
For not only is it given unto US to BELEIVE ON CHRIST JESUS
but also to suffer FOR HIS NAME sake . THEY ALL KNEW . This generation is just far too in love
with MY BEST LIFE NOW , GET ME THAT MONEY and TELL ME HOW I WONT have to ever suffer for JESUS .
That nar realm is infected with satans co workers , but it is NOT the only one . Beware the RCC
and beware JW , mormonism , Sda and scores of others .
Sheep dont sit and enjoy lies and twisted doctrines .
NO LIE is of the TRUTH .
And every single WORD OF GOD IS THE TRUTH . Sheep dont omit TRUTH to attain worldy pleasures and comforts .
SHEEP dont . this is what sheep do .
LET GOD BE TRUE but every man a liar . TO US GOD IS TRUE , HIS WORDS INFALLIBLE , HIS WORD INFALLIBLE
but all men are to be tested and done so AGAINST such pure and holy words .
But many seem to love those who omit such words in favor of the life they loved in this world . that too is a fact .
 

Doug

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what a bag of deception dude . IT is about the BODY OF CHRIST . you just learned dead wrong .
AS if . i tried to warn you and all , I Dont heed twisted doctrine friend .
NOW into the BIBLE YOU NEED GO
and read it for YOU without the influence of men . Open and read . cause you been tricked my friend .
If Romans 11 is talking about the body of Christ how can we be grafted into Israel, seeing we are a new creature where there is neither Jew or Greek?
 
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Doug

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whether a man was born a jew or a gentile . ITS THE ONE SAME AND ONLY GOSPEL
that JESUS first preached and later the twelve did and later paul did .
AS I SAID you been tricked dude .
Now open bible . its not heavy nor will be you struck down with a curse , AND READ IT FOR YOU .
Enough with satans nar realm and his RCC .
WE BETTER GET IN the bible for our own selves . MEN been fleecing for a long time .
Please show me where Peter preached the death and resurrection for eternal life for all
 
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