Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[rwb]

Then it serves as a refreshing view of the Creator, not as the never ending Judge of 1/3 of the angels and the majority of humans, but of an extremely merciful and gracious Father figure.

While I can appreciate knowing that the Spirit of Christ in us will use ways and means of revelation outside of what is written, I also know that anything we say is of the Spirit of Christ must be weighed against that which is written. We know what is written and have blessed assurance of what is written not because the Bible is our idol, but because the Word tells to search the Scriptures, and that is that which God has providentially given us in written form. It is through the Scriptures, the written Word of God that "the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

John 5:39 (KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[rwb]

Some may mock this relationship we have but what if you are wrong in your judgement? What if it's not evil unclean spirits I hear but the Holy Spirit, not sent by Satan, but God?

The only way man can know while clothed in bodies of sin and death is to test the Spirit/spirit against what is written. What has been written will either confirm that it is of the Spirit of Christ, or it will confirm another spirit is working through that human nature within man where there will always be a struggle between the new man in Christ, and the old man, natural nature that we all continue to struggle against our whole lives.

 

[rwb]

I'm more than happy retelling the great news of the love of God demonstrated in His giving His Son as the Sacrificial Lamb Who takes away sin, and being a Ransom for ALL who were going to the lake of fire forever and ever.

For the wages of sin is death.

And there's MORE! Don't stop there. Here's more of God's narrative.

BUT the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord!!

Since you say you know the Bible after many years, if this is true you should speak all the sacrificial Lamb of God says about being the ransom for sin. You are only speaking in part about who and why some will have part in lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[rwb]

What a privilege it is to be able to present Christ Jesus to those lost in the darkness of Satan's kingdom. Then to make disciples of those who repent and run to Jesus, making Him their Lord, Saviour and King. Satan hates me and many others because we have and continue to make disciples of Jesus the Creator.

This sounds very noble and honoring to God, but the written Word of God instructs us to give those who are lost in darkness and death the whole council of God. Not just that part that makes them feel good. If the Christ, you present only speaks of God's mercy, but denies God's justice, then you are not speaking a word from the Spirit of Christ, but one from another spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

If one believes the Spirit of God has revealed to them that all humanity shall be saved, it cannot be the Spirit of Christ working in them. Because, though I believe the Spirit speaks to believers through means other than the written Word of God, He will not speak anything that causes contradiction and confusion upon the written Word. For this reason we must test that which we believe proceeds from the Spirit of Christ against that which is written.

Here's the problem with that from my perspective.

There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
1) Damnationism (the forever burning hell)
2) Annihilationism (the wicked completely destroyed)
3) Ultimate Redemption (Christian Universalism)

Putting Universalism aside for the moment,
Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory to each other.

Putting Universalism back in play, we have three contradictory doctrines.

In reality, the Bible has many contradictions. Ask any atheist.

[

 

[rwb]

Here's the problem with that from my perspective.

There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
1) Damnationism (the forever burning hell)
2) Annihilationism (the wicked completely destroyed)
3) Ultimate Redemption (Christian Universalism)

Putting Universalism aside for the moment,
Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory to each other.

Putting Universalism back in play, we have three contradictory doctrines.

In reality, the Bible has many contradictions. Ask any atheist.

[

I don't find contradiction between the three! There will only be apparent contradiction when you try to elevate one to fit a doctrine/opinion and ignore the others.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Here's the problem with that from my perspective.

There are three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
1) Damnationism (the forever burning hell)
2) Annihilationism (the wicked completely destroyed)
3) Ultimate Redemption (Christian Universalism)

Putting Universalism aside for the moment,
Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory to each other.

Putting Universalism back in play, we have three contradictory doctrines.

I don't find contradiction between the three! There will only be apparent contradiction when you try to elevate one to fit a doctrine/opinion and ignore the others.

Allow me to help you understand the contradictions.

1) Damnationism (the forever burning hell)
Claims that eternal conscious torment awaits the vast majority of humankind.

2) Annihilationism (the wicked completely destroyed)
Claims that the vast majority of humankind will be completely destroyed.
No eternal conscious torment awaits them. They will be gone.

3) Ultimate Redemption (Christian Universalism)
Claims that humankind will face an Age of restoration.
Judgement will involve evaluation, correction, restoration and redemption.
The fire will burn away the wood, hay and stubble.

[

 

[Hillsage]

While I can appreciate knowing that the Spirit of Christ in us will use ways and means of revelation outside of what is written,

Agreed.

I also know that anything we say is of the Spirit of Christ must be weighed against that which is written.

Agreed.

We know what is written and have blessed assurance of what is written not because the Bible is our idol, but because the Word tells to search the Scriptures, and that is that which God has providentially given us in written form.

Problem for me starts now, with 'what is written'. By you, and scripture.

I believe you are taking Joh 5:39 out of context. The literal Greek of vs 39 isn't saying there IS LIFE in the written. It is written "Ye think" but the understanding there is 'Ye are thinking wrongly'. Which case is further confirmed by verse 40.

John 5:39 (KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
JOH 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The "me" in that verse is not a written book.

It is through the Scriptures, the written Word of God that "the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I find it interesting that the words "holy scriptures" in vs 15 are unique. That word for "holy" comes from a Greek word never used again in the NT. And the word "scriptures" comes from a Greek word used 14 times in the NT, but only 1x was it ever translated as "scriptures". Hmmm????

So does "holy scriptures" vs 15 and "All scripture" vs 16.....complement, negate or just confuse traditional thinking? I'm still not sure myself.

We know what is written and have blessed assurance of what is written not because the Bible is our idol,

For me, I will not idolize anything 'written by man'. And the BIBLES are already there, to 40,000+ denominations. IMHO

 

[Marvelloustime]

Many heed the lips of a jw , a mormon , a RCC solider , an SDA
and many other things . Cause they already creeping to b e as one with all of them .
TIS no wonder why so many odd doctrines have come in amongst us all over the years .
And now they doing the same with Christendom and muslims , b uddists and etc .
Many are NOT gonna make it jack .
They too in love with judge not lets just find common ground and have unity and this false version of LOVE
they now beleive TO BE OF GOD . ITs g onna merge them as one . AS ONE mind , one heart
One love , one unity ALL under what they ALL will beleive is GOD and LOVE .
ONLY , IT AINT GOD OR HIS LOVE . ITs dragon love that has made ready their hearts
to be as one . Nimrod love and now they build their all inclusive many path many strange and diverse stone tower
THEY all beleive is the way to heaven . ONLY , NOPE its all coming DOWN on the day of the LORD
and every diverse stone in it gonna wail and wail and wail .
Cause i repeat , GOD WILL NOT be DENIED
and if one denies JESUS is the CHRIST they do DENY GOD
and if one tries to add a big kumybia ending that entails naught but a lie , UNBELEIF
WELL they shall surely wail . We cant add too or t ake from THE WORDS of the LORD
lest we be found the liar .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

With renewed effort and joy of the LORD , let us begin afresh in the scriptures to learn for ourselves .
Bible time in the building to be stirred up by way of remembrance .
As even peter , paul and others had wrote such letters to the churches to STIR them up .
Bible time in the house . And what i say to you , i say to all , BIBLE TIME .
The more we learn and stay refreshed THEN AMEN . cause we got many fleecers in this late and final hour upon earth .

@amigo de christo

 

[Behold]

Do I go to the bible as my first port of call when it comes to finding answers to questions, forming/reforming doctrinal beliefs, gaining a knowledge of the Creator, accessing all truth and every word that proceeds from the mouth of God? No. I haven't made this my practice for years.

So you dont use a Bible for years you admit....., you just listen to voices in your head.

That is what i thought you told us. Thanks for the confirmation @One 2 question

 

[amigo de christo]

So you dont use a Bible for years you admit....., you just listen to voices in your head.

That is what i thought you told us. Thanks for the confirmation @One 2 question

 

[Marvelloustime]

Let this wee thing show you WHY i often tell us we need to be IN the bible for ourselves .
Because that man can nail you on what you last stated .
And we both know a Jw is dangerous . But often many do not know
the scrips that well and even IF they are correct to expose the errors of such a camp
THEY can leave themselves open to appear to be IN ERROR and thus make the other camp LOOK right .
Read mathew chapter twelve my friend .
FOR WHOSOEVER does the will of MY FATHER the same is my brother , sister , mother .
I knew he was going to get you when you wrote that JESUS is not your brother .
THOUGH I know what you meant by this . because often folks DO NOT treat JESUS with the respect due HIM .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

So long as you are correcting those in error its good enough for me my friend .
And so long as you dont call those haters who might rebuke sharply that is fine with me .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

IF any preaches ANY OTHER gospel unto you let them be accursed .
You do realize that if one comes and lips HE beleives JESUS is the CHRIST and that GOD rose him from the dead ,
AND THEN TURNS AROUND and with
those same lips ADDS TO OR TAKES FROM the gospel
OF YE MUST BELEIVE TO BE SAVED
THEY PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL my friend . And that wont bode well for them at their end .
CAUSE calling the gospel a lie by implying somehow it dont matter if one beleived or not
IS TO DENY THE GOSPEL
AND thus in effect THEY DO DENY JESUS
and thus THEY DO DENY GOD and call HIM a liar .
And that aint A GOOD END at all for those who do such a thing . We better all be on gaurd
cause the RCC and its INVENTION of abraham accords interfaith interreligious dialgoue
IS D ARN SURE BEING DONE now by EVEN MANY PROSTESTANTS . A FIERCE fire awaits them
We better GET OUT OF this and have no part of it . expose it and preach JESUS now . WHILE there still be time to do so .

@amigo de christo

 

[Jack]

They said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

I said unto you: ‘The servant is not greater than his lord.’ If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.

I declare that Satan is a liar and the father of all lies. Satan deserves to be judged for the gross evil and wickedness he has carried out on this planet and deserves to be thrown into the lake of fire. As do his angels.

And don't forget, YOU told this WHOPPER: "ALL humans have sinned against God and all are going to hell forever and ever."

Therefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, except by the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ the Son of God the Creator is Lord, in fact, my Lord.

What a privilege it is to be able to present Christ Jesus to those lost in the darkness of Satan's kingdom. Then to make disciples of those who repent and run to Jesus, making Him their Lord, Saviour and King. Satan hates me and many others because we have and continue to make disciples of Jesus the Creator.

 

[Jack]

Do you want to take a stab in the dark?

How could I know. You don't even seem to know what you are. lol

 

[rwb]

Problem for me starts now, with 'what is written'. By you, and scripture.

I believe you are taking Joh 5:39 out of context. The literal Greek of vs 39 isn't saying there IS LIFE in the written. It is written "Ye think" but the understanding there is 'Ye are thinking wrongly'. Which case is further confirmed by verse 40.

John 5:39 (KJV) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
JOH 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

The "me" in that verse is not a written book.

I will not separate the Word from the Savior! The Word is how we might know and believe the Savior. You know this and even quoted the verse that tells us the written Word of God testifies or is the testimony of/about Christ.

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:10-14 (KJV) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Testify - to be a witness, i.e. testify (literally or figuratively):—charge, give (evidence), bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain) witness.

For me, I will not idolize anything 'written by man'. And the BIBLES are already there, to 40,000+ denominations. IMHO

Translations are written by man! The written Word that became flesh, God promised would never depart from us. It is the product given man from men of Old who wrote under inspiration as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[One 2 question]

If one believes the Spirit of God has revealed to them that all humanity shall be saved, it cannot be the Spirit of Christ working in them. Because, though I believe the Spirit speaks to believers through means other than the written Word of God, He will not speak anything that causes contradiction and confusion upon the written Word. For this reason we must test that which we believe proceeds from the Spirit of Christ against that which is written.

1 John 5:7-8 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Yes. I agree with John. With regard to that particular vision I received, the 3 were very much a part of it and in agreement. The Spirit glorified the Father in the finished work of Christ when They reconciled everyone to Themselves.

 

[One 2 question]

How could I know. You don't even seem to know what you are. lol

I'm certain. And it's very simple. The Spirit of the Creator testifies with my spirit that I am a child of the Divine Father Who created all things.