Your lunatic decapitated 70th week is incapable of explaining anything.
70th Week and Day of the Lord are separate events.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Your lunatic decapitated 70th week is incapable of explaining anything.
I already explained it; maybe not on this thread though.
What event ended Christ's Ministry at His 1st coming? His crucifixion. If the final 70th week of Daniel 9:27 was part of Christ's Ministry, then the Daniel 9:26 verse should have said Messiah would be "cut off" (crucifixion) after the 70th week, it does not say that. The Daniel 9:26 verse says Messiah would be "cut off" after the 69th week.
The 7 weeks mention in the Daniel 9:25 verse is NOT about the 70th week mentioned in Daniel 9:27. It instead is about the 1st Period of the 70 weeks prophecy when the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem went out.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It's only your fault that you don't know what the word "determined" means in Daniel 9:24. We agree that the 70 weeks equates to 490 years. So, in your view, instead of 490 years being determined to fulfill the prophecy, as the text in Daniel 9:24 states, it will take at least over 2,500 years for the prophecy to be fulfilled.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What comes after 69? 70. So, the Messiah being cut off AFTER the 69th week means He would be cut off during the 70th week. Do you know what the word "after" means?
I think I know what is going on here....If you remember the movies "Cool Hand Luke" with Paul Newman there is a famous line made by Strothers Martin - "I think we have here a failure to communicate." That's it... so let's see if we can go about "fixin" this here thing....
Let's say you are going to get in your pickup in Tifton, Georgia and you want to drive yonder to Valero, Va., which is the town just on the border between N. Caroliner and Virginnee. You are goin to drive north to visit with your cousin Bubba who owns a successful pig farm there. So, you get in your pick up and drive 49 miles and pull over at the Piggly Wiggly because you forgot to gas up and you want to get yourself some coffee and grits. Now, member, make sure you check to see if you have to pee or poo before you get back on the road.
Now, you continue to drive north on the highway until you see a sign that says, "Welcom to Virginee - one mile ahead." Well, you look down at your odometer and discover you have driven another 434 miles since leaving the Piggly Wiggly... that means you have driven a total of --- hold on, got to do some ciphering here.... oh, yea, you have dreiven a total of 483 miles to the boder line. You can see the bright yellow line painted across the road... "it says," you are at the border line - yea, you are "rytch here." So, you recognize that you have driven 483 miles and nothing has happened to you or your pick up... you almost have made it. You only have 7 more miles to go - but even now, you can smell your cousin's pig farm....smells like home!
Now, before you cross over that there yellow line, make sure you check to see if you have any Virginnee warrants. If you don't I suggest you drive real slow and continue on.... remember, your cousin Bubba warned you that these last 7 miles over the border are heavily patrolled by the po po (Smokey), so be on the look out! But JUST AFTER you cross over into mile marker 484 you see the po po behind you and you start to sweat... you know they don't like out of state drivers especially from Georgia. But they continue to follow behind you and then they light up their "berries and cherries" (blue and red lights), and pull you over exactly 3.5 miles over the Virginnee border. So Smokey writes you up a ticket for having alcohol in your pick up... No matter what you say he doesn't believe you... you keep tellin him it is just a mason jar full of pee... and he can check it if he wants to... but of course, he doesn't want to.. and you will have to take it to court if you want to fight it.....
You then continue on to your cousin's pig farm and tell him everything that happened to you especialy being pulled over by the po po on THIS SIDE OF THE BORDER. You tell him that AFTER YOU DROVE A TOTAL OF 483 MILES, YOU WERE THEN PULLED OVER AND GOTTEN A TICKET. He says, "Oh," sorry to hear that, do you mean you got a ticket within the last 7 miles since you crossed over into Virginnee? And you say, "No, it was after I drove over 483 miles," And Bubba tells you, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get."
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
1. Construction of the walls around Jerusalem were ordered by Sultan Sulieman but completed in 1541. So this whole construction of a timeline is based on walls built?
2. The 70th Week of Daniel was an accurate prophecy/ timeline for the Messiah's 1st Coming only. The Great Tribulatiin spoken of in Revelation is
3 1/2 years.
3. Your 2020 date is not exact, you leave it out and imply that adding 1260 days to theAbraham Accord lines up with Oct. 7, 2023. It doesn't they weren 't finalized with Israel til Dec. 2020.
- September 15, 2020: Israel, the UAE, and Bahrain signed the initial agreements.
- October 23, 2020: Israel and Sudan agreed to normalize ties.
- December 10, 2020: Israel and Morocco agreed to establish full diplomatic relations.
4. Your application of the AOD to Oct. 7 is ridiculous. When The Antichrist attacks Israel, 2/3 of the Jews will die ( that's 6 million) and 1/3 spared.
5. The evends of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are NOT SYMBOLIC.
6..We are in the Beginning of Sorrows with the wars, pestilence ( Covid 19), famine, earthquakes in various places. But the devastation of the 4 horsemen result in 2 billions deaths. We are taken out ( 2.7 billion believers), then another 1/3 is destroyed from the remaining. Tally it up and over half the people are killed during a period of 3 1/2 years.
Some persevere to the end. Blessed are those who make it to day 1335.
The end times clock is ticking. To me and many others, this generation (80 years from1948) will see the Great Tribulation. So it must at least start by 2028, but I don't adhere to the Gap theory! God sent Gabriel with an accurate prophecy about Jesus 1st Coming, in the 70th week. It did not have to be finished; he was cut off in the middle of it. HE DID NOT CHANGE HIS MIND because of something the Jews did or did not do, He knows the future.
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Dave Watchman
Active Member
This is the subject which I think is the big issue. The biggie issue. It can't really be explained in an internet post. We need like a couple books on it. It's not when the construction was completed, or even if it were ever constructed or not. It's from the going forth of the decree, the command to rebuild, which starts the clock ticking.
There's 3 camps, 1535, 1536 and 1537. I'm a 1535 guy. From the Isaac Newton theory. We were working on his deal since 2013. There were more people who began earlier. My group was best. We had a pastor's wife from Florida who got the empirical from a private Israeli legal blog. The actual written decree dated 1968, signed in January 1969, by President Levi Eshkol. He died the very next month of a massive heart attack.
I continue to insist on 1535, because I also have 1969. 1969 was Rock and Roll time. 1969 confirms and validated 1535. There was a convergence with Jesus, Isaac Newton, and Levi Eschol at a meeting in the museum in Jerusalem. The meeting was arranged by Abraham Yehuda, and John Maynard Keynes. Ever hear of Keynesian economics? Yep, that's the guy.
Long story short, there's multiple timelines which are all converging on 2025, 2026, and 2027. I have good reason to default to the earliest date, that way I won't be late.
Peaceful Sabbath.
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Dave Watchman
Active Member
That is a funny note. You could be a comedy writer too.
And what I'll hesitate in saying here will sound bizarre, Davy is actually correct in how he has his words assembled, I don't think he knows how correct he is:
Daniel 9:27 is not the same "week", as the afore mentioned 9:26. We're talking different heptads.
In my world, both Davy, and Cassandra can be 100% correct in their timelines. Because like the first sentence of the OP of this thread, there are two separate sets of 70 weeks, two separate 70th weeks of Daniel 9.
It's no longer a theory anymore, we have the empirical. We have the decrees in our hand. Newton thought that the 7 and 62 would be switched around as 62, and 7 weeks. That's what is manifest. Why did God do it like that? So that verse 26:
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off,
Would be differentiated from verse 27, which would have begun in January 2019.
Like newton had speculated, the 7 weeks would have their terminus at the second coming, prior to the second occurrence of the last 70th week. The 7 and 62 are switched around like a mirror image. This would create a special 50th year, a special Jubilee year which would herald the second coming of Christ. Newton called it "the compass of a Jubilee".
"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; - Isaac Newton.
1535 + 62 weeks of 434 years = 1969.
Peaceful Sabbath.
So then Daniel 9:24-27 is repeated for the second set of 70 weeks.That is a funny note. You could be a comedy writer too.
And what I'll hesitate in saying here will sound bizarre, Davy is actually correct in how he has his words assembled, I don't think he knows how correct he is:
Daniel 9:27 is not the same "week", as the afore mentioned 9:26. We're talking different heptads.
In my world, both Davy, and Cassandra can be 100% correct in their timelines. Because like the first sentence of the OP of this thread, there are two separate sets of 70 weeks, two separate 70th weeks of Daniel 9.
It's no longer a theory anymore, we have the empirical. We have the decrees in our hand. Newton thought that the 7 and 62 would be switched around as 62, and 7 weeks. That's what is manifest. Why did God do it like that? So that verse 26:
“And after the sixty-two weeksMessiah shall be cut off,
Would be differentiated from verse 27, which would have begun in January 2019.
Like newton had speculated, the 7 weeks would have their terminus at the second coming, prior to the second occurrence of the last 70th week. The 7 and 62 are switched around like a mirror image. This would create a special 50th year, a special Jubilee year which would herald the second coming of Christ. Newton called it "the compass of a Jubilee".
"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; - Isaac Newton.
1535 + 62 weeks of 434 years = 1969.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Please do a detailed verse by verse description of how and by whom those verses were or are fulfilled the second time around.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
No. Daniel 9 is one single prophecy that predicts the coming of the Son of Man. Because He now has two Visitations, there needed to be a method of containing, or embedding, multiple timelines for both of Messiah's trips. If the Old Time Jews would have redeemed their original 70 weeks, if they would have let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks, Daniel would have remained sealed.
(9:26 is specific to the first coming of Christ, 9:27 is specific only to the second set of 70 weeks, a specific final heptad of seven years.)
26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Verse 26 is pertaining to the first coming of Messiah only, the primary set of 70 weeks, the 1st 70th week. It's also distinguished from the second occurrence of the 70th week, by occurring: "after the sixty-two weeks". In the second set of the 70 weeks, the intervals are reversed with the 49 year span completing just prior to the final 70th week. Newton had posited that the the 7 weeks, the 49 years, was specific to the second coming. This is why he thought the intervals were split up as 7 AND 62, and not just stated as 69 weeks. The things Newton said to be looking for, are here now.
After the 62 weeks, Jesus dying, cut off, in the middle of the week on April 7, 30AD.
The people of Satan, the Roman Army, destroying Jerusalem.
And it gives this ancillary information, and until the end, the end we are in now, desolations are decreed to continue.
Fast forward 2000 years to the end of the second set of the 70 weeks, the 70th week in our modern time.
Then:
27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
This is not any part of a "week" in the first century. This is a complete and full "one week" that He, (Jesus), is confirming a covenant with many. It began in January 2019 with the Two Witnesses in operation. They stand before the Lord of the whole earth, not before mankind. Only God can see them. They are the measuring rod given to John that measures the inner court, the judgement of the living prior to Christ's return.
He (Jesus), shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. This is the end of probation. Two Witnesses made war on and killed. This would have been around half ways through 2021, summer/fall 2021. There are two services in the Temple. The last one to end is seen in the beginning of Revelation 8 in Heaven's Temple. The censer is used at the alter of incense. When that censer is cast down to earth, Jesus puts a final end to all sacrifice and all offering. "He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
"And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolator.”
These are multiple abominations in our modern times. Murders, adulteries, legalized abortions, legalized pornographies, legalized same sex marriage, and the popularization of the Sodomite culture. There's too many to list. Even the reprobate minded people who give their approval to these things.
"Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolator.” (Satan).
This hasn't happened yet. The desolator is Paul's Man of Sin whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming.
Like newton said:
"There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming.
Peaceful Sabbath.
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It is.
Jesus confirmed His Covenant with many for the 70th week, first through His own ministry and sacrifice at Calvary in the first half of the week (Matthew 26:28), then through His disciples' ministry in the last half of the week.
If He didn't confirm His Covenant at that time, then Matthew 26:28 and a whole lot of other Scripture is false.
But He did.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
Jesus became our sacrifice for sin, you are right. But it doesn't go forever. It's called the Everlasting Gospel, but not for everybody. There comes a point when it ends. When there remains no more sacrifice for sin. The the censer is cast down. All oblations are put an end to. This is the close of probation. The inner court in measured. The Covenant is confirmed. The outer court is lost. Do not measure them. That didn't happen in the 1st century 70th week. It belongs to verse 9:27.
"He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
But that is not what verse 9:27 is talking about. There were two services in the temple. The temple on earth was copy and shadow of the True Tent. Moses was told to be sure he made the temple as per the copy he was shown on the mountain.
After the the 70th week in the first century, the service at the alter of incense in Heaven's Temple had to continue going until Revelation 8 happened. It was the close of probation. Two Witnesses dead in the street. Half an hour of silence. The end of ALL oblations was just now recent in our times.
Just our understanding of it is false, or incomplete. The confirming of His covenant is happening, has just happened in real time. Mark of the beast, Seal of God, the judgement of the people alive prior to Christ's Arrival.
You're thinking of the individual, at the personal Savior level. But it had to encompass all of God's People who have been dwelling on the face of the whole earth. From the 1st century, until now. And then it ends. Probation closes.
"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Think of it like the wrap up phase. He made the covenant, now He is wrapping it up, confirming it, with the many who are alive now. Like the judgment of the living just before Jesus gets here.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Thank you for your comments and I am glad my earlier response to Davy was taken out in jest - that certainly was the intention.That is a funny note. You could be a comedy writer too.
And what I'll hesitate in saying here will sound bizarre, Davy is actually correct in how he has his words assembled, I don't think he knows how correct he is:
Daniel 9:27 is not the same "week", as the afore mentioned 9:26. We're talking different heptads.
In my world, both Davy, and Cassandra can be 100% correct in their timelines. Because like the first sentence of the OP of this thread, there are two separate sets of 70 weeks, two separate 70th weeks of Daniel 9.
It's no longer a theory anymore, we have the empirical. We have the decrees in our hand. Newton thought that the 7 and 62 would be switched around as 62, and 7 weeks. That's what is manifest. Why did God do it like that? So that verse 26:
“And after the sixty-two weeksMessiah shall be cut off,
Would be differentiated from verse 27, which would have begun in January 2019.
Like newton had speculated, the 7 weeks would have their terminus at the second coming, prior to the second occurrence of the last 70th week. The 7 and 62 are switched around like a mirror image. This would create a special 50th year, a special Jubilee year which would herald the second coming of Christ. Newton called it "the compass of a Jubilee".
"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; - Isaac Newton.
1535 + 62 weeks of 434 years = 1969.
Peaceful Sabbath.
There are so many issues you have brought up that could not possibly be addressed here.
But only recently (through this site) I learned of this two 70 years of weeks prophecy. And I also have not heard about a different week.
What I can say is that Daniel is by far the most difficult book to unpack and interpret - so much more than even Revelation. But that is because you need Daniel to understand Revelation so the heavy lifting is over.
Daniel 9:24-27, imo, represent the most important prophecy in scripture. It is ALL about the arrival and destruction of our Messiah. The first two verses, 24-25 are the “restorative” verses. They fulfill Jesus’ responsibility in God’s plan of salvation and restoration for His people and His city as they return from exile. They also give us the obligations of His people to restore the physical elements- the walls, the Temple, the streets, etc. This is why God carved the 70 weeks into sections- the two parties would have their own items to restore from their destruction by the Babylonians.
The Jews would indeed fulfill ALL of heir restorative responsibilities, and they would do so in the exact reverse order they were destroyed or taken away. However, there was one element they were incapable of restoring- that would be the very first item that was removed- the Ark of the Covenant which was hidden away by Jeremiah. The reason of course, is because only God could restore the “Presence of God” in the sanctuary. And that is also why God would set aside the last week or 7 years of the prophecy to His Messiah. His arrival in the very first day of the 70th week began His ministry and where He would fulfill His part of the restoration process. Thus, verses 24-25 capture the elements, timing and responsibilities for each party to restore everything that had been destroyed or taken away.
So, if the end of Daniel 9 had ended with verse 25, the restoration would be complete. All 70 weeks were completed and the prophecy fulfilled.
But as you know that wasn’t the end of the story. Instead, God would reveal those events that would also take place. And they would mirror the “restorative” verses found in 24-25. Verses 26-27 represents the “two destructive” verses that also provide us with those same things found in 24-25 and in reverse order. We find the destruction of the Messiah, the city and the sanctuary, etc. Everything found in 24-25 is found in 26-27 in reverse order and responsibilities.
There is so, so much more to these 4 verses. They easily take up the largest chapter in my commentary on Daniel.
Well, that is enough - just too much to cover and comment on…
If you or others have any interest in receiving a free copy of the commentary please send me a PM with your mailing address. If you want to keep your information confidential, the book is available through Amazon as of 2 weeks ago. Send me a PM for the ISBN # and title.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
This implies God didn't know how they would respond. He knew exactly how they would. All Prophecy is based on the fact that God is omniscient and Sovereign. Man cannot alter or change the course of history already seen,
and predestined. God's Plan is perfect. . They responded with the crucifixion, which was His purpose to die for our sins and raise from the dead.
Matt. 23:37 is just a statement of fact, how unwilling, stubborn the Jews were and mankind. The Bible points out man's sin nature that is bent on rejecting God, going his own way, disobedience, rebelliousness.
This entire theory of a second 70 weeks is conjecture, it's seems entirely manufactured, a house of cards that will collapse as easily as Joshua's prediction did.
Listen, we are close, within a few years. I'm fine with leaving it at that and not knowing the exact dates. And if I die first, then I'll be taken sooner.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Daniel 9 24-27 was a message TO the Israelites and Jerusalem - not to the world! <
..."to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins",
>For those who believed it was finished, their eternity was sealed in Christ. When Jesus said, "It is finished", that is what He meant. In heaven, outside of time, death was defeated. On earth, death was defeated die believers.<
... "and to make reconciliation for iniquity,"
> The Law was fuffilled. A way for Man was then made available to be reconciled to God.<
... "and to bring in everlasting righteousness,"
>Jesus is righteous. He brought his righteousness and imputed it to believers.<
... "and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy."
> in order to, to begin to seal up prophecy. The disciples began that process. The New Testament was written, finished and sealed up.
25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end thereof shall be with a flood, and until the end of the war desolations are determined.
>All Historical <
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
> Jesus brought a New Covenant. He confirmed it throughout His 3 1/2 year ministry, death and resurrection. He put an end to sacrifice. He was the final sacrifice. The Jews may have blindly continued, but to God, His Church, it was over.<
..."And for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
>Overspreading of abominations upon the Jews and Jerusalem began and continued throughout history. They are the desolate, and they will be enlightened at the consummation. This was an allusion to the end times, their future sufferings within the Church Age.
All historical! We have plenty of Eschatology to literally drawn from to describe the end time scenario.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
I totally agree. What we're addressing here is too big for a forum post, or a whole thread. If a text book were written on it, then a new version would be needed to replace it as the information is still unfolding. In other words, the book can't be written, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.
This is the key. If the Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks, if they would have let Jesus gather them as a hen gather's it's chicks, we wouldn't be talking about this right now. We would be in a completely different history. Now the NT has transferred some of the definitions, we in Christ, are Daniel's People now. Everything hinged on what the 1st century Hebrews would do.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. - Jesus
What if the Old Time Jews were willing? What if they did let their Messiah, our Messiah, gather them like a hen gathers it's chicks? Something different could have taken place with the OT conditional Judaic Prophecies. If they would have just let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks, there wouldn't have needed to be a second coming. Daniel 9 had to be written in a mysterious way which would encompass the primary coming of Messiah, and still embed the provision of a follow up Visitation. Ezekiel's temple could have been built already. But they missed the time of their Visitation. Jesus had to stick with the Script, so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
To Seal Both Vision and Prophet.
God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets prophesying, but He was giving them two different end time narratives, Everything would hinge on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks, and especially the first half of the 70th week.. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were "chawthak" or cut off. It really was Old Israel's one last and final chance:
- to finish the transgression,
- to put an end to sin,
- and to atone for iniquity,
- to bring in everlasting righteousness,
- to seal both vision and prophet,
- and to anoint a most holy place.
The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. The good news of the Kingdom of God would have travelled far and fast. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.
Then, after some time, Satan in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.
But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT and Revelation gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, the second set of 70 weeks are activated, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog after the thousand years of Revelation 20 are completed.
Does this describe how the crucifixion occurred?:
Him Whom They Have Pierced
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.
Is this how it happened after the Crucifixion? Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed as the Lamb if humanity had not turned Him over to the enemy? I don't remember too many of those tribes weeping very hard. Just mostly His family and close friends.
Even though I myself doubt Zechariah, or the OT version of the end times in the Judaic prophecies are happening anymore as they were written, they were conditional prophecies. Still there are certain parallels I find awesome.
"On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.
I imagine this as how it will be at Judgement Day at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20. A Day like no other. Where God is in control of the light, the temperature, the wind and everything else. That's going to be spooky man. A day like no other.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
Not really. It just attests to the fact that God is true to His Word. He is showing the universe how hard He has tried to give Old Jerusalem an honest chance. Obviously God, God the Father, knew what would happen. Jesus knew probably around the time John the Baptist was beheaded. But it is important to God's Word, that Scripture be fulfilled. It had to all be allowed to play out as it did.
You said: "Man cannot alter or change the course of history already seen,". Do you remember the one where the Children of Israel were sacrificing their babies as burnt offerings to Baal?
God speaking to Jeremiah:
"They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind. - Jeremiah 19:5
Nor did it even enter into the mind of God they would do such a thing. Did that sound like a surprise to a "predestine plan".
I am sorry to disagree with you Ron. If I were not sure, I wouldn't be saying it. We have the two modern day decrees carved into history. Newton knew about the one in 1535, he was writing his note in the mid 1700's. Isaac would have known to be looking for 1969. The things he thought to be anticipating, are here now in our time.
Timed out at the 7 and the 62 week indicators. No way these decrees can be random chance happenings. Isaac Newton would love to see one of our days, I'm sure that he will.
I agree, God's plan is perfection. Let God be true, and every man a liar.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I cannot find anywhere that there is a second 70 weeks of years prophey. The purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy was to reveal God's plan of restoration for His people and His city from Babylon. Chapter 9 discusses this completely and in much detail. It gives us the beginning and ending time of the prophecy. It breaks out the time sections within the 70 weeks that reveal who, how long and what will be restored within each section. It provides the responsibilities of each party within that restoration period. And it certainly culminates in the last week the arrival and destruction of the Messiah and the consequences that will follow (26-27). Nothing is left to chance or not addressed. Everything is accounted for... the prophecy is entirely complete in all of its aspects. God's plan of salvation for all of mankind ran through this restoration plan for His people and His city. This was desgined from before the beginning of the world. It had to happen this way - this is / was HIs Will.
Now, I and others can repeat this over and over again but that would / most likely not change anyone's interpretation - such as yours. So, it would be interesting to learn what verses are telling you there is an additional 70 weeks of years prophecy. What happens in these 490 years that did not take place in the Daniel prophecy? When does it start, when does it end? What verses speak to this?
There is no benefit to anyone for everyone to go back and forth citing their interpretations - I would suggest that you might provide this second set of 70 in as much detail as you want.... we can discuss it in parts to take it slow....
Dave Watchman
Active Member
I can find it. The first person to notice it was Isaac Newton in his Daniel 9 commentary. That commentary got buried for a couple hundred years and eventually was bid on in auction by Abraham Yehuda, and John Maynard Keynes. Yehuda won and planned to take it from England to a museum in Jerusalem, but he died and it got stuck in the courts. A strange coincidence was that when the documents finally made it out of probate and into the museum in Jerusalem, it was 1969. 1969 was the same year Levi Eshkol made the second modern day decree to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem.
For anyone interested in this, the free online book in the OP is OK for the background. Dr. Christian Widener is a very nice guy. I think he is using the wrong dates, which he found carved into stone plaques, which are actually the completion of the construction, not the decree that starts the clock. So he is 2 years after me in 2027. I think it has to be happening now in 2025.
This is a link that will display in a PC browser window:
I agree that is a fine explanation. There's usually some of the historicists type interpretations which are just fine. In my view there is a bit more to the story to nuance out. It may not be for everyone. In my view the primary purpose for Daniel 9 is to announce the timing for the coming of Messiah, the coming of the Son of Man. The rest is window dressing to me.
Since He's coming twice, it's nice that they found a way to put multiple chances in there. Daniel 9 is the only place I know that sets out the detailed timing for the Arrival of the Lord. Let me find the 7, and the 62 weeks, and I, like the three wise men, will know when to be looking for His star in the East.
Peaceful Sabbath.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
That sounds like you don't think God can see the future. There could not be prophetic visions at all if that were true. One of the main reasons why people believed in God is because He told them of future things that would happen along with displaying His power and glory. Might as well throw out sovereignty and eternal security and promises made ... because some things just don't enter into the mind of God that will just throw off His plan ad He'll have to go back to the drawing board and rewrite it ... billions of times?
Newton considered himself a theologian as well as a scientist. But he was not a Trinitarian, which when I hear that, red flags go up. Not being baptized by the HOLY SPIRIT means he lacked discernment. Try to get into any theological discussion with a non-Trinitarian and you'll bump into many walls, a disconnect; for ti me theybhave a superficial understanding of scripture - no depth ... lean on their own understanding. I would not even rely on any theologian who lived 500 years ago. We know and understand so much more now than they did. Heck, the Protestant reformation was just getting started and Luther's 95 Thesis really only focused on the selling of indulgences.
We can and will disagree - that's okay. I wouldn't expect you to get nasty like some of these Amillennials.
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