John 1:1 and Jesus’ Sonship in Adoptionist thought

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Wick Stick

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Yes, either that, or those who rendered the original "Matthew" Hebrew text into Greek did so, (Jerome made the claim, and one other, but I cannot remember the other off hand).
I doubt that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. Aramaic is a distinct possibility. That's why I checked the Peshitta.

In this section of Matthew in particular, it's clear that the author is working from the Greek version of Isaiah. You can tell because the Hebrew of this verse in Isaiah says that a 'veiled woman' will conceive and give birth, while the LXX says that it's a παρθένος (virgin). Matthew (or his editor) takes this virginity literally, agreeing with the LXX in ignorance of the Hebrew meaning.

In Isaiah, the "veiled woman" is a woman who is dedicated to the service of the temple, weaving the curtains there. "Veiled woman" is a play on words, since it (a) indicates her unmarried status, and (b) her job was literally to make veils.

But it's clear in Isaiah that after the prophet impregnates her, she is neither a virgin nor a veiled woman. The text later refers to her as "prophetess," which is another play on words, since (a) her husband is the prophet, and (b) this Hebrew word is used to refer to temple prostitutes. Yikes
Another clue in these types of passages are words based on tikto, (G5088), which is more for plant-life generating or producing, matching up with words that mean things like stump, branch, root, stalk, twig, etc., (tzemach, netzer, etc.,). In the Isaiah passage you've quoted notice τέξεται, that is a form of tikto.

Mickelson's
G5088 τίκτω tikto (tiyk'-tō) v.
τέκω teko (te'-kō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
to produce, to bring forth (from seed, as a mother, a plant, the earth, etc.).
{literally or figuratively}
[a strengthened form of a primary teko tek'-o “to comb wool” (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail
Trees and branches and shoots are a whole extended metaphor referring to kings and especially The King. :)
Those who rendered the LXX were most likely not reading the Isaiah 7:14 text and thinking of a literal-physical virgin birth, surely they knew better than that: it's speaking of supernal and spiritual things which are nearly always inward.
The Greek translation isn't altogether wrong... the women dedicated to the temple took vows of chastity, as in the story of Jephthah's daughter... similar to the pagan Vestal virgins.

The scandal of Isaiah is that he impregnated a woman with a vow of chastity... at God's instruction. That's quite the attention grabber!
The entry appears to be pertaining to the equivalent word for Hebrew beten, the belly, (H990 בֶּטֶן beten (beh'-ten). At the top, the first entry says "to grow a belly", (which probably speaks of the belly swelling), and in the block script the letters are the same as for the Hebrew word.

:Thumbsup:
That word has a metaphorical meaning, too...

John 7:38 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
 

Wick Stick

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It can be understood either way but remember that David is said to be a man after the Fathers' own heart, (repeated in Acts 13:22), so in that sense David had a particular mold, a particular genos, a pattern or type of which he was by his nature, and which was sought for by the Father: that mold or genos is the Son, imo.
Have you ever looked at the controversy of David being anointed king?

There are numerous places where David is described as 'ruddy,' which turns out NOT to be a compliment, but rather a veiled accusation that his ancestors were perhaps from Edom (literally means "red"). There is also the odd fact of David's coronation as king of Judah being held in the city of Hebron... which is not a city of Judah. :IDK:

The Bible also spends quite a bit of space defending David's legitimacy. The whole book of Ruth is essentially an apology for the fact that David had a 'Moabite woman' as an ancestor.

Sorry for the off-topic
 
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dak

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I doubt that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. Aramaic is a distinct possibility. That's why I checked the Peshitta.

In this section of Matthew in particular, it's clear that the author is working from the Greek version of Isaiah. You can tell because the Hebrew of this verse in Isaiah says that a 'veiled woman' will conceive and give birth, while the LXX says that it's a παρθένος (virgin). Matthew (or his editor) takes this virginity literally, agreeing with the LXX in ignorance of the Hebrew meaning.

In Isaiah, the "veiled woman" is a woman who is dedicated to the service of the temple, weaving the curtains there. "Veiled woman" is a play on words, since it (a) indicates her unmarried status, and (b) her job was literally to make veils.

But it's clear in Isaiah that after the prophet impregnates her, she is neither a virgin nor a veiled woman. The text later refers to her as "prophetess," which is another play on words, since (a) her husband is the prophet, and (b) this Hebrew word is used to refer to temple prostitutes. Yikes

Trees and branches and shoots are a whole extended metaphor referring to kings and especially The King. :)

The Greek translation isn't altogether wrong... the women dedicated to the temple took vows of chastity, as in the story of Jephthah's daughter... similar to the pagan Vestal virgins.

The scandal of Isaiah is that he impregnated a woman with a vow of chastity... at God's instruction. That's quite the attention grabber!

Interesting and informative.

That word has a metaphorical meaning, too...

John 7:38 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Here we have koilia, (G2836), a cavity, which is also used in the birth narratives, it is typically used for the abdomen or stomach, or sometimes the womb is intended, (so they say), and it is figuratively used for the heart in the sense of the cavity containing the heart, the chest cavity. In that sense it would be like me`eh, (H4578 מֵעֶה), see for example Gen 15:4.

As for John 7:38 it no doubt speaks of the chest cavity which is also likened to a cistern, (Jer 2:13, they have hewn of themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water). Again, internal, within: their cisterns which they had hewn of/from themselves were their own chest cavities that were broken for not being able to hold-retain the living waters of the Word of the Father.
 

dak

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Is that type before or after David's adoption? I'd assume post-adoption

I don't think afterwards because the statement comes even while Saul/Sha'ul is still king.

1 Samuel 13:13-14 KJV
13 And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.
14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee.

There may be another similar statement but I cannot remember and cannot find it.
 

dak

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Have you ever looked at the controversy of David being anointed king?

There are numerous places where David is described as 'ruddy,' which turns out NOT to be a compliment, but rather a veiled accusation that his ancestors were perhaps from Edom (literally means "red"). There is also the odd fact of David's coronation as king of Judah being held in the city of Hebron... which is not a city of Judah. :IDK:

The Bible also spends quite a bit of space defending David's legitimacy. The whole book of Ruth is essentially an apology for the fact that David had a 'Moabite woman' as an ancestor.

Sorry for the off-topic

That isn't really off topic at all.

1 Samuel 16:11-13 KJV
11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.
12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

The above underlined was the key sign for Yohanne the Immerser to be watching for:

John 1:30-33 ASV
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man who is become before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not; but that he should be made manifest to Israel, for this cause came I baptizing in water.
32 And John bare witness, saying, I have beheld the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven; and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize in water, he said unto me, Upon whomsoever thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and abiding upon him, the same is he that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit.

These things therefore beg the question: when did king David actually hear the decree of Psalm 2:7? We know that this is a Psalm of David because the first two verses are quoted in Acts 4:25-26 and the passage attributes the Psalm to king David.

:IDK:

Hmmm....... It's only the second Psalm: must be pretty old, huh? Perhaps from right around the time Samuel the Prophet anointed David as king, (1Sam 16:13)?
 

Hiddenthings

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You started with an assertion for which you offered not an ounce of evidence or proof. How many pages do you propose it will take for you to actually prove that Psalm 21:4 is not speaking of David and instead speaking of your version of "Christ"?
I can see Psalm 21:4 is a challenge for you.

You offered no understanding of inherence and failed to connect Psalm 21:4 with the Lords words in John 5:26

“For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son also to have life in himself”

I’m building upon the clear foundation laid in Psalm 21:4, while you seem to be attempting to reinterpret the plain words of both David and Jesus. While you’re off in the corner preoccupied with dissecting the Greek text, I’m drawing attention to the very heart of the Master’s own understanding concerning the source of Life, and what that Life truly meant to the Son of God.

Your dilemma, which you’ve sidestepped is this: how can a pre-existent Christ seek life if, as you claim, it was already in his possession?

No more word games dak - answer the question!
 

Hiddenthings

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In the beginning Elohim cuts down the heavens and the earth, and the earth becomes wasted and empty, and darkness upon the face of the deep, and Ruach Elohim is brooding over the face of the waters: [like a Dove]

Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Ι̅Η haven been immersed went up straightway out of the water: and behold, the heavens were opened unto him, and he beheld Ruach Elohim descending as a dove, and coming upon him:
17 And lo, a voice from the heavens, saying [to him], This is My Son, the beloved, with whom I approve.

Again, Ruach Elohim is the Dove, the Son, the Logos Word of the Father, and the Spirit of the Father because testimony is spirit, and the Testimony of the Anointed One is Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), and therefore He it is who speaks through the Anointed One / Chosen One in the Gospel accounts.

Luke 13:34
34 O Yerushalem, Yerushalem, who slays the Prophets and stones those that are sent to her! how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen [of the doves] gathers her own brood under her wings, and you would not!

The highlighted above is a reference to Genesis 1:2.
Where exactly does this prove the pre-existence of Christ? In the beginning, the Ruach of God, His power, was brooding over the face of the waters. Are you suggesting this was Christ? If this is the foundation of your argument, then we’re in for a very long and arduous discussion!
 

Hiddenthings

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@dak

David wrote, He (Jesus) asked life of You (God), and You (God) gave it to him, length of days forever and ever (Psalm 21:4).

Jesus affirmed, “The Father has granted the Son to have life in Himself” (John 5:26).

Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35) and, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (for Life) except through me (John 14:6).

“I live because of the Father” (John 6:57), and again, “As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself” (John 5:26).

The problem with your understanding is it does not align with David's, Christs or Paul's teaching!

The true apostolic understanding is rooted in what Christ was and what he became. Through His death and resurrection, he was declared to be the Son of God with power, when God raised him from the dead and made him immortal and eternal.

This reality would be impossible for one who was already in possession of LIFE.
 

Hiddenthings

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These things therefore beg the question: when did king David actually hear the decree of Psalm 2:7? We know that this is a Psalm of David because the first two verses are quoted in Acts 4:25-26 and the passage attributes the Psalm to king David.
Applied in Heb 1:5 to Christ when he was glorified to be made a high priest; so "today" = resurrection, not birth. Cp also Heb 5:5; Rom 1:3,4; Isa 55:3; Act 13:33,34.

A truth which feeds into Christs own words about him receiving Life from God.

Psalms 2:7“I will tell of the decree.”

This phrase echoes the language used for declaring the covenant (see Psalm 50:16). The new covenant was proclaimed through the death (v. 6) and resurrection of the Son of God. Here, we hear him, as it were, publicly announcing that new covenant.

“Yahweh said to Me, ‘You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.’”

This statement is applied in various ways throughout the New Testament, particularly in connection with the resurrection of the Lord Jesus (see Acts 13:33; Romans 1:4). This fits well with the context of verse 6, which points to his death.

However, there is also an immediate, historical application to Hezekiah in Jerusalem. The same phrase “this day” (or “today”) appears in Isaiah 37:3, where Hezekiah laments that “the children have come to the birth, but there is no strength to bring them forth.” Yahweh, unlike Hezekiah, had the strength to bring it about.

At that time, the righteous remnant, the initial fulfillment of the “suffering servant” prophecies could have been brought forth after the destruction of Jerusalem’s enemies. If Hezekiah had “asked” (see. Ps. 2:8), he could have inherited the Gentiles. Instead, he entered into covenants with them, embracing their gods. As a result, the full potential of the promise was not realized, and the psalm found its ultimate fulfillment in the Lord Jesus.

Although there is no recorded moment in the Gospels when God explicitly spoke these words to Jesus, Hebrews 1:5 affirms that He did. This likely reflects a deeply personal and sacred exchange between Father and Son on the morning of the resurrection, a moment too intimate to have been recorded historically. @Wick Stick
 

dak

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I can see Psalm 21:4 is a challenge for you.

You offered no understanding of inherence and failed to connect Psalm 21:4 with the Lords words in John 5:26

“For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son also to have life in himself”

I’m building upon the clear foundation laid in Psalm 21:4, while you seem to be attempting to reinterpret the plain words of both David and Jesus. While you’re off in the corner preoccupied with dissecting the Greek text, I’m drawing attention to the very heart of the Master’s own understanding concerning the source of Life, and what that Life truly meant to the Son of God.

Your dilemma, which you’ve sidestepped is this: how can a pre-existent Christ seek life if, as you claim, it was already in his possession?

No more word games dak - answer the question!

The Son has life in himself because he is the Logos-Word of the Father, so of course the Father gave His Son to have Life in himself also. Did you never read the parable of the sower? The seed is the Logos, which is Living. I haven't said that there was a "pre-existent Christ", that's your game, and it's a stupid one. The Meshiah, ("the Christ"), was and is a man who did not exist before birth.
 
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Hiddenthings

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The Son has life in himself because he is the Logos-Word of the Father, so of course the Father gave His Son to have Life in himself also. Did you never read the parable of the sower? The seed is the Logos, which is Living. I haven't said that there was a "pre-existent Christ", that's your game, and it's a stupid one. The Meshiah, ("the Christ"), was and is a man who did not exist before birth.
Do you actually understand the meaning of the word “granted”?

The Logos was breathed into the Son, it wasn’t something he inherently possessed from the beginning. Come on, Dak… you’re now suggesting that the seed was never sown into Christ’s heart!

Luke 2:52 clearly says: “And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.”

I’ll wait for you to catch up.
 

dak

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Where exactly does this prove the pre-existence of Christ?

Again, I haven't said that there was a "pre-existent Christ", that's your game, and it's a stupid one: and it is equally as stupid to keep asking me to prove something I never said.

In the beginning, the Ruach of God, His power, was brooding over the face of the waters. Are you suggesting this was Christ?

Have you no reading comprehension whatsoever?
NO, I DID NOT SAY THAT RUACH ELOHIM IS CHRIST.
CHRIST WAS A MORTAL MAN WHO WAS BORN OF YOSEPH AND MARYAH.
 

soberxp

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500px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png


Note: The Son is not in the bosom of the Father in the image file. This is a tripartite, (three part), God: for one without the other two is not fully God, for the fourth God in the center is the only full God. The Son is not the Father, nor is he in the Father, and it is the same for all three lesser Gods to the fourth God in the center. Moreover the Father is reduced to equality with the Son by the image conception itself, and likewise all three outer perimeter Gods are equal with each other, and only when they are together as the fourth God in the center are they fully God. It's essentially God cut into three slices, tripartite.

Moreover, according to the Hebrew conception of the Father, the only way that one might come close in trying to explain the Father in picto-graphic form, (which is forbidden anyway), would be to imagine the white or clear background as extending in all directions from the point of the viewer forever, not just according to the square plane of the drawing, but in all directions, forever. The Scutum Fidei, (Trinity Shield), is the earliest known depiction attempt at describing the Trinity, and as we all know, it continues to be used to this day: but it came from the mindset the early Greco-Roman church.

The Hebrew conception of the Almighty Father:

Deuteronomy 10:14 KJV
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

1 Kings 8:27 KJV (2 Chr 6:18)
27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Psalm 139:5-8 KJV
5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, [Sheol] behold, thou art there.

The heavens and heaven of heavens cannot contain the Father, (Deut 10:14, 1Kngs 8:27).
There is nowhere a man can go where the Father is not there, (Psa 139:7-8).

John 1:1 (T/R, N/A, W/H, BYZ all agree)
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον Θ̅Ν και Θ̅C ην ο λογος

Here we have the preposition pros in an accusative case context, (ton Theon), and it changes slightly in meaning with a change in case.

1. forward to, i.e. toward
2. (genitive case) the side of, i.e. pertaining to
3. (dative case) by the side of, i.e. near to
4. (accusative case, usually) the place, time, occasion, or respect (which is the destination of the relation, i.e. whither or for which it is predicated)
Greek/4314

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4314: πρός
πρός, a preposition, equivalent to the epic προτί, from πρό and the adverbial suffix τί (cf. the German vor ... bin (Curtius, § 381)); it is joined
I. with the accusative, to, toward, Latinad, denoting direction toward a thing, or position and state looking toward a thing (Winer's Grammar, § 49 h., p. 404 (378)); it is used

Then Thayer gives a large list of ways and contexts in which pros is used, and the first is under the title of the number 1, (a numerical-alphabetical list), and we skip then over all of section 1, and come to section 2a, where our usage in both John 1:1 and 1John 1:2 are found, (same accusative context in both passages).

2. it is used of close proximity — the idea of direction, though not entirely lost, being more or less weakened;
a. answering to our at or by (German an); after verbs of fastening, adhering, moving (to): δεδέσθαι πρός τήν θύραν, Mark 11:4; προσκολλᾶσθαι, Mark 10:7 R G Tr (in marginal reading brackets); Ephesians 5:31 R G WH text; προσκόπτειν, Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:11; κεῖσθαι, equivalent to to be brought near to, Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9 ((cf. 2 Macc. 4:33)); τιθέναι, Acts 3:2; (Acts 4:37 Tdf. (others παρά)); add, βεβλησθαι, Luke 16:20; τά πρός τήν θύραν, the forecourt (see θύρα, a.), Mark 2:2; εἶναι πρός τήν θάλασσαν (properly, toward the sea (A. V. by the sea)), Mark 4:1; θερμαίνεσθαι πρός τό φῶς, turned to the light (R. V. in the light), Mark 14:54; καθῆσθαι πρός τό φῶς, Luke 22:56; πρός τό μνημεῖον, John 20:11 Rec.; cf. Fritzsche on Mark, p. 201f
b. equivalent to (Latinapud) with, with the accusative of a person, after verbs of remaining, dwelling, tarrying, etc. (which require one to be conceived of as always turned toward one), cf. Fritzsche as above: after εἶναι, Matthew 13:56; Mark 6:3; Mark 9:19; Mark 14:49; Luke 9:41; John 1:1; 1 John 1:2;

Understand both the meaning and the implications, and ask yourself why Thayer would say, "which require one to be conceived of as always turned toward one". Why on earth would he say one always turned toward one??? The reality should be a shock, yet most seem to have no qualms about it or try to explain it away when it is brought up, but this is subterfuge. Thayer is avoiding saying one toward another because there is no another in Trinity jargon, for 1+1+1=1, and if he said one turned toward another or one turned toward the other then the issue has more chance of becoming inflammatory in the Trinitarian mindset because it is so blatantly obvious what this means: two Gods, side by side, or next to each other, and even more specifically according to their own grammar rules, facing each other and outside of each other, and that's exactly what we see in the Trinity Shield image file herein above.
For us, what is God?
 

dak

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Do you actually understand the meaning of the word “granted”?

The Logos was breathed into the Son, it wasn’t something he inherently possessed from the beginning. Come on, Dak… you’re now suggesting that the seed was never sown into Christ’s heart!

Luke 2:52 clearly says: “And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.”

I’ll wait for you to catch up.

You're now just showing yourself a liar again.
 

Hiddenthings

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You're now just showing yourself a liar again.
So here’s what I’ve gathered from our brief discussion:
  1. You’re unable to address the matter of Christ’s inheritance, essentially denying any inheritance at all, since you believe he already possessed these things prior to his life, death, and resurrection.
  2. You do not acknowledge that only the Father possesses immortality and is the sole giver of eternal life.
  3. You fail to recognize that Christ received life from His Father when He was raised from the dead , which is the very foundation of the Gospel of God with Power (Life).
  4. You cannot explain how this same Life is available only through Christ (the new creation), and that access to God (Life) is only possible through him.
All these truths are made redundant with a pre-existent Christ.
 

soberxp

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It seems to me that most end up making their own God these days.
As for myself: the Father, YHWH Elohim Almighty of the Hebrews and of Yisrael.
And to know Him and His Word whom He has sent is life eternal.
So why you think Jesus Christ is God?
What is the basis in the Bible?
Why did Jesus Christ never call himself God?
Why did the Pharisees say that Jesus claimed to be God?
 

Hiddenthings

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It seems to me that most end up making their own God these days.
As for myself: the Father, YHWH Elohim Almighty of the Hebrews and of Yisrael.
And to know Him and His Word whom He has sent is life eternal.
Actually, the Apostles and Christ taught something different.

John 6:57 says: "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me."

And

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (for Life) except through me (John 14:6).


It's not sufficient to just mention the Word of God but the one who became the Word made flesh.

God's Logos is manifested in many ways and in many things but it's Living in Christ.
 

dak

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So why you think Jesus Christ is God?

Where have I said that? Where did you get "Jesus Christ" from? That consists of two nomina sacra, (sacred names), which were interpreted by the RCC a very long time ago. Why has no one ever questioned their interpretations of the nomina sacra? Why are you taught from traditions of men instead of being taught by Elohim in such critical matters?

What is the basis in the Bible?

There is no basis in the Bible because the name you are using does not exist in the Bible: it's an interpretation from the RCC.

Why did Jesus Christ never call himself God?

See the answers above.

Why did the Pharisees say that Jesus claimed to be God?

They did not say anything about someone named Jesus.
The Pharisees accused Ι̅Η of claiming to be Elohim, ("God").

Who is Ι̅Η ?? That is a nomen sacrum with two different meanings which can only be understood from the Father and His Word: and it is intentional, so as to make sure only those who love the Father and His Word His Son know exactly whom they worship in Spirit and in Truth.

You can start here below and follow the clues:

Matthew 12:14-21
14 But the Pharisees went out, and took counsel against him, how they might destroy him.
15 And Ι̅Η perceiving it withdrew from that place: and many followed him, and he healed them all.
16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the Prophet, saying,
18 Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry aloud; Neither shall any one hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, And smoking flax shall he not quench, Till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles hope.

The final line of the quote from Isaiah tells us the quote is taken from the Isaiah 42:1-4 LXX Old Greek Septuagint text. Therefore go to the source and see if you find the name "Jesus" anywhere therein. And do not believe that the Apostles hijacked scripture passages and repurposed them for their own doctrines and theology, no, they actually believed what the scriptures from before their time said: they where not cherry picking like fakers and frauds do today.

After you see and perceive what is true, all you really need to do is ask yourself why a vicious anti-Semite group of self proclaimed Popes, Bishops, and Cardinals would want to change the name of the Meshiah, the Chosen One. And by asking yourself this question in this manner you will have already answered the question.
 
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