THE LORD'S PRAYER: JESUS DIDN'T PRAY IT, SHOULD WE?

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amigo de christo

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The word rapture is not used but we can read about it
We cant read anywhere where Peter is said to be an apostle to the Gentiles
OH but we sure can read where him and paul preached the very same identical gospel to them all .
You just proved my point . I know the word rapture is not used , BUT YEAH we can see it .
SO TOO can we see that not all of Israel is EVEN OF ISRAEL .
BELIEVERS IN JESUS are OF ISRAEL . V ERY PLAIN my friend . only you dont seem to see it .
The children of the f lesh , whether jew or gentile ARE NOT the children of GOD .
the promise given unto the fathers , OH TIS ALL ABOUT JESUS THE CHRIST and FAITH IN HIM .
But you go and you learn what that even means .
 

amigo de christo

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I have nothing else to say that I have said and you wont acknowledge. The words of Christ are written by Paul
Almost . you mean to say OF paul , peter , james , jude , the author of hebrews , john and them all .
Not just paul but them all .
OH i just made a rhyme
right on time .
NOT jus paul
but of them ALL . but again you go and learn what that even means . BIBLE TIME
 

Doug

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The “wild olive tree” in Romans 11 is not the Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ. Instead, it refers to Gentiles who are part of the believing remnant, grafted into the good olive tree, which is believing Israel. God has always allowed Gentiles to be saved through Israel. When Israel stumbled by rejecting Jesus, salvation came to the Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy.

The branches that were broken off are unbelieving Israel, who rejected Jesus. The wild olive tree represents Gentiles who believed the gospel of the kingdom, accepted Jesus as Messiah, and were grafted into the promises God gave to Israel. They are part of the believing remnant.

The body of Christ, however, is made of both Jews and Gentiles and has no distinction of Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28). Therefore, it would not make sense to call the body of Christ the “wild olive tree.” The wild olive tree is specifically the Gentile new testament saints grafted among the faithful branches of Israel, who will share in the coming kingdom on earth. Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles is completed. At that time, Jesus will bring salvation to Israel and fulfill the covenant promises.

In short, the wild olive tree is the faithful Gentiles grafted into believing Israel, not the universal church or body of Christ. They are part of God’s plan to bring salvation to all Israel, along with the little flock of believers.
Wow we can agree on something
 
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amigo de christo

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The “wild olive tree” in Romans 11 is not the Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ. Instead, it refers to Gentiles who are part of the believing remnant, grafted into the good olive tree, which is believing Israel. God has always allowed Gentiles to be saved through Israel. When Israel stumbled by rejecting Jesus, salvation came to the Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy.

The branches that were broken off are unbelieving Israel, who rejected Jesus. The wild olive tree represents Gentiles who believed the gospel of the kingdom, accepted Jesus as Messiah, and were grafted into the promises God gave to Israel. They are part of the believing remnant.

The body of Christ, however, is made of both Jews and Gentiles and has no distinction of Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28). Therefore, it would not make sense to call the body of Christ the “wild olive tree.” The wild olive tree is specifically the Gentile new testament saints grafted among the faithful branches of Israel, who will share in the coming kingdom on earth. Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles is completed. At that time, Jesus will bring salvation to Israel and fulfill the covenant promises.

In short, the wild olive tree is the faithful Gentiles grafted into believing Israel, not the universal church or body of Christ. They are part of God’s plan to bring salvation to all Israel, along with the little flock of believers.
and what do you think paul meant when he said to provoke them unto jealousy .
And later he wrote and might save some . WE who believe are to also preach the gospel to them
and if one beleives t hey will be saved . NOW to the trenches my freind . TO the trenches .
 
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Muna

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You reply with an accusation. And the truth is what you and many still deny that Peter was appointed by GOD to preach to the gentiles the Moment Jesus asked them to proclaim Jesus words and all he did throughout the world. That was before ACTS and is factual.

No one is denying that Peter was appointed by God, that is untrue. I stated in my first post that Peter was an apostle BEFORE Paul, I don't know how many times I need to repeat that.

This quote from Isaiah preceeds both Peter and Paul

Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

And this also is factual

And I was not being mean when I stated I noticed your very subtle jab at Paul, because you do take jabs at Paul, we were both on threads where you go after him, and being aware of your stand against Paul its easier to pick up on it when you just sprinkle in that little extra spice into a post, but I am just sensitive to it, going back and forth with you.

Just one of your jabs at Paul the apostle

I reject all of paul's epistles, he cannot be trusted, said evil things of Christ that i will not repeat here demeaned the disciples as knowing nothing of Christ and boasted to be no lesses than the most eminent amongst the 12, wich is absurd, the 12 knew everyting about the lived with him for 3 years ans witnesset it all.

We are blind accepting Paul

People are so Blind or refuse to see.

All scripture trying to prove Paul is met with

Continue to make excuses for Paul like everyone else and reject the truth God and Jesus explained clearly and see where it leads you

You again

Paul received his mystery gospel in secret with NO witnesses except his OWN self witnessing 3 times , therefore INVALID, INVALID, INVALID!

Taken from just this thread between me and you

 
M

Muna

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Hi truly,

If we follow the order shown in Scripture, we see that Peter was actually the first to be called to the Gentiles, not Paul.

Before Paul even came into the story, Jesus had already chosen Peter and the other apostles to go to all nations. After His resurrection, Jesus said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19–20). Then later, Jesus spoke directly to Peter in a very personal way, saying three times, “Feed My lambs… Tend My sheep… Feed My sheep” (John 21:15–17). That was Jesus’ way of restoring Peter after his denial, but it was also a command that reached beyond Israel. Jesus had already spoken of this earlier when He said, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). Those “other sheep” were the Gentiles, and this meant Peter’s task to tend and feed Christ’s sheep included them too.

Lets return to your first paragraph since you felt was deceptive of me in cutting it off because I found it irrelevant (even though I did bring it up and adress it already) but since you keep placing emphasis on Peter (as opposed to Paul) in certain places, I thought I would point out that these things preceeding each of them.

He says here, I will give you pastors "according to mine heart",

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Same would be shown in Peter, "lovest thou me"? Pastors "according to mine heart"

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him,
Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The same would feed the sheep, "with knowledge and understanding"

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Paul now, " Wherefore I give you to understand"

1 Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Paul also tells them, to feed the sheep when he says, "feed the church of God"

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Just as Peter likewise tells them to feed his sheep, when he says, "feed the flock of God"

1 Peter 5:2-3 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, (Acts 20:28) not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, (2 Cr 4:5) but being ensamples to the flock.(Phil 3:17)

Peter also saying,

" being ensamples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3)

Now Paul

" ye have us for an ensample" (Phil 3:17)

Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample
 
M

Muna

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@LoveYeshua, I am just clarifying where I am coming from according to the scriptures, I am not trying to attack you personally, nor do I discount many of your contributions I actually agree with. I am not even angry with you, or trying to debate really. I just wanted to point out (at the first) in Acts that its written the Paul (who is also a Jew) as was Peter was calling to be a light to the Gentiles long before either of them were born, we see Jesus speak of the nations and in Psalms 2:8 after Jesus was raised from the dead, that ministry would begin sometime after they preached first in Jerusalem. Just as the nations being justified by faith is shown in the gospel being preached to Abraham beforehand which included the nations in Gal 3:18

Forgive me if I am coming off as angry with you, I am not.
 

LoveYeshua

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Lets return to your first paragraph since you felt was deceptive of me in cutting it off because I found it irrelevant (even though I did bring it up and adress it already) but since you keep placing emphasis on Peter (as opposed to Paul) in certain places, I thought I would point out that these things preceeding each of them.

He says here, I will give you pastors "according to mine heart",

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Same would be shown in Peter, "lovest thou me"? Pastors "according to mine heart"

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him,
Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The same would feed the sheep, "with knowledge and understanding"

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Paul now, " Wherefore I give you to understand"

1 Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Paul also tells them, to feed the sheep when he says, "feed the church of God"

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,
to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Just as Peter likewise tells them to feed his sheep, when he says, "feed the flock of God"

1 Peter 5:2-3 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, (Acts 20:28) not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, (2 Cr 4:5) but being ensamples to the flock.(Phil 3:17)

Peter also saying,

" being ensamples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3)

Now Paul

" ye have us for an ensample" (Phil 3:17)

Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample
truly, let it go, scripture shows Peter was first to preach to the gentiles. After Paul’s dramatic encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:3–6), he was baptized by Ananias and immediately began preaching, but notice where and to whom. The Bible says, “Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God” (Acts 9:20). Synagogues were Jewish places of worship, so at this point, Paul’s audience was still mainly Jews, not Gentiles.

Later in the same chapter, the Jews in Damascus plotted to kill him, and the disciples helped him escape (Acts 9:23–25). He then went to Jerusalem and tried to join the disciples there, but even they were afraid of him because of his past (Acts 9:26). Afterward, persecution broke out, and Paul (then called Saul) was sent away to Tarsus, his home city (Acts 9:30).

Years passed quietly after that. During this time, the gospel was spreading through Judea, Galilee, and Samaria — mainly through Peter, Philip, and others (Acts 9:31–43). We don’t hear from Paul again until Barnabas goes to find him in Tarsus and brings him to Antioch (Acts 11:25–26). This was at least 10 to 12 years after his conversion, based on historical and textual clues. Antioch had become a mixed church of Jews and Gentiles, and it was there that “the disciples were first called Christians” (Acts 11:26).

It was in Acts 13 that Paul’s specific mission to the Gentile nations truly began. The Holy Spirit spoke to them at Antioch, saying, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” (Acts 13:2). After fasting, praying, and laying hands on them, the church sent them out, and “they, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus” (Acts 13:4).

This was Paul’s first missionary journey, and it marked the official start of his work among the Gentiles. During this journey, in the city of Antioch in Pisidia, the Jews rejected Paul’s message, and Paul boldly declared, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (Acts 13:46).

So when we say it took years before Paul began his Gentile mission, Scripture supports that timeline clearly:

His calling was announced in Acts 9:15.​
He preached mainly to Jews in Acts 9:20.​
He spent years in Tarsus before being brought to Antioch (Acts 9:30; Acts 11:25–26).​
His first mission to Gentile nations began in Acts 13:2–4, over a decade later.​
Paul knew early what God had planned for him, but it took time, growth, and God’s perfect timing before that plan came to life. By the time he set out from Antioch in Acts 13, Peter had already opened the door to the Gentiles in Acts 10 through Cornelius. Paul then followed that same path, carrying the gospel even farther into the nations, fulfilling what God had spoken long before.

If you require More information I am certain you can find in a any reputable religious studies library a timeline of Paul's ministries. To me it is clear both were appointed to preach to the Gentiles and did what they were supposed to do in their appointed times, there is no need to discuss further.
 

LoveYeshua

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@LoveYeshua, I am just clarifying where I am coming from according to the scriptures, I am not trying to attack you personally, nor do I discount many of your contributions I actually agree with. I am not even angry with you, or trying to debate really. I just wanted to point out (at the first) in Acts that its written the Paul (who is also a Jew) as was Peter was calling to be a light to the Gentiles long before either of them were born, we see Jesus speak of the nations and in Psalms 2:8 after Jesus was raised from the dead, that ministry would begin sometime after they preached first in Jerusalem. Just as the nations being justified by faith is shown in the gospel being preached to Abraham beforehand which included the nations in Gal 3:18

Forgive me if I am coming off as angry with you, I am not.
it is ok I am not angry also do not worry, we seem to have a slight disagreement of no importance of who was first. No big deal, this is a discussion forum after all where we can exchange information and discuss scripture.
 
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Muna

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truly, let it go, scripture shows Peter was first to preach to the gentiles.

Again, I am not saying that Peter was not an apostle BEFORE Paul or the first to share the gospel with Cornelius (a Gentile who I have acknowledged) there, I am simply saying the Paul is shown before Peter (In Acts) getting the call to do so (as a chosen vessel unto the Lord to preach the gospel to the Gentiles) even before Peter gets his own head around it, and comes to an understanding of the same through the vision given him, that he is also supposed to be doing what Isaiah (which had spoken before them both) points out what they would be doing, inclusive of the remnant in Acts, of which both Peter and Paul are, the two being Jews (and Jesus tells us that salvation is of the Jews).

Faith in Jesus by the Gentiles is shown in Jesus first

Even though Jesus was just sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, this woman had great faith as is shown here

Matt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Same with this Roman centuriom

Luke 7:9 , I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

It would appear faith in Jesus among the Gentiles was occuring before the time they were sent out

The rest of the AI enhanced post I will look over and see if theres something relevant to respond to, but you keep adressing a strawman really.

I keep saying, Peter was an apostle FIRST, I even showed Peter preaching to Cornelius. What I wanted to show is that Paul in Acts being called and specifically referred to as a chosen vessel to the Gentiles, before Peter even understood that memo for himself, thats all. That salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) that both as Jews would be sent (Acts 28:28) and even before either were, we even see Gentiles having great faith not found in Israel (in the above) before the that time.
 

ProverbsInPink

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Divineness occurs when we dont rightly divide scripture and know what was for Israel and what is for us
I think you missed my prior observation.
Nothing in the teaching of Jesus are an either or proposal.
In other words,his teachings pertained to either the Jews or the Gentiles.

The teachings of Jesus are for everyone God calls to Jesus. Because those called are answering one call as I e people in His covenant if eternal life.
 

LoveYeshua

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Again, I am not saying that Peter was not an apostle BEFORE Paul or the first to share the gospel with Cornelius (a Gentile who I have acknowledged) there, I am simply saying the Paul is shown before Peter (In Acts) getting the call to do so (as a chosen vessel unto the Lord to preach the gospel to the Gentiles) even before Peter gets his own head around it, and comes to an understanding of the same through the vision given him, that he is also supposed to be doing what Isaiah (which had spoken before them both) points out what they would be doing, inclusive of the remnant in Acts, of which both Peter and Paul are, the two being Jews (and Jesus tells us that salvation is of the Jews).

Faith in Jesus by the Gentiles is shown in Jesus first

Even though Jesus was just sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, this woman had great faith as is shown here

Matt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Same with this Roman centuriom

Luke 7:9 , I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

It would appear faith in Jesus among the Gentiles was occuring before the time they were sent out

The rest of the AI enhanced post I will look over and see if theres something relevant to respond to, but you keep adressing a strawman really.

I keep saying, Peter was an apostle FIRST, I even showed Peter preaching to Cornelius. What I wanted to show is that Paul in Acts being called and specifically referred to as a chosen vessel to the Gentiles, before Peter even understood that memo for himself, thats all. That salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22) that both as Jews would be sent (Acts 28:28) and even before either were, we even see Gentiles having great faith not found in Israel (in the above) before the that time.
You said you were not angry, to me you clearly are, lets take a break.
 
M

Muna

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You said you were not angry, to me you clearly are, lets take a break.

I promise you I am not mad at you LoveYeshua, even though I might still bust on your use of AI in an attempt to steam roll me by it clfh
(does the laughy face help at all?) I don't always put an emoji face by my words which might make me appear as if I am angry, and probably because I do not always adress the person by name (as maybe I should). The Lord did convict me of not addressing you first (as I often forget to do that when entering into something that is on my mind and that is my bad. It's a habit, a bad one, that I need to change, because I can come off as being overly confrontational, I sincerely do not mean to come off that way. I will swipe off anything not to my point and try and zoom into what I am looking at, without explaining why I did that (as you pointed out). But I promise you that I have no hostility towards you (at all) its just in the back of my mind how YOU feel towards Paul, and if I have an opportunity to recconcile something concerning in in the context of what you might post, I do try and take it where something is a little clearer concerning it is all.

Forgive me if I am coming off as hostile toward you, I can be a little tongue n cheek sometimes and I should use an emoji which might better show my mood when I do that.

Just because we might disagree on a thing or two is not a justifiable reason to be contrary to you at every turn.

Please accept my apologies, I am sincerely not agry at you, or hate you, and I very much appreciate quite a few of your posts.
 

Doug

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YOU JUST WENT TO MY IGNORE LIST, SO DON'T BOTHER RESPONDING TO ME ANYMORE. AND ANY SLANDER YOU DO AGAINST ME AFTER THIS POST, MAY GOD REBUKE YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.
Fine but just to be clear I havent slandered you I only stated for you to consider the implications of you saying the conditional covenant of forgiveness given to Israel applies to us as well
 

amigo de christo

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Show me where Peter preaches all that Paul does please
there are things others also have shown you .
But you want to know what the problem is
Ye cannot show the blind . I cannot make one see .
I can tell them , i can show them , but they simply cannot see .
Every time , that i have seen one bring the truth to you
I have watched you NOT SEE , then twist and then say I DO SEE . that is not a good sign my freind .
You need to return to the bible FOR YOU .
 

amigo de christo

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Show me where Peter preaches all that Paul does please
all you need to do is read the bible . EVEN in acts we see both peter and paul
PREACHING THE IDENTICAL GOSPEL to both jews and gentiles .
YOU GO and see .
IT was JESUS , HIS RESSURECTION , THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON HIM to be saved .
to confess him by mouth .
And look at how they both preached the same identical gospel that paul would also later write to the church .
HIS death , HIS RESSURECTION , TO BELEIVE and TO confess HIM .
Same gospel . You go and start reading in acts
and you see . same gospel . and not only was it the same gospel they both preached
IT was the same gospel they both preached to every jew and gentile they preached too .
WE BEEN LIED TO FRIEND . only this sheep , thanks be to GOD for greater IS HE that is in me
than he that is in the world , DONT BUY LIES . ONLY TRUTH . now bible up friend . BIBLE UP .
 
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Doug

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Almost . you mean to say OF paul , peter , james , jude , the author of hebrews , john and them all .
Not just paul but them all .
OH i just made a rhyme
right on time .
NOT jus paul
but of them ALL . but again you go and learn what that even means . BIBLE TIME
Of course all scripture is from God we were talking about Paul catchy rhyme
 

Doug

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and what do you think paul meant when he said to provoke them unto jealousy .
The Gentiles who believed Peter in Acts 10 would provoke them to jealousy Israel was seeking righteousness by the law not faith