The Bible - Fiction, or non-fiction?

[St. SteVen]

Perhaps we all come to that fork in the road. God bless your journey.

Thank you.
I suppose it can be different things for different people.

For me, I had to decide whether I would follow the institutional church or the Spirit's leading on key doctrinal issues.
I've shared this before, but seems appropriate here.

We had a family situation. My sister-in-law informed my mother-in-law
that she couldn't believe in a God that would put people in hell.
Mom was pretty upset. She was afraid of losing a child to unbelief.
The church had taught her that those who succumb to unbelief will be lost for all eternity.
Mom was devastated. Understandably.

The family had been raised evangelical, as had I. Which left me with nothing to offer but the standard apologetics about hell.
This left me with a hollow feeling inside. My "biblical" defense did nothing to help the situation. Mom was still sobbing.
There was really nothing we could say to my sister-in-law to help the situation. I thought she was at least half right.

The hell doctrine bothered me too. Although the church was backing away from the hellfire and brimstone message...
It was still there. Now softened to "Eternal separation from God." (whatever that means)

I did some research to see if I could bolster my hell belief enough to hang onto it. Again, the empty rhetoric prevailed.
What was hell and why did God create it that way the church described it? Such pointless and sadistic horror.
What kind of a...? (sigh)

Then a forum friend whose biblical knowledge I trusted said that he didn't believe in a forever burning hell. Say what?
I responded by saying, "Tell me more." He directed me to a forum topic where Universalism was being discussed.
So, I did some research in that direction. My eyes were opened to something I had never seen before when I read this verse.
I had seen the verse before but never noticed the words, "not only for ours". Say what? That's where it began.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[Jack]

I see a difference between natural death and murder. (genocide)

So you're charging God with murder?

 

[St. SteVen]

So you're charging God with murder?

No. I'm suggesting that the Flood story is a myth.
Do you believe God would cause global genocide? (of course you do)

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[Jack]

No. I'm suggesting that the Flood story is a myth.

So you're CLEARLY saying the Christian Bible is "myth"! Do you want me to quote several Books in the Bible that prove the Genesis Flood is clearly literal?

Do you believe God would cause global genocide? (of course you do)

Who's gonna stop Him? You?

 

[St. SteVen]

So you're CLEARLY saying the Christian Bible is "myth"! Do you want me to quote several Books in the Bible that prove the Genesis Flood is clearly literal?

Are you claiming that myths can't be quoted?

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[Jack]

Are you claiming that myths can't be quoted?

Your bible may be a myth but not mine!

2 Kings 17:25 They did not fear the Lord so He sent lions to kill them.

 

[ProDeo]

I'm torn on that one.

Me too.

I think most Jewish people view it as myth.

I know a well verse orthodox Jew who considers Genesis 3 as a blessing, God given human kind a brain and free will, so you could be right.

And evolutionists, for sure.

That's an easy one once you see it. Eden was a supernatural place, the Laws of Physics did not apply, mankind living in the presence of the Lord, only fruits and vegetables available to eat, no flesh for dinner, because there was no death. When A&E rebelled they were expelled from Paradise, away from the presence of the Lord and landed on the natural evolved and hostile Earth where death ruled as a necessity, eat or be eaten as a necessity because without (for instance insect) death Earth would be an unbearable buzzing place within a couple of months.

Causes serious doctrinal issues though.

A saying from Corrie ten Boom, God from above sees the world as a weaving with beautiful landscapes, we only see the underside, the tangle of threads that make no sense.

I am pretty sure everybody will agree that once we are with the Lord there will be many big surprises, doctrines we hold that will perish.

The final testament is not revealed yet.

Deut 29:29 “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

In God we trust.

I think the questions are more important than the answers.

That is, the right questions.

Like Newton, why does an apple always falls down from a tree?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Thank you.
I suppose it can be different things for different people.

For me, I had to decide whether I would follow the institutional church or the Spirit's leading on key doctrinal issues.
I've shared this before, but seems appropriate here.

We had a family situation. My sister-in-law informed my mother-in-law
that she couldn't believe in a God that would put people in hell.
Mom was pretty upset. She was afraid of losing a child to unbelief.
The church had taught her that those who succumb to unbelief will be lost for all eternity.
Mom was devastated. Understandably.

The family had been raised evangelical, as had I. Which left me with nothing to offer but the standard apologetics about hell.
This left me with a hollow feeling inside. My "biblical" defense did nothing to help the situation. Mom was still sobbing.
There was really nothing we could say to my sister-in-law to help the situation. I thought she was at least half right.

The hell doctrine bothered me too. Although the church was backing away from the hellfire and brimstone message...
It was still there. Now softened to "Eternal separation from God." (whatever that means)

I did some research to see if I could bolster my hell belief enough to hang onto it. Again, the empty rhetoric prevailed.
What was hell and why did God create it that way the church described it? Such pointless and sadistic horror.
What kind of a...? (sigh)

Then a forum friend whose biblical knowledge I trusted said that he didn't believe in a forever burning hell. Say what?
I responded by saying, "Tell me more." He directed me to a forum topic where Universalism was being discussed.
So, I did some research in that direction. My eyes were opened to something I had never seen before when I read this verse.
I had seen the verse before but never noticed the words, "not only for ours". Say what? That's where it began.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

I think that's a great reference many of us might miss.
I like this one too.
1 Timothy 4:9-10
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance.That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[Jack]

Are you claiming that myths can't be quoted?

What is your Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood is myth?

2 Peter 2:4-8
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)--

Absolutely literal!

 

[Jack]

No. I'm suggesting that the Flood story is a myth.

What is your Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood is myth?

Genesis 7:17-24
17 Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. 24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

 

[St. SteVen]

What is your Biblical proof that the Genesis Flood is myth?

The flood story itself. And science.

From online search:
Mount Ararat is traditionally considered the resting place of Noah's Ark,
as mentioned in the Bible. However, many searches for the Ark have not yielded
conclusive evidence, and some experts regard these efforts as pseudoscience.

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[Jack]

The flood story itself. And science.

I just quoted a perfectly clear Bible Flood account. lol

You're a scientist now?

Isaiah 54:9 I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth,

So you have zero Bible to back your Flood myth accusation!

 

[St. SteVen]

I just quoted a perfectly clear Bible Flood account. lol

I'll have to ask you again: Can myths not be quoted?

Here's a Hebrew myth quoted by the Apostle.
The original rolling stone. (not biblical)

1 Corinthians 10:3-5 NIV
They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink;
for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them,
and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them;
their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

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[Jack]

I'll have to ask you again: Can myths not be quoted?

So the promises for your salvation are myths? Or do you just pick the parts you like.

Here's a Hebrew myth quoted by the Apostle.
The original rolling stone. (not biblical)

1 Corinthians 10:3-5 NIV
They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink;
for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them,
and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them;
their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

We are talking about the Genesis Flood. Why are you trying to change the subject?

Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[St. SteVen]

So the promises for your salvation are myths? Or do you just pick the parts you like.

No.
I take a realistic view. The whole book doesn't have to be taken as literal.
God's character would not have allowed Him to commit global genocide.

We are talking about the Genesis Flood.

Here's an interesting article on the subject.

Noah’s Ark: Debunking the Myth of Literal History

Explore why Noah’s Ark cannot be treated as literal history, drawing on archaeology, ancient Near Eastern texts, and scientific evidence to uncover the real origins of the story.

brewminate.com

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[Jack]

No.
I take a realistic view. The whole book doesn't have to be taken as literal.

Don't you get tired of attacking the Bible?

God's character would not have allowed Him to commit global genocide.

God's not gonna ask your permission stevie. You will soon learn.

Here's an interesting article on the subject.

Noah’s Ark: Debunking the Myth of Literal History

Explore why Noah’s Ark cannot be treated as literal history, drawing on archaeology, ancient Near Eastern texts, and scientific evidence to uncover the real origins of the story.

brewminate.com

And of course you think it backs you up. lol

Luke 17:26-27
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Your opinions don't overrule God stevie. Learn before it's too late!

 

[Jericho]

Should we assume that atheists are wrong about everything?
Or conversely, that we are right about everything?

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So, tell me, do you think their argument about this is true? What is your honest take on the biblical narrative of the flood? Do you believe it actually happened?

 

[Behold]

For me, I had to decide whether I would follow the institutional church or the Spirit's leading on key doctrinal issues.

The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe or teach a false and Satanic Gospel that literally teaches that a sinner does not have to be forgiven by God and born again on this earth, before they die, if they are to go to Heaven.
So, the "spirit" that led you to a false and cursed Gospel... is not the Holy Spirit. @St. SteVen

 

[St. SteVen]

The Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to believe or teach a false and Satanic Gospel that literally teaches that a sinner does not have to be forgiven by God and born again on this earth, before they die, if they are to go to Heaven.
So, the "spirit" that led you to a false and cursed Gospel... is not the Holy Spirit. @St. SteVen

Were those in the early church not led by the Holy Spirit?

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor:
"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

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[Behold]

Were those in the early church not led by the Holy Spirit?

You teach a Gospel that contradicts God's Salvation.
God's Salvaiton is that you must received Christ on Earth by FAITH, and be forgiven your sin, and be born again........if you are to go to Heaven.

@St. SteVen , your Satanic gospel of "UNIVERSALISM" teaches that noone has to become a Christian before they die.. noone has to be forgiven their sin and be born again before they die..... and they still quality for heaven.

So, no NT Apostle taught your Satanic gospel, and if you can find MaryCult or similear Heretic "church fathers" that did teach your false gospel, then you've only found their deception., which you keep proving.