I will raise them on the last day.

[David in NJ]

What is that exactly?

Christ formed in you?

The first thing we should do to unravel the Mystery is to begin where it BEGINS = Genesis

And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

[David in NJ]

M

Hebrews 11….tells us what Paul said about all those OT persons of faith….

“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.“
So, through his faith, as we see recorded in the Bible, he still speaks to us. Did Abel live on after death…no scripture says so. He “speaks” today only metaphorically.

“By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God.“
Enoch was “taken” so as not to “see“ death….but it didn’t mean that he didn’t die…..only that before he died he knew he had pleased God. If he lived on after death, what would be the point of that statement?

“By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.“

In order to inherit something, or to be an heir, something has to take place in the future for you to gain the inheritance. As it says in the scripture quoted below….
“These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar”…

“By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.”

Again, there is a future inheritance. He was looking forward to it….the future Kingdom of God….the one he knew where Messiah would be king.

“These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward.“

What was the reward? How did Moses know about the Christ? Jews knew Messiah was coming….and he would gain his reward….but in the future. He had no belief in life after death until the return of the one who had not yet arrived.

“And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.” (ESV)

None of the ones Paul mentioned above, received what was promised…something better was coming….and these ones would not receive the promises apart from the apostles. And the apostles and others who were chosen for a role in heaven, (the elect) would not receive their promised reward until Christ returned.

1 Thess 4:13-17….
“But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (ESV)

All was yet future.
So in answer to your question…“WHERE DID THEY GO”? The answer is…..nowhere. All those of faith mentioned in OT Scripture went to “sheol”….the common grave of all mankind….the place they expected to “sleep”, as Paul said above…and as Jesus said his friend Lazarus was. (John 11:11-14)

Hello Aunty,

When our physical body dies it returns to the dust from which it was formed.

Our soul/spirit continues in full awareness, either in darkness or in LIFE.

 

[Truth7t7]

The following is a link to cross refs of Zechariah 14:16. I'm not seeing anything in Isaiah 4 listed.

Zechariah 14:16 Cross References: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

biblehub.com

-------
And here is a link to another cross ref site. I'm not seeing anything in Isaiah 4 listed there either.

Zechariah 14:16 Cross References

www.bibleapps.com

-------------

Nor on this site either

Zechariah 14:16 Bible Cross References | Connecting Verses Across Scripture - CEVDCI

42 Cross References - Zechariah 14:16 Bible Cross References | Connecting Verses Across Scripture - Contemporary English Version Interconfessional Edition

www.bibliatodo.com

Non-Response

 

[jeffweeder]

@Marty fox and @jeffweeder

There is a very BEAUTIFUL ARRANGEMENT that GOD is making for us in the 1,000 Year Reign of CHRIST whereby we are encouraged to be a part of it.

That applies to the here and now as the Gospel goes global.
ONLY through grace, repentance and persistence in the faith will one be found worthy of what happens when Jesus comes in complete vengeance for all who have ever beleived.


2Thess 1
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of [c]everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

 

[Marty fox]

@Marty fox and @jeffweeder

There is a very BEAUTIFUL ARRANGEMENT that GOD is making for us in the 1,000 Year Reign of CHRIST whereby we are encouraged to be a part of it.

Yes and we are apart of it now

 

[Marty fox]

No one knows the day or hour.

God has given us many events that must occur before the Day of the Lord arrives = Matt ch24, 2 Thess , Revelation

I agree no one knows so then how are they there waiting for Jesus?

 

[Marty fox]

Exactly.
I find the idea of saved man regaining perfection over a thousand year period absolutely ludicrous in the light of Jesus Christs finished work.
It shows you how little they understand the revelation that is Jesus Christ.

Yes agreed and then it all falls apart at the end so it would seams a failed reign then.

Also if everyone unsaved dies at the end of Revelation 19 who then is left for saints to reign over eh?

 

[soberxp]

raise them a thousand years before the last day.

Who and why said raise them a thousand years before the last day?

 

[jeffweeder]

I agree no one knows so then how are they there waiting for Jesus?

Waiting for the blessed hope of every true Christian perhaps.


Titus 2
11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age,

13 awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who [willingly] gave Himself [to be crucified] on our behalf to redeem us and purchase our freedom from all wickedness, and to purify for Himself a chosen and very special people to be His own possession, who are enthusiastic for doing what is good.

 

[soberxp]

No one knows the day or hour.

If I'm a witness, I don't know the time? Maybe the time I know is not God's time, so I never know.

 

[Marty fox]

But this is only because you currently cannot SEE the BEAUTY of what God has planned for those who love Him.
@Marty fox

We are seeing it in our lives now

 

[Marty fox]

@Marty fox and @jeffweeder

There is a very BEAUTIFUL ARRANGEMENT that GOD is making for us in the 1,000 Year Reign of CHRIST whereby we are encouraged to be a part of it.

This is a current reality

Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

 

[Marty fox]

Waiting for the blessed hope of every true Christian perhaps.


Titus 2
11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age,

13 awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who [willingly] gave Himself [to be crucified] on our behalf to redeem us and purchase our freedom from all wickedness, and to purify for Himself a chosen and very special people to be His own possession, who are enthusiastic for doing what is good.

It’s because the end of Chapter 19 isn’t a literal battle but symbolic for Jesus defeating all of His enemies since the first advent with the sword of His mouth His word which is all powerful and either saves or condemns

 

[Marty fox]

Who and why said raise them a thousand years before the last day?

No one that’s the point Jesus said only on the last day thanks for your question

 

[soberxp]

No one that’s the point Jesus said only on the last day

Okay

 

[Marty fox]

Okay

Thanks I added to the post

 

[jeffweeder]

Yes agreed and then it all falls apart at the end so it would seams a failed reign then.

Absolutely.
Not an honorable start for the glorified anointed people of God. Never gonna happen.

Also if everyone unsaved dies at the end of Revelation 19 who then is left for saints to reign over eh?

All unbelievers will have this mark of the beast at that point right.


They are doomed at that point, so the idea of another 1000 years (of hope) serves no purpose at all.

rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice,

“Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ).

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus.

 

[Marty fox]

Absolutely.
Not an honorable start for the glorified anointed people of God. Never gonna happen.

All unbelievers will have this mark of the beast at that point right.


They are doomed at that point, so the idea of another 1000 years (of hope) serves no purpose at all.

rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice,

“Whoever worships the beast and his image and receives the mark [of the beast] on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he too will [have to] drink of the wine of the wrath of God, mixed undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone (flaming sulfur) in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb (Christ).

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is [encouragement for] the steadfast endurance of the saints (God’s people), those who habitually keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus.

I do see the mark in the past myself

It nice to see you posting again my friend

 

[Aunty Jane]

Then what is the battle at the end of the thousand years? Wouldn’t that be a different day Of the Lord?

That is actually not a battle, as much as a reprisal issued at the end of the thousand years of decision making for the human race, now brought to perfection of mind, body and spirit. Brought into the same condition as Adam was at his creation (sin free).

Sin explains the necessity of priests in Israel. The elect will be priests. (Rev 20:6)

Satan and his cronies are released from their prison to test perfected mankind for the last time.
For many of the resurrected ones, it will be the first time that their faith is tested.....(Rev 20:1-3)

You said that they will have a thousand years to regain the perfection that Adam lost but that obviously doesn’t happen the thousand years ends in a big failed mess according to chapter 20:8 doesn’t it?

No....it ends exactly as God purposed that it would. Every human on earth will have received a test of their faith , and their true personality...to demonstrate to God who they choose to be, with the life and freedom of choice he gave them.
Free will was a gift, but abusing it turned it into a curse. God wants us to choose him of our own free will, but the devil made the accusation that no one would serve God unless he gave them everything they desired....Satan basically said that if the going got tough, that everyone would abandon him. (Read Job 1 & 2)

Was that true? God allowed the devil to rule those who chose to obey him....the greatest object lesson mankind will ever have.

Only those who pass that final test will have everlasting life granted to them......for the majority, that will be everlasting life on earth where we were created to live at the outset. For those conquered by Satan again, fire comes down from heaven to devour them (Rev 20:7-9)....like Sodom and Gomorrah all over again. Not a failed mess at all.

There is also no mention of Armageddon in chapter 19 either it’s a completely different event than chapter 16.

Armageddon is the war to end all wars....it’s God’s final battle with the devil over the sinful human race that he helped to create. Adam and Eve abused their free will...but the devil did it first.
Tests of faith with sinful humans requires more strength of character than Adam had as a sinless man. All the devil had to do was divide his loyalties between His God and his wife....and he was caught in the devil’s trap.

The final test is for those who are no longer sinful....no hooks, no ungodly desires to flame....just a final test of loyalty....and the elimination of all who fail that test.

Also if no one knows when the second coming is then how are the beast and his armies gathered for the battle?

I believe that Christ is already “present” and has been for some time, as “the time of the end” is a time of “separation of the sheep from the goats”. The time of the end when Jesus was to return, was to be identified by a series of monumental world events outlined in Matt 24:3-14. This was the “sign of his presence” (parousia) but his “coming” as judge, is a different event, at the end of those days.

This is the time when we get to show God which category we belong to...by the time of his appearance as judge of all mankind, all people will already have made their decision as to who they will serve...the true God....or the god of this world.

Do you see how your view makes no sense?

It makes perfect sense to me.....and to about 9 million of my spiritual brothers and sisters all over the world.
Like I said...the big picture is what makes sense....Genesis to Revelation....it’s one story, with one author, and it means that all must share one truth. (1 Cor 1:10)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hello Aunty,

When our physical body dies it returns to the dust from which it was formed.

First you have to know what the difference is between the “soul” and the “spirit”. They are not one and the same thing.

Our soul/spirit continues in full awareness, either in darkness or in LIFE.

Solomon argues with you...

“But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.” (ESV)

Sheol is the grave. A place where the dead know nothing...they cannot “love or hate” and there is “no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in the grave”. It says nothing about a “soul” being a ‘disembodied spirit’....
Genesis says that Adam “became a soul” when God started him breathing. A soul in the Bible is a living, breathing, creature, both animals and humans. We actually have no advantage over the animals in death. (Eccl 3:19-20)

Did you know that the words, “immortal soul” are not found in the Bible at all? Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, because their Scripture never mentioned it.

David also spoke of Sheol as a place of “silence”. (Psalm 115:17)

Who wants us to believe that we don’t really die? Wasn’t that the devil’s first lie?