Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.

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Chrysostomos

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You were talking specifically to me about wanting to "punch someone in the face"......so, i told you that this is easy for you to say, "hiding behind your laptop screen".
Let's clear this mess up.
You originally said:
Christianity does not promote Hell as a Threat.
My response was this exact post, word for word:
It seems to me that sometimes Christians like you want to come across as better than you actually are.​
Have you never had a moment where you think, "Man, I’d love to punch that jerk in the face, but..."?​
I bet you have, if you’re a normal person.​
The thing is, the reason you don’t actually punch the guy isn’t always, "Oh, I just love people so much."​
If that’s always your mindset, then my apologies—maybe you’re the reincarnation of Buddha.​
I’ve had thoughts like, "I’d punch that jerk, but his buddies would probably jump me, and I’d be in trouble," or "I’d punch that jerk, but I don’t want to deal with the cops afterward."​
The carrot-and-stick approach—heaven as the reward, hell as the consequence—has been a working model forever.​
It’s not the whole story of Christianity, but it’s a real part of it, just like in any society that uses rewards and punishments to guide behavior. No shame in admitting it’s effective.​

I wasn’t thinking about you as a person. Not even a little. I was replying to your idea—that Christianity doesn’t use hell as a motivator. The punch example? Just a real-life parallel to show how people (yes, including Christians) are motivated by consequences, not just pure love. It was never about you personally. I didn’t know your name, your face, your life. You were just a guy who posted something I disagreed with.

Then you came back with:
Thats easy for you to imply in my direction , when you are hiding behind your laptop, isn't it... @Chrysostomos
That’s when it went off the rails. You took a general analogy about human behavior and twisted it into a personal threat. That’s not just a misunderstanding—that’s straight-up ego and victim-playing.
You made yourself the center of a story that had nothing to do with you. I wasn’t “implying” anything in your direction. I wasn’t hiding. I was just making a point in a forum discussion.

Look, man—nobody’s out to get you. Nobody’s dreaming of fighting you. This whole thing? It’s in your head. Let it go.
 
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soberxp

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Let's clear this mess up.
You originally said:

My response was this exact post, word for word:
It seems to me that sometimes Christians like you want to come across as better than you actually are.​
Have you never had a moment where you think, "Man, I’d love to punch that jerk in the face, but..."?​
I bet you have, if you’re a normal person.​
The thing is, the reason you don’t actually punch the guy isn’t always, "Oh, I just love people so much."​
If that’s always your mindset, then my apologies—maybe you’re the reincarnation of Buddha.​
I’ve had thoughts like, "I’d punch that jerk, but his buddies would probably jump me, and I’d be in trouble," or "I’d punch that jerk, but I don’t want to deal with the cops afterward."​
The carrot-and-stick approach—heaven as the reward, hell as the consequence—has been a working model forever.​
It’s not the whole story of Christianity, but it’s a real part of it, just like in any society that uses rewards and punishments to guide behavior. No shame in admitting it’s effective.​

I wasn’t thinking about you as a person. Not even a little. I was replying to your idea—that Christianity doesn’t use hell as a motivator. The punch example? Just a real-life parallel to show how people (yes, including Christians) are motivated by consequences, not just pure love. It was never about you personally. I didn’t know your name, your face, your life. You were just a guy who posted something I disagreed with.

Then you came back with:

That’s when it went off the rails. You took a general analogy about human behavior and twisted it into a personal threat. That’s not just a misunderstanding—that’s straight-up ego and victim-playing.
You made yourself the center of a story that had nothing to do with you. I wasn’t “implying” anything in your direction. I wasn’t hiding. I was just making a point in a forum discussion.

Look, man—nobody’s out to get you. Nobody’s dreaming of fighting you. This whole thing? It’s in your head. Let it go.
Perhaps God lowered his standards to compound the scope of human understanding.
As he made Jesus Christ in the human body but the image of God for sure.
 

Behold

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However, it is hard for me to imagine God, like a human father, loving good children and detesting bad ones.

"God is no respecter of persons".

How does God separate humanity?

Some are born again, some are not.

If not, then they are under John 3:36.

If they are born again, then they are "Abraham's SEED, according to the promise".......Paul teaches.
This is why Paul says that "Abraham is the father of our faith".
 

Behold

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I wasn’t thinking about you as a person. Not even a little.

I dont believe you.

I think you are being dishonest because you are embarrassed by your own posted public stupidity.

I dont think this is something new for you.@Chrysostomos

So, my advice, is that if you want to talk about ""punching someone"", (on a Christian forum ever again).... then dont post it to me.

Be smarter next time, and you have my permission to stop talking about your issue = asap.
Also, if an anger management class would help you, then why dont you sign up?
 
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Chrysostomos

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I dont believe you.

I think you are being dishonest because you are embarrassed by your own posted public stupidity.

I dont think this is something new for you.@Chrysostomos

So, my advice, is that if you want to talk about ""punching someone"", (on a Christian forum ever again).... then dont post it to me.

Be smarter next time, and you have my permission to stop talking about your issue = asap.
Also, if an anger management class would help you, then why dont you sign up?
What exactly don’t you believe? That you’re just some random guy on a forum to me, someone I know nothing about except whatever’s in your profile?

Seriously—what’s the motive? Why on earth would I want to “punch” you? Give me one single reason. There isn’t one.

You’re being paranoid, ego-driven, and playing the victim for no reason.
You need help, man. See a therapist.
 
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Behold

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What exactly don’t you believe? That you’re just some random guy on a forum to me,

I told you what i dont believe, in 2 posts., and explained it.

So, if im just some "random guy on a forum" then maybe you can find someone else to talk to...?, unless you just can't help yourself and need to keep posting to me regarding your "need to punch someone" issue.

Why dont you try that, asap? @Chrysostomos
 
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Chrysostomos

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@Behold, see? You still can’t name a single motive. You invented the whole thing. It’s all in your head.

Now you’re acting like I’m stalking you — like I’m not talking to anyone else on this forum, just hunting you down.

Your ego is the size of Jupiter, plus full-blown paranoia and a pro-level victim complex.
I’m done feeding the delusion. Bye.
 

Behold

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@Behold, see? You still can’t name a single motive.

You Can't leave it alone can you little fella...


So, As i told you..
Next time....>instead of posting on this fourm some stupidity about "punching people"....
= Think instead.
And as i told you.. instead of having those raging feelings and needing to vent them on this Fourm because you are out of control.... just go and seek an anger management class.
They are free...
It'll do you some good @Chrysostomos .
it might even help you be a more honest person.
 

Lizbeth

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@Lizbeth, I’ve said this before in another thread with @amigo de christo: communicating on the English-speaking internet is incredibly difficult for me. Everyone gets offended, plays the victim, and accuses you of “anti-Semitism,” “racism,” or whatever.

Over years of engaging here, I’ve realized the culture is wildly different from Runet. In Runet, people say exactly what they think—no filter, full contact, blood and guts.

Here, I’m scared to write anything without overthinking every word seven times to smooth out “sharp edges,” and still, someone gets offended. If I had to compare, the English internet isn’t even wrestling—it’s a game of who can act more offended or claim to be more insulted. And I keep losing at this game.

For example, @Behold accused me of wanting to beat him up. Why? I didn’t even understand who he was at first or why he thought I wanted to punch him, with only a laptop stopping me. Then I remembered—he’s the one who lives in Israel but doesn’t know official Israeli statistics. He stuck in my mind only for that. On this forum, he’d be at the bottom of the list of people I’d even think about punching. I talked to him briefly at the start of this thread and had already forgotten about him. But apparently, he’s been thinking all this time that I’m dreaming of beating him up. Absurd!

Then today, @soberxp asked me: “If I say that I have sought eternal life from my very youth, do you think I am snobbish?” What kind of question is that? Why would I think he’s a snob? Especially over words like that. Where? How? Why did he decide to ask me that? Where did I give any reason?

Now you’re accusing me of sounding harsh. But where? I’ve tried to be as polite as possible. And still, my messages hurt someone’s delicate feelings.

You also accuse me of sliding into anti-Semitism. But on what basis? I’ve only cited official Israeli statistics, well-known historical facts, and Scripture. And still, you try to slap the “anti-Semite” label on me.

Tell me, how am I supposed to communicate with all of you? You constantly pretend to be victims out of thin air, trying to make me the villain.
I'm not accusing you of anything. I am thinking particularly of the people who might be reading along, that none of us slide into a wrong attitude towards the Jews. I understand that one can't qualify every statement they make when posting on the internet, and I don't want people to misunderstand your posts or use them to justify a wrong attitude.
 
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Chrysostomos

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I'm not accusing you of anything. I am thinking particularly of the people who might be reading along, that none of us slide into a wrong attitude towards the Jews. I understand that one can't qualify every statement they make when posting on the internet, and I don't want people to misunderstand your posts or use them to justify a wrong attitude.
Bluntly: you’re not seeking truth—you’re engaging in sophistry.
I am just trying to balance the things you are saying with reminders that we as Christians should have love for the Jews and not sit in judgment over them.
In the context of the question “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord?” (2 Chronicles 19:2), you respond: “we as Christians should have love for the Jews.”

Earlier in this thread, @Big Boy Johnson quoted Galatians 6:10—“do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith”—as a simplistic “be nice to everyone” platitude. It dodges the issue. The prophet Jehu rebuked Jehoshaphat: “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.”

So, both you and @Big Boy Johnson are directly claiming that Christians should love the wicked and love those who hate the Lord.

But your teaching has nothing to do with Christianity, the Bible, or what Jesus Christ taught. I explained this clearly—see posts #184 and #185–187.

Your doctrine is essentially Satanism.
You stubbornly reject sound teaching.
That means this is your conscious choice in favor of Satan.
 
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Lizbeth

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Bluntly: you’re not seeking truth—you’re engaging in sophistry.

In the context of the question “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord?” (2 Chronicles 19:2), you respond: “we as Christians should have love for the Jews.”

Earlier in this thread, @Big Boy Johnson quoted Galatians 6:10—“do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith”—as a simplistic “be nice to everyone” platitude. It dodges the issue. The prophet Jehu rebuked Jehoshaphat: “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.”

So, both you and @Big Boy Johnson are directly claiming that Christians should love the wicked and love those who hate the Lord.

But your teaching has nothing to do with Christianity, the Bible, or what Jesus Christ taught. I explained this clearly—see posts #184 and #185–187.

Your doctrine is essentially Satanism.
You stubbornly reject sound teaching.
That means this is your conscious choice in favor of Satan.
You seem to be interpreting the 2 Chron 19:2 verse according to an old covenant mindset.....which is a carnal minded way of thinking. I already tried to share how the Lord opened that verse to me....we need to have the mind of the Spirit, the mind of Christ......it is the same idea of where it says in the new testament that we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers which would include unbelieving Israel....and that means the church is not to come alongside with, join hands with, have common ground with or be in agreement with or lend support to their causes and false beliefs. We are to remain separate. But that doesn't mean we are to judge/condemn anyone, but rather demonstrate to them as individual souls the mercy and grace of the Lord Jesus, and leave the geopolitics for government. We are not to be entangled with the affairs of this world, as Paul wrote in 2 Tim 2. That is not our mission as His church and body on this earth.

Do you think it's Satanism to be like the good Samaritan?
 

Chrysostomos

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You seem to be interpreting the 2 Chron 19:2 verse according to an old covenant mindset.....which is a carnal minded way of thinking. I already tried to share how the Lord opened that verse to me....we need to have the mind of the Spirit, the mind of Christ......it is the same idea of where it says in the new testament that we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers which would include unbelieving Israel....and that means the church is not to come alongside with, join hands with, have common ground with or be in agreement with or lend support to their causes and false beliefs. We are to remain separate. But that doesn't mean we are to judge/condemn anyone, but rather demonstrate to them as individual souls the mercy and grace of the Lord Jesus, and leave the geopolitics for government. We are not to be entangled with the affairs of this world, as Paul wrote in 2 Tim 2. That is not our mission as His church and body on this earth.

Do you think it's Satanism to be like the good Samaritan?
Stripping away the sophistry, you’ve confirmed it again: So, you’re really saying we should do good to the wicked and love those who hate the Lord.

@Big Boy Johnson justified his stance with Galatians 6:10, and you add the Parable of the Good Samaritan to yours.

Your doctrine is essentially Satanism.

Meanwhile, you keep using the typical Protestant primitive rhetorical trick: “The Lord opened this verse to me... we need the mind of the Spirit, the mind of Christ...”—pure sophistry.
 

Lizbeth

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This is another problem. That’s why it’s so hard to communicate with you all.

You essentially dismiss my arguments—official Israeli statistics, well-known historical facts, and Scripture—while saying you don’t, but “our reliance needs to be on the Holy Spirit and hearing from Him.”

Similarly, in another thread “What a Modern Christian Needs to
Understand to Tackle Today's Challenges,” @Big Boy Johnson answers a direct question with: “God's Word and the leading / teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ.... is all true Christians need as this is more than enough.”

You all, as one, at some point pull out the magic phrase: “our reliance needs to be on the Holy Spirit.”
This signals you don’t care about any arguments, facts, or evidence—no matter what I say. You declare yourselves a priori right in everything because you “rely on the Holy Spirit,” not reason, logic, arguments, or facts.
How do you continue a dialogue after that?
The god of this world (Satan) often distorts the so-called facts and truth. Do you really believe we can RELY on everything that is written down in the resources of this world? For example, it is usually the "victors" who write the history books and you don't get to hear the other side of the stories. Our RELIANCE needs to be on the Lord, His Spirit and HIS word. Has it crossed your mind at all that the writers of the Kahzar theory might be engaging in anti-semitism? Knowing this world and the nature of fallen man, I would guess that is more than likely. Many Jews are even anti-semitic and that would get reflected in their "scholarship" too. At the very least, that possibility should be born in mind if the truth is really what we are after.
 
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Chrysostomos

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The god of this world (Satan) often distorts the so-called facts and truth. Do you really believe we can RELY on everything that is written down in the resources of this world? For example, it is usually the "victors" who write the history books and you don't get to hear the other side of the stories. Our RELIANCE needs to be on the Lord, His Spirit and HIS word. Has it crossed your mind at all that the writers of the Kahzar theory might be engaging in anti-semitism? Knowing this world and the nature of fallen man, I would guess that is more than likely. Many Jews are even anti-semitic and that would get reflected in their "scholarship" too. At the very least, that possibility should be born in mind if the truth is really what we are after.
I got it the first time: to all my arguments—widely accepted historical facts, official Israeli statistics, Scripture, and personal observations—you apply the cheap, typical Protestant rhetorical trick: “Our RELIANCE needs to be on the Lord, His Spirit and HIS word.” Pure sophistry. You have nothing more to say.
 

amigo de christo

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The god of this world (Satan) often distorts the so-called facts and truth. Do you really believe we can RELY on everything that is written down in the resources of this world? For example, it is usually the "victors" who write the history books and you don't get to hear the other side of the stories. Our RELIANCE needs to be on the Lord, His Spirit and HIS word. Has it crossed your mind at all that the writers of the Kahzar theory might be engaging in anti-semitism? Knowing this world and the nature of fallen man, I would guess that is more than likely. Many Jews are even anti-semitic and that would get reflected in their "scholarship" too. At the very least, that possibility should be born in mind if the truth is really what we are after.
We have many HIStories and HERstories .
man will do as man has always done and always is biased towards that which he loveth .
But the sheep of OUR LORD shall do as JESUS bid them and bids them to do .
We got all the history of how things went , whether the good that came upon those who DID HEED the LORD
or whether the destuction that came upon those who did wickedly and despite the warnings of GOD
did not repent of the evil .
The simplicity and the beauty of the T RUTH left to us in the scriptures
that we do the good and follow not the pattern of the evil .
In these last h ours , more now than ever
AI paints a picture of histories , as has man , unto this people.
And if one has read and continues to read the scriptures
We would have seen the same identical pattern has come upon Much of Christendom
as it did upon the rebellious house of israel and Jerusalem .
Wicked sister RCC has done much damage unto the people
and when her sister protestant saw it , She repented not but has done as has her sister .
And now all merge under the shade and shadow of a Harlot who sits high upon the sea .
And as the true prophets did warn , as more so as the time drew near ,
REPENT , REPENT for why will ye die , SO too do the children of the harlot say to them ,
We shall not see the s word , or destruction but shall have PEACE .
But it will not be PEACE for them ON THE SUDDEN and MI GHTY DAY of the LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY
and of the LAMB , for by means of peace CHRISTENDOM sold JESUS OUT and merged all together as one
The darkness with the Light , AS IF there is such a thing .
 
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Lizbeth

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I got it the first time: to all my arguments—widely accepted historical facts, official Israeli statistics, Scripture, and personal observations—you apply the cheap, typical Protestant rhetorical trick: “Our RELIANCE needs to be on the Lord, His Spirit and HIS word.” Pure sophistry. You have nothing more to say.
Do you think it is mere sophistry to be born of the Spirit and to receive the Holy Spirit as Jesus spoke about? He is alive and real and speaks to and engages with His people. And He is the measure of truth, not what man or devil may say.
 
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Lizbeth

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And if one has read and continues to read the scriptures
And one needs to be born of the Spirit and receive the Spirit to begin to be able to know the truth about anything.

And just to say, the potential for AI to deceive and mold the masses is staggering to me. We better keep in mind what scripture says about truth being thrown to the ground, calling good evil and evil good, etc. May the Lord help His people to remain anchored to the truth and navigate safely through a world under the sway of AI and those who control and manipulate it.
 
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amigo de christo

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And one needs to be born of the Spirit and receive the Spirit to begin to be able to know the truth about anything.

And just to say, the potential for AI to deceive and mold the masses is staggering to me. We better keep in mind what scripture says about truth being thrown to the ground, calling good evil and evil good, etc. May the Lord help His people to remain anchored to the truth and navigate safely through a world under the sway of AI and those who control and manipulate it.
For with the carnal mind of man the wisdom of GOD is not received . IT is not subject unto the things of GOD .
Spot on right sister
 
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HealthyShape

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Do you think it is mere sophistry to be born of the Spirit and to receive the Holy Spirit as Jesus spoke about? He is alive and real and speaks to and engages with His people. And He is the measure of truth, not what man or devil may say.
I think the point is that it brings nothing to the table in such conversations like this. Both sides can say it and still say nothing.

In the end, one must engage in "secular" data and in rational reasoning to talk about the affairs in the world.
 
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