Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.

[HealthyShape]

They crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Lk 23:33-34

I find this related to this topic. Jesus prayed for the good of the Romans who were harming him.

 

[Chrysostomos]

They crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Lk 23:33-34

I find this related to this topic. Jesus prayed for the good of the Romans who were harming him.

in the Parable of the Wicked Tenants (Matthew 21:33–46), Jesus directly exposes the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees. The parable is so clear that they themselves understood He was speaking about them (Matthew 21:45). Jesus reveals what the Father will do to those who rejected and killed His only begotten Son: “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants” (Matthew 21:41).

No Gospel says Jesus loved those who rejected Him as Messiah and crucified Him. Even less does it say He loved the Romans—pagans—who remained unbelievers in His messiahship.

On the cross, Jesus prayed: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34)—referring to the soldiers executing orders as executioners, not expressing universal love for all Romans, especially pagan unbelievers in Him as Messiah.

Even here, Jesus asked not to impute sin to the executioners for carrying out orders—but said nothing about forgiving their other sins. He didn’t fully absolve Pilate either, saying: “He who delivered me over to you has the greater sin” (John 19:11)—meaning the Jews bore greater guilt, but Pilate still shared responsibility. The soldiers were subordinate, following commands. That’s who Jesus meant—not a blanket pardon for all unbelieving pagans or Christ-rejecters.

 

[Chrysostomos]

You still don't get it. What can I say?
Did the disciples curse those people or call the police or call out to God in the face of persecution and death?

Soon, on this forum, I'll only be repeating what I've already written and linking to my previous messages. You keep writing the same things over and over. And you ask questions after I've already answered them.

I explained this clearly—see posts #372

Where did you get the idea that if you don't call the police, let a criminal kill you, rape your daughter, rob you, and escape—then you'll definitely go to heaven?

The apostles never prohibited self-defense, military service, or going to court. On the contrary: the Apostle Paul himself went to court and demanded Caesar's judgment (Acts 25:11). And in his Epistle to the Romans, he said directly:

"The authority is God's servant... he does not bear the sword in vain; he is God's servant, an avenger to execute wrath on the one who practices evil" (Rom. 13:4).

And further: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil... for he is God's servant to you for good."

This one quote alone—and Tolstoyan non-resistance collapses. Tolstoyan doctrine teaches: "Do not resist evil, love everyone, do not judge, do not call on authority."
But the Apostle Paul says: authority is from God, the sword is not in vain, evil is punishable.

Self-defense is not a sin. Protecting one's family is a duty. Appealing to courts and authorities is a biblical norm. And "love for all" without distinguishing good from evil is heresy.

Tolstoyan non-resistance is not evangelical love. It is a trap.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Well, I don't read Russian, so I'll have to take your word for it.

No matter. Stick to the Bible, you won't go wrong. God teaches us to love others.

Do you know . . . love, in Scripture, is not just some fuzzy warm feeling, it's action, to commit yourself to the wellbeing of others.

Would you sacrifice your life to save the life of someone who had just stolen from you or beaten you or whatever, in the hope that in doing so you may give them opportunity to repent? Or would you allow them to die, knowing that they do not know Jesus?

If you ever have to answer that question in real life, I hope you are prepared for it.

Much love!

I would do everything in my power—provided it doesn’t endanger my family or loved ones—to ensure the criminal ends up in a cell with plenty of time to reflect on what he’s done.

But! If the criminal threatens my family or loved ones, I will do everything to protect them.

No! I will not sacrifice my wife or my children just to give a criminal more time to commit crimes, hoping that—somehow, someday—he’ll repent while facing no consequences.

 

[soberxp]

Soon, on this forum, I'll only be repeating what I've already written and linking to my previous messages. You keep writing the same things over and over. And you ask questions after I've already answered them.

I explained this clearly—see posts #372

Where did you get the idea that if you don't call the police, let a criminal kill you, rape your daughter, rob you, and escape—then you'll definitely go to heaven?

The apostles never prohibited self-defense, military service, or going to court. On the contrary: the Apostle Paul himself went to court and demanded Caesar's judgment (Acts 25:11). And in his Epistle to the Romans, he said directly:

"The authority is God's servant... he does not bear the sword in vain; he is God's servant, an avenger to execute wrath on the one who practices evil" (Rom. 13:4).

And further: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil... for he is God's servant to you for good."

This one quote alone—and Tolstoyan non-resistance collapses. Tolstoyan doctrine teaches: "Do not resist evil, love everyone, do not judge, do not call on authority."
But the Apostle Paul says: authority is from God, the sword is not in vain, evil is punishable.

Self-defense is not a sin. Protecting one's family is a duty. Appealing to courts and authorities is a biblical norm. And "love for all" without distinguishing good from evil is heresy.

Tolstoyan non-resistance is not evangelical love. It is a trap.

You just don't get it now.
It's hard to explain for what you could not understand it now.


Thinking about Jesus Christ.

 

[HealthyShape]

in the Parable of the Wicked Tenants (Matthew 21:33–46), Jesus directly exposes the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees. The parable is so clear that they themselves understood He was speaking about them (Matthew 21:45). Jesus reveals what the Father will do to those who rejected and killed His only begotten Son: “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants” (Matthew 21:41).

No Gospel says Jesus loved those who rejected Him as Messiah and crucified Him. Even less does it say He loved the Romans—pagans—who remained unbelievers in His messiahship.

On the cross, Jesus prayed: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34)—referring to the soldiers executing orders as executioners, not expressing universal love for all Romans, especially pagan unbelievers in Him as Messiah.

Even here, Jesus asked not to impute sin to the executioners for carrying out orders—but said nothing about forgiving their other sins. He didn’t fully absolve Pilate either, saying: “He who delivered me over to you has the greater sin” (John 19:11)—meaning the Jews bore greater guilt, but Pilate still shared responsibility. The soldiers were subordinate, following commands. That’s who Jesus meant—not a blanket pardon for all unbelieving pagans or Christ-rejecters.

Well, I think you are trying to explain out quite a clear verse. Jesus was praying for those who were killing Him.

And yes, Israel was judged for their multi-generational unbelief and constant rejection of God, in the final judgement in 70 AD.

Both are true, not just one of these things.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Well, I think you are trying to explain out quite a clear verse. Jesus was praying for those who were killing Him.

And yes, Israel was judged for their multi-generational unbelief and constant rejection of God, in the final judgement in 70 AD.

Both are true, not just one of these things.

Well, I think you are trying to explain away quite a clear verse. Jesus asked not to impute that specific sin to the executioners who were carrying out orders and did not know what they were doing. Those who killed Jesus were the ones shouting, “Crucify Him! His blood be on us and on our children!”

 

[amigo de christo]

They crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Lk 23:33-34

I find this related to this topic. Jesus prayed for the good of the Romans who were harming him.

Notice what stephen also said . First , steven as did CHRIST corrected them .
But even later steven says LORD hold not THIS SIN to t heir charge .
LOVE is not cushy lets not correct .
LOVE simply desires and does what is BEST for the others .
So yeah its gonna correct too and rejoice ONLY , ONLY in THE TRUTH and not in inquity .
As that is what CHARITY DOES .

 

[Chrysostomos]

You just don't get it now.
It's hard to explain for what you could not understand it now.


Thinking about Jesus Christ.

I've noticed that everyone who claims they "walk in the Spirit" struggles to express their thoughts clearly. In fact, you simply can't formulate your ideas in a coherent, logical, and articulate way.

By contrast, I find it easy to express my thoughts and state my position clearly—no sophistry, just straightforward, precise, and to the point.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Notice what stephen also said . First , steven as did CHRIST corrected them .
But even later steven says LORD hold not THIS SIN to t heir charge .
LOVE is not cushy lets not correct .
LOVE simply desires and does what is BEST for the others .
So yeah its gonna correct too and rejoice ONLY , ONLY in THE TRUTH and not in inquity .
As that is what CHARITY DOES .

Stephen also spoke about executioners. Or do you think the high priests did the dirty work themselves?

 

[soberxp]

I'vJobnoticed that everyone who claims they "walk in the Spirit" struggles to express their thoughts clearly. In fact, you simply can't formulate your ideas in a coherent, logical, and articulate way.

By contrast, I find it easy to express my thoughts and state my position clearly—no sophistry, just straightforward, precise, and to the point.

Use one words, take up your own cross and follow Jesus Christ.

But I believe that God would not let you bear Something you can't bear As Job or something else.

I'm not blaming you, it's just that you don't understand that level yet.

 

[HealthyShape]

Notice what stephen also said . First , steven as did CHRIST corrected them .
But even later steven says LORD hold not THIS SIN to t heir charge .
LOVE is not cushy lets not correct .
LOVE simply desires and does what is BEST for the others .
So yeah its gonna correct too and rejoice ONLY , ONLY in THE TRUTH and not in inquity .
As that is what CHARITY DOES .

It seems to me that the Scriptures can be interpreted in this way:
- loving our personal enemies, blessing them, praying for them, not taking revenge against them
- being protective, even with the use of force, when somebody else is being harmed; in the "bigger picture"

 

[amigo de christo]

It seems to me that the Scriptures can be interpreted in this way:
- loving our personal enemies, blessing them, praying for them, not taking revenge against them
- being protective, even with the use of force, when somebody else is being harmed; in the "bigger picture"

being protective of them , by hiding them and etc .
but picking up the SWORD , No . We do not shed blood .
You can hide christains being persecuted and etc
and send them out another way , as did rahab .
But no blood shed is to be done .

 

[Chrysostomos]

Use one words, take up your own cross and follow Jesus Christ.

But I believe that God would not let you bear Something you can't bear As Job or something else.

I'm not blaming you, it's just that you don't understand that level yet.

Another one spiraled into a vortex of meaningless phrases. What am I supposed to reply to that? What’s left to discuss with you after this?
I could easily take the same stance:
"I'm not blaming you, it's just that you haven't reached that level yet. You still don't get it. You can't think logically or critically. What am I supposed to do with someone like you?"

 

[HealthyShape]

being protective of them , by hiding them and etc .
but picking up the SWORD , No . We do not shed blood .
You can hide christains being persecuted and etc
and send them out another way , as did rahab .
But no blood shed is to be done .

When the Roman soldiers asked John the Baptist what they are supposed to do, he did not say "leave the army, you must become pacifists". John only instructed them to not rob people of money and to not be oppressive to people.

 

[amigo de christo]

Stephen also spoke about executioners. Or do you think the high priests did the dirty work themselves?

Of course .
And now a reminder .
Most folks beleive that if they supported a sin , or murder of one , or etc
YET they did not actually do it , That means its not on them .
But WHO did JESUS say , to PILATE had the greater sin . Those who had DELIVERED HIM OVER
Lets remember that the next time
anyone cometh into our churches IN A KNOWN SIN
and one tries to tell themselves , HEY we were NOT IN the sin , yet they support it
and or say nothing to them to correct their sin .
HE who supports the sin of another BE GUILTY my freind .
SO NO MORE RAINBOW supporting in churches
NO more overlooking the sins and errors of the people . WE DO all for the sake of the other
TO INCLUDE correcting one .
Many also try and act like just cause they never comitted an abortion , YET SUPPORTED IT
somehow they innocent . NOPE , wrong again .
We must not sin or SUPPORT SIN either , or ALLOW sin upon our neighbor . The bible is so lovely and the words so pure
and good .

 

[Chrysostomos]

It seems to me that the Scriptures can be interpreted in this way:
- loving our personal enemies, blessing them, praying for them, not taking revenge against them
- being protective, even with the use of force, when somebody else is being harmed; in the "bigger picture"

Has it ever happened to you that you could have "played the hero," but then you thought: "If something happens to me, who will my wife and children be left with? Who will take care of them?"

So where do you see the fundamental difference between an attack on you personally and an attack on your family? After all, you are your family.

 

[amigo de christo]

When the Roman soldiers asked John the Baptist what they are supposed to do, he did not say "leave the army, you must become pacifists". John only instructed them to not rob people of money and to not be oppressive to people.

I beleive the words were DO NO VIOLENCE to any man .
last time i checked taking anothers life sure seems a wee bit on the stronger side of violence .
I have seen , or heard of a few christains in the military .
They had refused to kill , however they had no problem saving and dragging the wounded to safety ,
EVEN under gun fire .
But would absolutely NOT pick up arms and take a life .

 

[HealthyShape]

I beleive the words were DO NO VIOLENCE to any man .
last time i checked taking anothers life sure seems a wee bit on the stronger side of violence .
I have seen , or heard of a few christains in the military .
They had refused to kill , however they had no problem saving and dragging the wounded to safety ,
EVEN under gun fire .
But would absolutely NOT pick up arms and take a life .

Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”
Lk 3:14

Nothing about pacifism.

 

[amigo de christo]

Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?” He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”
Lk 3:14

Nothing about pacifism.

its in another gospel .
It sure does say DO violence to no man .
You do realize IT was under the RCC largely that this
national pride join and kill for country was introduced .
For when one merges state and church , well they will surely fight to defend THAT EARTHLY KINGDOM .
But , OURS IS HEAVENLY not earthly . Many are huge on national pride of nation
many more are huge on wordly govt pride
BOTH are deadly . OUR kingdom , NOT OF This world
ITS heavenly , as our weapons are now SPIRITUAL and not carnal .