Two Gatherings at Jesus' Coming

[Scott Downey]

No, the Word does not use the word "Rapture" either. But that isn't the point. What matters is what Paul meant to say, and he said that Jesus' Coming to gather the Church cannot happen unless Antichrist appears 1st. Then Paul explains *when* Christ will come for his Church. And that will be when he comes to *destroy the Man of Sin.* Nothing could be clearer to me personally. But I understand that this position contradicts your own position.

You're unnecessarily complicating a simple statement. The Coming to gather the Church cannot take place unless the Man of Sin appears 1st. Then Christ will come to destroy him, which is when he comes to gather the Church.

I'm not at all confused. Jesus comes to gather his Church, making them immortal. But he also comes to restore Israel, along with many other nations of faith.

The Tribulation is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age. God's wrath takes place in varying degrees all through history. At the end of the age it will take the form of Armageddon, designed to defeat Antichristianity.

Healing of the nations only happens after Christ returns and we get new earth and new heavens in which dwells righteousness, just like Peter says in 2 Peter 3 which is about what happens at the coming of the Lord Jesus; there is no intermediate period of waiting for that.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 22 - New King James Version

The River of Life - And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The...

www.biblegateway.com

Rev 22
And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

 

[David in NJ]

The rapture of the Church happens in the summer, so October, November and December are not viable candidates for the rapture of the Church to happen..

What month are you picking for 2026 ???

 

[Scott Downey]

The rapture of the Church happens in the summer, so October, November and December are not viable candidates for the rapture of the Church to happen..

Not the way I hear what Jesus said.
He said you do not know the time your Lord is coming.

Reading onwards in Mark 13, this

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that [i]it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

 

[Randy Kluth]

What month are you picking for 2026 ???

I hope you're kidding?

 

[David in NJ]

I hope you're kidding?

What are you saying @Randy Kluth ??? Please give a little more detail - thank you

 

[JLB]

3) CHRIST Is { Leaving Heaven } Coming With, ( which Were In Heaven! ),His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15 AV)

‘Amen.


The saints in heaven will return with Him.


But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14



Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” Jude 14-15


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5

 

[Randy Kluth]

What are you saying @Randy Kluth ??? Please give a little more detail - thank you

Are you seriously wanting to pinpoint the time of Christ's Coming?

 

[David in NJ]

Are you seriously wanting to pinpoint the time of Christ's Coming?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

Many of us here who know the TRUTH have been warning the brethren who are under the spell of pre-trib rapture.

Thus my response to those who have been setting dates and/or saying "anyday now".

The pre-fibbers were saying "October is the rapture according to the Jewish Feast of blah blah blah....."

Have you ever researched how many have sold homes and possessions to give to the false teachers/preachers because they were persuaded by the "pre-trib rapture at any day/moment"

My wife heard those pastors on the christian radio during covid convincing people to "sell out now" and "you won't need your finances for Christ is coming so send us your money and have reward in heaven" = scoundrels

 

[marks]

So you are a different from what pre mill teaches then? Some kind of hybrid?

You do not believe Christian survivors of the great tribulation will keep earthly bodies untransformed at the return of Christ?
As I showed in that web article doctrine on the millennial reign from gotquestions that clearly states the premill doctrine

Is this how you define the "sheep" who survive the great tribulation, and are welcomed into the kingdom? That these are the Christian survivors?

The body of Christ was raptured pre-trib. Post-trib, the surviving Isrealites are gathered to faith and salvation. They are gathered, returned to their promised land exactly as prophesied throughout the Bible.

Then the gentiles are gathered and judged righteous from wicked based on their works concerning God's chosen nation, Israel. Again, just as prophesied both old and new testaments.

The body of Christ fits nowhere in that scenerio, which is the point of the OP.

Those the survivors of Israel, and the "sheep" enter into the kingdom, and to the wedding feast of the Lamb, the bride, and the guests. These are still mortals who will have families, and children, who will populate the earth during the 1,000 year kingdom.

You are thinking in terms of a continuous dispensation from now until Jesus comes in power and glory, but the Bible shows something different. Many who consider national Israel over in God's eyes do not realize this 7 year time will be the salvation for 1/3 of the Israelites. "It is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it."

Those Jews who heed Jesus' warning will flee Judia to be nourished in the wilderness, preparing for the Lord's coming, saying Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the LORD. The beast will be destroying those whom he may destroy, as God sends His plagues upon the earth. This will continue until Jesus ends it by His coming in power and glory.

And again, the survivors of the chosen nation are regathered to their promised land, while the surviving gentiles are gathered and judged.

I think you'll find me very mainstream pre-mil. I'm not in lockstep with everyone, but then who is concerning eschatology?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I asked Copilot AI

Just to let you know, I have zero interest in reading anything AI. As far as I'm concerned I prefer no AI content be posted on my thread.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

The body of Christ was raptured pre-trib. Post-trib, the surviving Isrealites are gathered to faith and salvation. They are gathered, returned to their promised land exactly as prophesied throughout the Bible.

“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’
So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Is this how you define the "sheep" who survive the great tribulation, and are welcomed into the kingdom? That these are the Christian survivors?

The body of Christ was raptured pre-trib. Post-trib, the surviving Isrealites are gathered to faith and salvation. They are gathered, returned to their promised land exactly as prophesied throughout the Bible.

Then the gentiles are gathered and judged righteous from wicked based on their works concerning God's chosen nation, Israel. Again, just as prophesied both old and new testaments.

The body of Christ fits nowhere in that scenerio, which is the point of the OP.

Those the survivors of Israel, and the "sheep" enter into the kingdom, and to the wedding feast of the Lamb, the bride, and the guests. These are still mortals who will have families, and children, who will populate the earth during the 1,000 year kingdom.

You are thinking in terms of a continuous dispensation from now until Jesus comes in power and glory, but the Bible shows something different. Many who consider national Israel over in God's eyes do not realize this 7 year time will be the salvation for 1/3 of the Israelites. "It is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he will be saved out of it."

Those Jews who heed Jesus' warning will flee Judia to be nourished in the wilderness, preparing for the Lord's coming, saying Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the LORD. The beast will be destroying those whom he may destroy, as God sends His plagues upon the earth. This will continue until Jesus ends it by His coming in power and glory.

And again, the survivors of the chosen nation are regathered to their promised land, while the surviving gentiles are gathered and judged.

I think you'll find me very mainstream pre-mil. I'm not in lockstep with everyone, but then who is concerning eschatology?

Much love!

Then you do not acknowledge this here are gentile Christians being saved during the 'great tribulation' as the church is gone.
And only jews are left to believe in Christ....

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation​

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, [b]“Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [c]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@marks, your doctrine is convoluted and strange, quite different from what scripture actually says. You are making up stories, cleverly designed fables.

And the 'pre mill' view, is these believers are 'late to the party', missed the rapture, get to suffer death for their faith and when Christ returns do not get rewarded with glorified transformed bodies, but have to stay as earthly flesh and blood, which according to scripture means they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

All believers in Christ when He returns are changed, given glorified bodies, and not left in their earthly state, something pre mills deny.

1 Corinthians 15:50

Our Final Victory​

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[The Light]

Of course, if all the church "thought that", then we realize those months would Fit Perfectly With His Truth, eh?

"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."​

(Matthew 24:44 AV)​

​

Amen.

I suggest you study the feasts of God. Song of Solomon 2 might also help.

 

[The Light]

What month are you picking for 2026 ???

IF there is a rapture in 2026, I can assure you that it will happen in the summer.

 

[JLB]

Are you seriously wanting to pinpoint the time of Christ's Coming?

‘Yes.

The scriptures are clear about His coming and when that will be.

 

[The Light]

Not the way I hear what Jesus said.
He said you do not know the time your Lord is coming.

Reading onwards in Mark 13, this

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that [i]it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

WATCH! The Lord commands us to watch.

The Lord went to be with the Father. After that John had a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If you do not watch, He will come in an hour that you think not. What happens when you watch?

 

[LoveYeshua]

One of the reasons I believe in a pre-trib rapture, there is no place for the body of Christ at His coming, only that we return with Jesus.

Matthew 24:30-31 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

These are Israel.

Joel 3:1 KJV
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

These are the Gentiles, both righteous and unrighteous.

Joel 3:2 KJV
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joel 3:2 LITV
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, for My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they shared out My land.

When Jesus returns, He will send the angels to gather Israel back to their promised land, and then will gather the gentiles to be judged. They will be separated righteous and wicked, based on whether they supplied the needs for Israel.

The Body of Christ is not judged righteous or wicked based on works, but is righteous being baptized into the body of Christ.

Much love!

you forgot an omportant verse;
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

Mat 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[David in NJ]

IF there is a rapture in 2026, I can assure you that it will happen in the summer.

Why say "IF" if you are being told(and believing) "any day now" ???

Surely there must be a hidden prophecy of pre- trib rapture timing

 

[David in NJ]

Are you seriously wanting to pinpoint the time of Christ's Coming?

The Day and Hour = "no man shall know"

What is KNOWN is that CHRIST only Comes a 2nd Time(Once More) = Gospel, Apostles, Hebrews 9:28 , 1 John chapters 1 thru 3 , Revelation, Genesis
and anyone who says other is deceived, puffed up with pride

 

[The Light]

Why say "IF" if you are being told(and believing) "any day now" ???

Surely there must be a hidden prophecy of pre- trib rapture timing

Any day now? I said it won't happen in the fall of winter, so any day now is not what I said.