Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I did not say that Yahweh’s Son was not prophesized.
Find Yahweh's Son doing something in the Old Testament.
How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?
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I did not say that Yahweh’s Son was not prophesized.
Find Yahweh's Son doing something in the Old Testament.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come. Isaiah 43:19
What do you think this means?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This means the 2nd Promise of the FATHER
And while they were gathered together,a He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
THEY are Ecahd Elohim = One United GOD = when One is Present THEY are ALL Present in ONE
A.) Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.
B.) If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocatef to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
C.) I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.
@Aunty Jane @dak
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Like I said Yeshua explained the oneness concept and we are included in it....
Speaking to God the Father (He is not talking to Himself) Yeshua says this about the concept of one...John 17:22 “And the glory which to them; that they may be one just as We are one.” Because Yeshua says “just as” this is an exactness, a duplication of a condition that we can achieve, and He states that this condition of “oneness” can apply to us, but it has nothing to do with absorption or singularity, but rather a condition of spiritual union and solidarity between God and us. The next verse further defines this by describing a unity with Christ that would cause the same condition with us as it did with them, a condition of perfection.
Again, not talking to Himself, in John 17:23 “I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that You did send Me, and do love them, even as you do love Me.”
In this context millions of people could be made one...one being a abstract concept of one, but a more literal meaning of unity, solidarity, and perfection and even a “body” that is considered one....the body of Christ or the body of the Church.
And then, the next verse is probably one of the best verses to put this oneness concept into perspective. The leading verses are speaking of the works of the Holy Spirit and then ends with this explanation. 1st Corinthians 12:11-13 “But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the member of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This SAME principal is being used by Satan to ensnare the human race = the Mark of the Beast
The MoB will connect as 'one' all who take the Mark = therefore there NEVER is forgiveness as it is the Final Act of Rebellion that began in the Garden and has now reached it's fullness whereby God must Judge = same SIN as in Noah'Day, except this time the Judgment is with FIRE
Paul does says there is a fellowship of this mystery between them which had been hid in God (Ephes 3:9)
Tells us here as we know,
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Paul speaks of the unsearchable riches of Christ
Ephes 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles
the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Which from the beginning had been hid in God
Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world
hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
The Word which was with God also in the beginning
1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
It says of God the Father, "of whom" are all things and of Jesus, "the Word of" and "Son of God" "by whom" are all things, and that God created all things by Jesus Christ
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
This refers to God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ....there are a lot of the AND type verses.
To be fair I want to make one thing clear.....for people that believe in the one God formula, this false belief has been around so long I cannot blame them. I say God sometimes but what I mean is Godhead.
As far as John the scholars note the Gnostic flavor of John's Gospel. The Word....Logos....a 6th century BC Greek term was also popular with the Gnostics. But for those that believe that Yeshua was in the Old Testament I cannot blame them either. I kind of do.....because I believe a God's relation with time is different than ours in that they exist to some extent in the past, present, and future. One of Einstein's theorys.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Glad I didn't say that!
Gen 1:26 God, (NOT the Gods), said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness".
Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Just like the CYB Statement of Faith says!
From the CYB Statement of Faith: "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)"
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I honestly do not get all the theological mathisms or any other isms that be out there, I just stick with the scripture, and compare as those speak, but what it does make clear is that Jesus Christ was actually hid in God, and that God made all things by Jesus Christ. So there is no doubt to the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Like, you have the Word that was WITH God (but who is also God, right?)
But the Word WAS MADE FLESH, we know as Jesus Christ (made a man)
In whom was fulness of the Godhead bodily.
I see it as the Word (or lets say, The God who was with God) was the one made flesh (The Word made a man, Jesus Christ)
While the God (Who the Word was with) being "the One" Jesus lived by ( because the Father did dwell within him)
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell
I actually think its hard to put in your own words, so I do try to stick with scripture only, take my words (and their imperfections with a grain of salt) because I think its really easy to be misunderstood, but at least Paul makes clear, this is a mystery between them and that this was hid in God, and so not something that was clear, and that there are unsearchable riches in Jesus Christ, that are just that, "unsearchable" though it is so interesting to looking into and find those bits.
Shows the three here also
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And since its the Word that was made flesh, who was crucified, died and was raised again shows us here
Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
We see the Word, made Lord and Christ sitting at the right hand of the LORD
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Romans 15:16 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
When Jesus ascended he said, He ascended to His God and Father and to our God and Father, and so for us now Paul would say
1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
And so as David said, we acknowledge the same by the Holy Ghost
Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And since its the Word that was made flesh, who was crucified, died and was raised again shows us here
Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
We see the Word, made Lord and Christ sitting at the right hand of the LORD
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Romans 15:16 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
When Jesus ascended he said, He ascended to His God and Father and to our God and Father, and so for us now Paul would say
1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
And so as David said, we acknowledge the same by the Holy Ghost
Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
And that is entirely true....only the first mention of “ho theos” is Yahweh...the second can rightly be translated as “a god the Word was”.
As was mentioned here by @David in NJ....
The plural there is “the plural of majesty”.....”the Royal WE”....it does not indicate a plurality of persons in one God, but a heightened understanding of God’s position, power and Sovereignty in relation to his creation.
If we are created in God’s image, then multiple personality disorder would be the norm....but it’s classed as a mental illness....how do you pass three gods off as monotheistic? You force them into one body and claim that they are all the same person....something Scripture never does.
As you can see in David’s quoted definition, “Elohim” (god(s) can refer to “rulers, judges, divine ones, angels”.
So if “the (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God”....has all of these definitions, how is it that Christendom is stuck with just one conclusion?
Could it be that fear was the thing that put this doctrine into concrete and set it with “hell” hanging over heads for centuries? Tell a lie often enough to those with no means to verify anything, and it becomes the truth.
For a doctrine that was not officially included until it became Catholic doctrine in the 4th century after Christ’s death, don’t we have to ask where it came from, since Scripture has not one definite statement about it.
If there was a definite statement this would have been put to bed a very long time ago.
Every reference is couched in suggestion.....having been skewed by very old mistranslation and indoctrinated bias.
Jesus is covered by all of the quoted definitions.... “a ruler, divine one, godlike one, a special possession of God...as his “only begotten son”...the one he “sent” to redeem mankind. We have to “know the only true God and the one he sent”.....it’s a salvation issue. (John 17:3)
If the majority believe these doctrines introduce by an apostate church as Jesus foretold, then there is a reason why “few” are found on the road to life.....the majority are travelling in the other direction on a completely different super highway to “destruction”.... but they have no idea where that road will lead them. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) There is a narrow gate that leads to a cramped and difficult path to life.....”few” will find it.....so, where does that leave the “many”.....making their excuses to their “Lord” who now demands an accounting. Total rejection awaits them....
Jesus will soon tell us all, who were found on ‘the road less travelled’.
Jesus is "a god"? How Satanic! And you have the nerve to call the CYB Statement of Faith Satanic?????
Dan 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Royal WE are Echad Elohim, Who are THREE
The THREE are Identified, by Name, in Genesis and again in Exodus
The THREE are again Identified in the Gospel
The THREE are again Identified by the Apostles
The THREE are again Identified in Revelation as: LORD + GOD + ALMIGHTY = LORD GOD ALMIGHTY = Echad ELOHIM
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