45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
The just and the unjust. That's everybody, right?
Much love!
Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.
- Thread starter Chrysostomos
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The just and the unjust. That's everybody, right?
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
No we should not help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord .
WHICH IS DARN sure why we ought not to support in any way , be a co helper to in any
way that wicked abominational ecumenism interfaith i happen to see SO MANY now in s upport of it .
Lets examine ourselves please .
First off, why do you assume I’ve never set foot in a reformed church?
Second, I’m basically already “attending” one right here on this forum. The “church” isn’t just a building—it’s a gathering of people, as the Greek word ecclesia in Scripture literally means. And honestly? This forum isn’t much different from a reformed church. The only difference is that here, “all moves are recorded.” I can link my friends to these threads and show them that what happens in reformed churches is exactly what’s happening here—same vibes, same arguments.
From what I’ve seen, reformed churches are packed with Christian Zionists and fans of Darby’s dispensationalism. In the 19th century, John Nelson Darby dusted off the condemned idea of chiliasm, spun it into his dispensationalist system, and threw in his own inventions: the Rapture and a hard split between Israel (Jews) and the Church (Gentiles). None of that’s in the Bible. So why do you call Gentiles who convert to Judaism—or even atheists who now claim to be Jews—“Jews,” while Christians who believe in Jesus as Messiah and Savior are still labeled “Gentiles”?
In the US, constantly called me a “pagan” by Christian Zionists. It shocked me at first.
My parents are believers. My grandparents, under Soviet oppression, stayed devout. My grandmother hand-copied the Gospels into notebooks and shared them, risking 3 to 10 years in prison under Soviet laws like Article 70 (“anti-Soviet agitation”) or Article 190-1 (“spreading false fabrications”). Printing or sharing the Bible was illegal, yet she did it, facing arrest and losing everything. My great-grandparents were Orthodox too. My family’s been faithfully Orthodox for generations.
And yet, I’m a “pagan”? For what?
I mentioned in post #507 to @Lizbeth:
I’ve lived in Western countries dominated by Catholicism and Protestantism, where Orthodox churches are rare. Orthodox economia allows confession and communion in Catholic churches when there’s no Orthodox option nearby. I’ve attended Catholic services, openly saying I’m Orthodox with no church around.
Never once was I turned away—just welcomed, no judgment.
But because of attitudes like yours, I’d never step into a Protestant church, even if it’s the only one in town. I’d drive to another city, another state, or fly to an Orthodox country first. Every Protestant church feels like Russian roulette—one minute you’re a “pagan,” “unspiritual,” or accused of antisemitism.
You keep saying all churches are false.
So which church do you attend? Or are you a "lone wolf"?
You’re ripping quotes out of context to push the teachings of Leo Tolstoy.
I don’t even need to cite the Old Testament, other New Testament books, or different chapters of Matthew.
Let’s stick to your own turf—Matthew 5.
You lean on Matthew 5:43–48, but read just a bit earlier:
“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother without cause will be liable to judgment; whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to the fires of hell.” (Matthew 5:21–22)
So, let’s get this straight. You’re saying Jesus taught us to love:
- Criminals: pedophiles, murderers, rapists, thieves, swindlers…
- Military enemies
- Satanists: sorcerers, witches, devil-worshippers
Is that your take?
Jesus calls out even verbal insults as worthy of judgment, yet you twist His words to excuse every evil under the sun?
That’s not love—it’s distortion.
You’re not following Christ’s teaching.
You are preaching the doctrine of Leo Tolstoy, not the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I still say do what you want.
"All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be dominated by anything. —1 Corinthians 6:12
You have freedom—but not everything deserves your energy.
Sometimes evil people need to be cut off.
"Do not be deceived: 'Bad company ruins good morals.'" —1 Corinthians 15:33
"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." —Ephesians 5:11
Cutting ties isn’t cruelty—it’s clarity.
Sometimes you need to let God deal with people.
"Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord." —Romans 12:19
God sees. God handles. You don’t have to carry it.
If someone’s getting beat up every other weekend, it might be best to move on.
"Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." —Psalm 82:4
"Do not envy the violent or choose any of their ways." —Proverbs 3:31
Love does not mean staying in danger. God’s heart is for protection, not prolonged suffering.
I have no shame in this format.
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes." —Romans 1:16
Truth spoken boldly is not arrogance—it’s obedience.
God will leave people alone who don’t want Him, yet still show kindness.
"He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." —Matthew 5:45
"Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" —Romans 2:4
God’s mercy doesn’t mean He’s blind. It means He’s patient.
"All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be dominated by anything. —1 Corinthians 6:12
You have freedom—but not everything deserves your energy.
Sometimes evil people need to be cut off.
"Do not be deceived: 'Bad company ruins good morals.'" —1 Corinthians 15:33
"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." —Ephesians 5:11
Cutting ties isn’t cruelty—it’s clarity.
Sometimes you need to let God deal with people.
"Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord." —Romans 12:19
God sees. God handles. You don’t have to carry it.
If someone’s getting beat up every other weekend, it might be best to move on.
"Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked." —Psalm 82:4
"Do not envy the violent or choose any of their ways." —Proverbs 3:31
Love does not mean staying in danger. God’s heart is for protection, not prolonged suffering.
I have no shame in this format.
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes." —Romans 1:16
Truth spoken boldly is not arrogance—it’s obedience.
God will leave people alone who don’t want Him, yet still show kindness.
"He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous." —Matthew 5:45
"Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" —Romans 2:4
God’s mercy doesn’t mean He’s blind. It means He’s patient.
You probably mean evangelical churches. Reformed churches are not into dispenstionalism.
Don´t be melodramatic. Attend whatever church you like, your choice. Such statements like yours are useless/childish.
Last edited:
But you’re splitting hairs here. Evangelical churches are part of the broader Protestant family, and so are reformed churches. It’s not an either-or thing—evangelicalism cuts across denominations, including reformed ones. Many reformed folks, like those in the Presbyterian Church in America, lean evangelical and even flirt with Christian Zionism or Darby’s ideas, like the Rapture. I’ve seen it in Protestant circles, reformed or otherwise. Check Pew Research or Britannica: evangelicalism isn’t a separate branch—it’s a movement within Protestantism, including your reformed churches.
And no, I’m not being melodramatic. You misread my post. I clearly wrote in #507 to @Lizbeth:
“But because of attitudes like yours, I’d never step into a Protestant church…”
I copied post #507, which was addressed to @Lizbeth, so you could read it in the context of my full message.
It was meant to show that because of people like Lizbeth and others with similar attitudes, I have no desire to visit Protestant churches.
And yeah, there might be some confusion with the term “Protestant church,” since every Protestant seems to have their own take on what a “reformed church” even is.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You left out a word before all . MOST all churches have now tanked .
But i see you and society cannot help yourselves .
What is the one thing known to society and the church
that is seen as deadly dangerous . he was a lone wolf shooter says the news . a lone wolf .
I notice the church been using that same phrase on those who are not conforming .
OOOPS .
Of course. It is the HOLY Spirit.
You may be reading what I write but you sure aren't understanding it.
You better not step into the bible and call yourself a Christian either then........I haven't been bringing or saying anything different from what Jesus and the apostles said and taught....but unfortunately you have no ears to hear or eyes to see.
"Awake thou that sleepest and Christ will give thee light (understanding)."
It is not splitting hairs. You just want to put it into the same bag, while the history and theology is frequently different. However, you are right that anybody in generally protestant environment can mix various views, there is no law forbidding it.
Not really, it only takes some education. Reformed churches are the churches linked to the 15th-17th century European reformation - Bohemian, Moravian, German, Swiss, Dutch.
I, personally, am not too familiar with the English/Scottish reformation, so I know basically nothing about it, just some pieces here or there.
Today's evangelical American churches could adopt this or that aspect from the reformation, but are quite different and an average American evangelical hardly ever heard or read some reformed creed or catechism. And is not interested in the works of reformers.
Last edited:
We were all once sinners before we came to Christ. While we were yet without strength Christ died for the ungodly. We certainly should not be unequally yoked with the unbelieving and sinners and agree or join in with them......however we are to show them the same love and mercy that Christ showed to us when we were yet in our sins. Love the sinner, hate their sins.
Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Or are you suggesting we should judge/condemn them as you appear to be doing? The Lord still saves sinners and rescues them out of the mud and mire. But you don't understand salvation since you think it is a ritual.
Let’s walk through our conversation step by step, because you’re flipping the script here.
You started by telling me, “Visit a simple reformed church and you will see what is different.”
I replied that I’ve already been to reformed churches and shared my experience. You came back claiming I must’ve visited the “wrong” ones, implying they weren’t true reformed churches. I pointed out that you used the broadest possible term—“a simple reformed church”—and the churches I visited absolutely fit that category.
Now you’re saying I’m the one lumping everything together, while giving me a lecture on how reformed churches are tied to the 15th-17th century European Reformation (Bohemian, Moravian, German, Swiss, Dutch). In the same breath, you admit you’re not even familiar with the English/Scottish Reformation and know “basically nothing” about it. You also concede that Protestant environments mix various views with no rules against it, and American evangelicals often don’t care about reformed creeds or catechisms.
So let’s rewind. You threw out the vague “visit a simple reformed church” line, which could mean anything from a Dutch Calvinist congregation to an American megachurch with a reformed vibe. You cast the wide net, not me. Now you’re acting like I’m the one confusing things? Come on, man, that’s rich. You’re the one who started with the broad brush and now admit the lines are blurry.
I actually said "You probably mean evangelical churches. Reformed churches are not into dispenstionalism.", because you started talking about these issues.
If you did not start talking about dispensationalism, I would not care what churches you visited. It was just a clarifying note with which you seem to have some kind of conflict. I personally do not care what churches you visit, as I said, attend the ones you like.
You're going in circles again.
Let's flip it: you suggested “Visit a simple reformed church and you will see what is different.”
So, what’s the big difference you see? What should I spot there? Be specific this time—which exact reformed church do you attend, and what are the key differences from Orthodox or Catholic communities?
Without concrete examples, this is just talk. The term “reformed church” is so vague that even you admit it varies by place. Otherwise, we’ll keep arguing over definitions forever.
Honestly, this is is a boring conversation. I will rather wait for something more interesting.
I think that I said quite enough in the first posts about it - for example Mariology, priesthood, complicated ceremonies...
Last edited:
So you’re saying most churches have “tanked,” and you’re the last man standing in your own little bunker?
Similar threads
