Matthew 24:30 may have a significant mistranslation

[NotTheRock]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

 

[marks]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Revelation 1:7 LITV
Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and the ones who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Yes, Amen.

Here is a parallel passage that specifies every eye will see Him, and echoes "all the tribes of the ges"


I use E-Sword, which provides a list of all places in the New Testament that use this word. I find that overwhelmingly this refers to the planet earth. It is frequently used in opposition to "heaven, as in, "heaven and earth".

There are a number of places where the context is pretty clear to me that it refers to the ground, or to a particular land. In this case, I'm looking at the parallel with the Revelation passage along with the pattern of usage.

"All the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven"

"He comes with clouds, and every eye will see Him"

Much love!

 

[jeffweeder]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming

Yes.

Matt 24
22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you [during the great tribulation], ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and they will provide great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones). 25 Listen carefully, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out there, or, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms [of a house],’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly].


35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].

​

 

[NotTheRock]

View attachment 73253

Revelation 1:7 LITV
Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and the ones who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Yes, Amen.

Here is a parallel passage that specifies every eye will see Him, and echoes "all the tribes of the ges"


I use E-Sword, which provides a list of all places in the New Testament that use this word. I find that overwhelmingly this refers to the planet earth. It is frequently used in opposition to "heaven, as in, "heaven and earth".

There are a number of places where the context is pretty clear to me that it refers to the ground, or to a particular land. In this case, I'm looking at the parallel with the Revelation passage along with the pattern of usage.

"All the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven"

"He comes with clouds, and every eye will see Him"

Much love!

Thanks.

 

[ScottA]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

"Every eye will see Him" Revelation 1:7 past, present, and future. Every eye.

But let the reader understand--the qualifying point of this passage is not seeing Him in this world, but "coming with the clouds of heaven", meaning: in the spirit. In other words, when all are spiritually raised up in the resurrection--when the flesh returns to the dust and every element of this world are dissolved--every eye will come before God (--"God with us"). Which is life everlasting to some, and death to some.

 

[Marty fox]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Tribe of the land

 

[NotTheRock]

Interestingly, the YLT uses "world" instead of "land".

Matthew 24:30 YLT
and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

 

[ewq1938]

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn/(koptō), and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail/(koptō) because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[HealthyShape]

The word is "gé" (γῆ) and can mean soil, ground, region, land or earth.

For example:
And go into the land (γῆ) of Israel
Mt 2:20

the land of Sodom
Mt 10:15

I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land.
Lk 4:25

So, it depends on how we interpret the prophecy.

 

[NotTheRock]

The word is "gé" (γῆ) and can mean soil, ground, region, land or earth.

For example:
And go into the land (γῆ) of Israel
Mt 2:20

Or:
the land of Sodom
Mt 10:15

So, it depends on how we interpret the prophecy.

Thank you.

 

[HealthyShape]

I would be careful with saying it means "the planet", because such concept did not exist back then. It's a very modern concept based upon European discoveries/voyages and modern technology.

People in the first century had some vague idea that there are some people living outside of their known world, but I doubt they consciously included them when addressing their audience. When for example Matthew used the word "gé", he did not have the image of a blue rotating planet in his mind, like can be seen from the orbit or from the Moon. For obvious reasons.

 

[Lambano]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

The immediate context in verses 23-29 and especially verse 27 has the purpose of establishing that the future coming of the Son of Man is going to be really, really obvious, more so than "mere" signs and wonders, and totally unambiguous, so accept no substitutes:

23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

So in that context, I think "all the tribes of the earth" captures Jesus's intended meaning.

 

[Lambano]

The immediate context in verses 23-29 and especially verse 27 has the purpose of establishing that the future coming of the Son of Man is going to be really, really obvious, more so than "mere" signs and wonders, and totally unambiguous, so accept no substitutes:

And BTW, this is another reason why I don't accept full Preterism's claim that Christ came back in 70AD. "Obvious not, it was", says Yoda.

 

[HealthyShape]

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Lightnings are not visible over the whole world.

And notice also the verse 28. This verse implies the coming for His elect and to judge Jerusalem was focused, not global.

 

[Lambano]

Lightnings are not visible over the whole world.

And notice also the verse 28. This verse implies the coming for His elect and to judge Jerusalem was focused, not global.

Classic forest-and-trees paradox. What is Jesus trying to say, and how does what He said serve that overall purpose?

 

[HealthyShape]

Classic forest-and-trees paradox. What is Jesus trying to say, and how does what He said serve that overall purpose?

The overall context/purpose of the Olivet discourse is that Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, of Jerusalem/Judea and of His coming and all was supposed to happen in their generation.

Jesus did not use any explicit "planetary" global language. Some of His words are ambiguous and could be seen that way, but do not need to. In any case, lighting is not a thing seen farther than in a specific land/region, so this imagery is not a good argument for the global event.

 

[grafted branch]

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.



Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the people of Jerusalem

This phrase indicates a divine action initiated by God, emphasizing His sovereignty and grace. The "house of David" refers to the royal lineage of King David, highlighting the messianic expectations tied to this family line. Jerusalem, as the spiritual and political center of Israel, represents the entire nation. This outpouring suggests a significant spiritual renewal or revival, reminiscent of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2:17-18). The imagery of pouring out is often associated with abundance and blessing, indicating a transformative event for the people.



I would say “they” that look upon me whom they have pierced and “they” shall mourn for him in Zechariah 12:10, is referring back to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

 

[Davidpt]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Assuming 'ge' could be meaning the land of Israel in Matthew 24:30, why didn't the text come out and say so, like it does in Matthew 2:20, and Matthew 2:21, for example?


Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land(ge) of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Matthew 2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land(ge) of Israel.

 

[HealthyShape]

Assuming 'ge' could be meaning the land of Israel in Matthew 24:30, why didn't the text come out and say so, like it does in Matthew 2:20, and Matthew 2:21, for example?


Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land(ge) of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Matthew 2:21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land(ge) of Israel.

This is a good question and the answer could be that the context is about Jerusalem and Judea, so it was not needed to specify what region is the discourse about.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Seeing as Jesus' return is globally significant, I vote for whole earth! Time and His rteturn will show us for certain.

The word in Greek is "ge" and its normal, usual meaning is ground, dirt, land as oppossed to water. It can mean a nation, but that definition has to be required by the passage. It is a minor translation.