Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord.

[Chrysostomos]

I don't demonize individual "Catholics" as such unless they specifically warrant it, but I do demonize and warn against the institution of the Catholic Church that they belong to.....it's evil,....not of God but of another spirit, and what other spirit is there? And sadly many protestant churches are falling away too in these days. I will warn against Talmudic Judaism too, mixture of bible and Babylon, since there are many Hebrew roots believers who are unequally yoking and linking arms with unbelieving Jews.

Regarding judgment...haven't you read where Paul wrote that we are to judge those inside the church who claim Christ, not those outside? Those inside get tested, corrected, rebuked and reproved........and not welcomed in fellowship if necessary and they meet that criteria. "Form of Godliness but denying the power...from such turn away." If any bring not the same doctrine of Christ the apostles taught, we are not even to wish them godspeed or eat with them. Those "outside", including the Jews, just get the gospel shared and preached to them, in hopes that by our mercy they may receive mercy.

GOD HATES MIXTURE......this is very clear, all through the bible, both old and new testament......and that is what lukewarm is talking about, mixture of hot and cold, holy and profane.......it causes them to be spewed out of His body...kind of a natural consequence. Catholicism is already long ago spewed out at its inception, as concerns those who joined with it....its a mixture of paganism with Christianity, a man-made concoction, not raised up by God..... and it is happening as we speak to the protestant realm that is mixing politics with "religion". I even think mixture might be the abomination of desolation, or at the very least it is what leads to it. Cannot eat of both the table of the Lord and table of idols/demons and cannot serve both God and mammon. To do so means one is not serving God, period.

You’re yet another proof that people can justify their vices with Scripture. You cloak your hypocrisy in the words of the Apostle Paul, but it doesn’t hold up. The trick is, the criteria you use to criticize other Christian denominations somehow conveniently don’t apply to Talmudic Judaism.

You openly admit, “I demonize and warn against the institution of the Catholic Church that they belong to... it’s evil... not of God but of another spirit, and what other spirit is there?”
Yet you don’t even specify what your grievances are. Where are the arguments? Where’s the evidence? Just blanket accusations. With your methods, you could turn an innocent book club into a terrorist syndicate with zero proof.

But when it comes to Talmudic Jews and the secular state of Israel, who by your own tactics could be painted as devils incarnate, you speak with reverence and piety: “we as Christians should have love for the Jews and not sit in judgment over them.”
You even justify Talmudic Jews! This selective double standard is baffling!
One word: hypocrisy.
It’s obvious you love Satanists and hate Christians.

Moreover, the Jews also called Jesus demon-possessed.
His response?
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:31–32).
You’re doing the same thing they did, only now targeting the Catholic Church.

 

[Chrysostomos]

I did not say that the first random reformed or protestant church you would visit will be perfect for you to stay indefinitely. I said to visit a reformed church to see the difference.

Let us just use some common sense, this is artificial arguing about nothing. Do you like being always in some kind of opposition, based on technicalities?

I never said you claimed the first random reformed or Protestant church would be perfect for me to stay in forever.

My point is this: you told me to “visit a reformed church” to see the difference.
Imagine I follow your advice, punch “reformed church” into Google Maps, and walk into the nearest one.
I see a lesbian pastor officiating a gay wedding.

Yeah, I’d see a difference, alright. And you call this an “artificial” argument? I’m genuinely confused why you suggested visiting a “reformed church” without warning that walking into a random one is like strolling through a minefield unless I do serious research first.

 

[Chrysostomos]

There's an important factor that you have failed to consider. There are numerous satanists, murders, child molesters and totally wicked people that have repented and came to the Lord Jesus Christ because someone loved them while they were doing evil. In fact, it's a divine quality for God to do good to those that hate him.

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

It is ignorance of this divine quality that give you the impression that the commands of Jesus were limited to those in the church and not the worldly wicked also

Jesus told us to:

Mt 5:39-41
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Only one totally blinded by his own hate filled paradigm would ignore the fact this obviously applies to all.



OHHH the IRONY.
That a bitter and hateful antisemite such as yourself would accuse someone else of being deceived by an evil spirit. sad really...take your own advice and REPENT.

You claim I’m missing the point, but I’ve accounted for everything. Those who repent and truly accept Jesus Christ as Savior with all their heart are no longer Satanists or sinners—they’re redeemed.

But you’re ignoring that a military enemy remains a military enemy, and a criminal who commits crimes isn’t absolved just because they claim to believe in Jesus.
Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who mouths Christ’s name while committing atrocities—pedophiles, murderers, rapists—should be excused from accountability? That’s absurd.

You lean on Matthew 5:39–41—“turn the other cheek, give your cloak, go the extra mile”—to argue we must love everyone, including the worldly wicked. That’s nonsense.

Look just a bit earlier in the same chapter: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother without cause will be liable to judgment; whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to the fires of hell” (Matthew 5:21–22).

So, Jesus says that someone who is angry with his brother without cause must be judged, and someone who insults his brother with a word deserves the fires of hell, that is, death. But in another place, Jesus says that someone who strikes a brother on the cheek, according to you, requires nothing but to have the other cheek turned to them, be forgiven, and rewarded?
If we accept your interpretation, it makes Jesus contradict Himself—condemning mere insults with hellfire but demanding we reward physical blows with kindness. That’s a contradictory mess.

Start with John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The key is “whoever believes in Him.” Salvation is for believers, not unrepentant rejectors. John 3:18–20 and 3:36 (NIV) are crystal clear: “Whoever does not believe stands condemned already” and “whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” God’s love is an offer, not a free pass for those who spurn Christ.

So how do you leap to claiming Jesus teaches us to love:
- Criminals: pedophiles, murderers, rapists, thieves, swindlers…
- Military enemies
- Satanists: sorcerers, witches, devil-worshippers

That’s absurd. Jesus Himself gives an exception for personal enemies. In Matthew 18:15–17, He says if a brother sins against you and refuses to repent, even after church intervention, “treat them as a pagan or tax collector.”
Tax collectors were despised Roman collaborators, not personal enemies to be loved (Matthew 9:11, Luke 19:7). Jesus allows treating unrepentant believers as outsiders, not requiring kindness. His contemporaries loathed pagans and tax collectors. If even a sinning brother gets cut off, why would Jesus demand love for criminals, enemies, or Satanists under God’s wrath?

Your logic cherry-picks verses to coddle God’s enemies while ignoring His judgment. Calling me a “hateful antisemite” for exposing Talmudic blasphemies (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b) is rich when you defend those who reject Christ but attack Christians who question your narrative.

Woe to you, hypocrites!

 

[Lizbeth]

There's an important factor that you have failed to consider. There are numerous satanists, murders, child molesters and totally wicked people that have repented and came to the Lord Jesus Christ because someone loved them while they were doing evil. In fact, it's a divine quality for God to do good to those that hate him.

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

It is ignorance of this divine quality that give you the impression that the commands of Jesus were limited to those in the church and not the worldly wicked also

Jesus told us to:

Mt 5:39-41
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Only one totally blinded by his own hate filled paradigm would ignore the fact this obviously applies to all.



OHHH the IRONY.
That a bitter and hateful antisemite such as yourself would accuse someone else of being deceived by an evil spirit. sad really...take your own advice and REPENT.

Amen. It is for governments of this world to punish evil doers and crime, not the church. Governments don't bear the sword for nothing, as it says in Romans 13, they are God's arms of judgment (when they are doing their job properly)...........whereas the church has a sword and weapons that are NOT carnal (2 Cor 10:4).....our mandate is not judgment but mercy. (And there can only be mercy in the face of judgment, otherwise mercy is not mercy.)

 

[Lizbeth]

To the trenches sister . Many now sit under the shade of A Harlot .
Having no idea of the death she brings upon them all . very serious and very deadly
is it to sit under a harlot . For within them chambers is naught but death leading all within to the second death .
And that aint even nearly as grave as i could be about this . WE sticking to the scriptures sister . TO CHRIST .
OUR KINGDOM is above , NOT HERE .

Amen brother. It's every bit as deadly as the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that brought death to mankind...fruit of that same Tree.

 

[Lizbeth]

You claim I’m missing the point, but I’ve accounted for everything. Those who repent and truly accept Jesus Christ as Savior with all their heart are no longer Satanists or sinners—they’re redeemed.

But you’re ignoring that a military enemy remains a military enemy, and a criminal who commits crimes isn’t absolved just because they claim to believe in Jesus.
Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who mouths Christ’s name while committing atrocities—pedophiles, murderers, rapists—should be excused from accountability? That’s absurd.

You lean on Matthew 5:39–41—“turn the other cheek, give your cloak, go the extra mile”—to argue we must love everyone, including the worldly wicked. That’s nonsense.

Look just a bit earlier in the same chapter: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother without cause will be liable to judgment; whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to the fires of hell” (Matthew 5:21–22).

So, Jesus says that someone who is angry with his brother without cause must be judged, and someone who insults his brother with a word deserves the fires of hell, that is, death. But in another place, Jesus says that someone who strikes a brother on the cheek, according to you, requires nothing but to have the other cheek turned to them, be forgiven, and rewarded?
If we accept your interpretation, it makes Jesus contradict Himself—condemning mere insults with hellfire but demanding we reward physical blows with kindness. That’s a contradictory mess.

Start with John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” The key is “whoever believes in Him.” Salvation is for believers, not unrepentant rejectors. John 3:18–20 and 3:36 (NIV) are crystal clear: “Whoever does not believe stands condemned already” and “whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.” God’s love is an offer, not a free pass for those who spurn Christ.

So how do you leap to claiming Jesus teaches us to love:
- Criminals: pedophiles, murderers, rapists, thieves, swindlers…
- Military enemies
- Satanists: sorcerers, witches, devil-worshippers

That’s absurd. Jesus Himself gives an exception for personal enemies. In Matthew 18:15–17, He says if a brother sins against you and refuses to repent, even after church intervention, “treat them as a pagan or tax collector.”
Tax collectors were despised Roman collaborators, not personal enemies to be loved (Matthew 9:11, Luke 19:7). Jesus allows treating unrepentant believers as outsiders, not requiring kindness. His contemporaries loathed pagans and tax collectors. If even a sinning brother gets cut off, why would Jesus demand love for criminals, enemies, or Satanists under God’s wrath?

Your logic cherry-picks verses to coddle God’s enemies while ignoring His judgment. Calling me a “hateful antisemite” for exposing Talmudic blasphemies (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b) is rich when you defend those who reject Christ but attack Christians who question your narrative.

Woe to you, hypocrites!

The word needs to be UNDERSTOOD. To treat unrepentant sinners in the church as pagans and tax collectors means to treat and consider them to be outsiders. Pagans were unbelievers and tax collectors were those inside the camp who were shunned because they were extorting from their own people. It doesn't mean to punish and mistreat either group, it just means to not include them in the fellowship, until/unless they repent.

 

[Lizbeth]

You’re yet another proof that people can justify their vices with Scripture. You cloak your hypocrisy in the words of the Apostle Paul, but it doesn’t hold up. The trick is, the criteria you use to criticize other Christian denominations somehow conveniently don’t apply to Talmudic Judaism.

You openly admit, “I demonize and warn against the institution of the Catholic Church that they belong to... it’s evil... not of God but of another spirit, and what other spirit is there?”
Yet you don’t even specify what your grievances are. Where are the arguments? Where’s the evidence? Just blanket accusations. With your methods, you could turn an innocent book club into a terrorist syndicate with zero proof.

But when it comes to Talmudic Jews and the secular state of Israel, who by your own tactics could be painted as devils incarnate, you speak with reverence and piety: “we as Christians should have love for the Jews and not sit in judgment over them.”
You even justify Talmudic Jews! This selective double standard is baffling!
One word: hypocrisy.
It’s obvious you love Satanists and hate Christians.

Moreover, the Jews also called Jesus demon-possessed.
His response?
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:31–32).
You’re doing the same thing they did, only now targeting the Catholic Church.

As I already pointed out there certainly IS a double standard SCRIPTURALLY between those inside the church who claim Christ and those who don't. We don't treat them quite the same.

 

[amigo de christo]

The word needs to be UNDERSTOOD. To treat unrepentant sinners in the church as pagans and tax collectors means to treat and consider them to be outsiders. Pagans were unbelievers and tax collectors were those inside the camp who were shunned because they were extorting from their own people. It doesn't mean to punish and mistreat either group, it just means to not include them in the fellowship, until/unless they repent.

Paul and others knew those in sin had to be corrected and even put out of the church till repentance was made .
Exactly sister .
For the sake that leaven does not grow and leaven .
Satan knows that too .
Its why he invented this judge not correct not . Knowing full well
that to leave unrepentant sinners WITHIN
would leaven the whole lump .
Paul wrote and rebuked them and had them put the man out .
His care for the peoples was clearly seen . Feed my sheep , take care of the churches .
Leaving people in sin IS NOT taking care of the churches or the one in sin .
Its actually a co helper to their own destruction . THERE IS NO love in it .
Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you shall in any way Correct him and NOT allow sin upon him .
Satans version says YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart , SHUT UP and quit juding his sins and leave him alone .
Satans version WILL NOT keep the person in sin safe or the church , IT WILL leaven them up and be their own destruction .

 

[amigo de christo]

As I already pointed out there certainly IS a double standard SCRIPTURALLY between those inside the church who claim Christ and those who don't. We don't treat them quite the same.

Sister all that many now have is naught but an emotional response and love .
What do you honestly think
JESUS and all the apostels would have told the sheep
about false leaders , false doctrine and sins . What to do and etc .
WELL they did .
Only todays version of love , correct , false teachers , false doctrine , false places
IS JUDGE NOT , SHUT UP , HEY WE ALL BELIEVE .
talk about total destruction .
They not only will not warn they are merging us all as one .

 

[Chrysostomos]

As I already pointed out there certainly IS a double standard SCRIPTURALLY between those inside the church who claim Christ and those who don't. We don't treat them quite the same.

Your baseless demonization of Catholics, which you openly admit, is shameful.
You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming the Catholic Church is “not of God but of another spirit,” while excusing Talmudic Jews who blaspheme Christ (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b).

Apostle Paul never taught slandering Christians without proof or blaspheming the Holy Spirit while coddling those who curse Christ. Your hypocrisy is glaring.

Matthew 12:31: “Blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

 

[HealthyShape]

I do not even have stomach to read more than few of the posts here, but this thread got so horrible in calling each other names and accusations that you should all rather stop it and leave and put this thread to sleep.

 

[Chrysostomos]

I do not even have stomach to read more than few of the posts here, but this thread got so horrible in calling each other names and accusations that you should all rather stop it and leave and put this thread to sleep.

So you don’t have the stomach to read this thread because of name-calling and accusations?
Then I guess you’ve never read the Gospels either.
There, the Jews slandered Jesus Christ, blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and called Him demon-possessed (John 8:48). Jesus responded by calling them “hypocrites” and warning them of hellfire.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23)


Are you going to suggest banning the Gospels for the same reason?

 

[HealthyShape]

So you don’t have the stomach to read this thread because of name-calling and accusations?
Then I guess you’ve never read the Gospels either.
There, the Jews slandered Jesus Christ, blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and called Him demon-possessed (John 8:48). Jesus responded by calling them “hypocrites” and warning them of hellfire.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23)


Are you going to suggest banning the Gospels for the same reason?

This is a terrible justification and you should know it. This is post after post for several pages, attacks of one party against another, back and forth.

Anyway, unwatching the thread, decide as you wish.

 

[Chrysostomos]

This is a terrible justification and you should know it. This is post after post for several pages, attacks of one party against another, back and forth.

I don’t need to justify defending the Truth.

 

[Muna]

Your baseless demonization of Catholics, which you openly admit, is shameful.
You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming the Catholic Church is “not of God but of another spirit,” while excusing Talmudic Jews who blaspheme Christ (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b).

Apostle Paul never taught slandering Christians without proof or blaspheming the Holy Spirit while coddling those who curse Christ. Your hypocrisy is glaring.

Matthew 12:31: “Blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

Jesus said,

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme

Paul did the same

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Jesus puts a difference between speaking against himself and speaking against the Holy Ghost here

Matt 12:30 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


Matt 12:31 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Jesus said,

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme

Paul did the same

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Jesus puts a difference between speaking against himself and speaking against the Holy Ghost here

Matt 12:30 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


Matt 12:31 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Have you already answered the question - Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord (2 Chronicles 19:2).

 

[Muna]

Have you already answered the question - Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord (2 Chronicles 19:2).

Are you attempting to pit the scriptures, I responded yesterday to your response.

This is the kindest, most helpful and loving thing to do for the wicked when they do evil

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

There are reprecussions when you hate the LORD, even David despised the LORD here

2 Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

Both had someone elses wife there.

 

[Chrysostomos]

Are you attempting to pit the scriptures, I responded yesterday to your response.

This is the kindest, most helpful and loving thing to do for the wicked when they do evil

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

There are reprecussions when you hate the LORD, even David despised the LORD here

2 Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

Both had someone elses wife there.

Can you express yourself more clearly?
Your response is so vague it could mean anything.
Besides, it doesn’t even address the question I asked: “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord” (2 Chronicles 19:2). You’re answering about “judging” and citing 1 Corinthians 5:13, but that’s not what the question was about.

 

[Muna]

Can you express yourself more clearly?
Your response is so vague it could mean anything.
Besides, it doesn’t even address the question I asked: “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, wrath has gone out against you from the Lord” (2 Chronicles 19:2). You’re answering about “judging” and citing 1 Corinthians 5:13, but that’s not what the question was about.

You think I am not clear, try reading your one verse wonders.

Yeah you bring in helping the wicked there right? Isnt the prophet Jehu calling into question the judgment of a King of Judah forming alliances with the wicked there too?

What should anyone chose, "an alliance with or a non alliance"?

At the church level Paul just says,

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

And if/when they repent bring them back into the fold.

Are you somehow trying to squeeze the U.S or the current president of the U.S (who presides over a very diverse population) into the mold of the King of Judah there? Because David was King when God told him that he himself despised him in his own doings.

Its far more unclear what you are attempting to do by tossing in a single verse, then it is me trying to search you out (as to where you desire to take that verse).

 

[amigo de christo]

Your baseless demonization of Catholics, which you openly admit, is shameful.
You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming the Catholic Church is “not of God but of another spirit,” while excusing Talmudic Jews who blaspheme Christ (Sanhedrin 43a, 107b).

Apostle Paul never taught slandering Christians without proof or blaspheming the Holy Spirit while coddling those who curse Christ. Your hypocrisy is glaring.

Matthew 12:31: “Blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

Falsehoods . You lie and accuse this sister . But she is correct
Let no man , woman or child sit under the RCC .
I say again , i say it out of love for all , LET None sit under ANY leader who leads this people astray .
And sadly that now includes a whole ton of the protestant realm as well .
Warning folks is not demonizing them . Its simply warning them .