Matthew 24:30 may have a significant mistranslation

[Davidpt]

This is a good question and the answer could be that the context is about Jerusalem and Judea, so it was not needed to specify what region is the discourse about.

Yet, the following already proves that 'ge' is not meaning the land of Israel in verse 30.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth(ge) shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

And not this instead

Heaven and the land of Israel shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Verse 35 does not say that only the earth shall pass away, it says both heaven and earth shall pass away. IOW, there is no connection with heaven passing away if ge is meaning the land of Israel in verse 35. Which then begs the question, why are Preterists applying verse 35 to 70 AD to begin with, when 70 AD can't even remotely explain this---heaven shall pass away?

 

[HealthyShape]

Yet, the following already proves that 'ge' is not meaning the land of Israel in verse 30.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth(ge) shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

And not this instead


Heaven and the land of Israel shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I think this is an idiom that is not related to the "gé" before. Heaven and earth meant complete change/transformation, it was not related to specific physical or spiritual area.

 

[marks]

The word is "gé" (γῆ) and can mean soil, ground, region, land or earth.

For example:
And go into the land (γῆ) of Israel
Mt 2:20

the land of Sodom
Mt 10:15

I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land.
Lk 4:25

So, it depends on how we interpret the prophecy.

Those are specified by the context.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

The overall context/purpose of the Olivet discourse is that Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, of Jerusalem/Judea and of His coming and all was supposed to happen in their generation.

Jesus did prophesy the destruction of the Temple, but that was a means to an end, not the end in itself. The Olivet discourse part of a larger discourse warning His followers of the persecution and deception and suffering and dreadful things to come, so that they might remain faithful in hope of the Age to Come. That warning applies to us as well as them. Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[NotTheRock]

And BTW, this is another reason why I don't accept full Preterism's claim that Christ came back in 70AD. "Obvious not, it was", says Yoda.

I'm relatively new to preterism and I'm not necessarily convinced one way or another. But, there are some scriptures that compel me to look closer. Take Hebrews 9:28. This second coming doesn't sound like the end-all of everything but rather a little road trip on behalf of some believers. So maybe Jesus DID return in 70 AD albeit with a limited purpose and will return again in the future. What do you think?

Hebrews 9:28
English Standard Version
28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm relatively new to preterism and I'm not necessarily convinced one way or another. But, there are some scriptures that compel me to look closer. Take Hebrews 9:28. This second coming doesn't sound like the end-all of everything but rather a little road trip on behalf of some believers. So maybe Jesus DID return in 70 AD albeit with a limited purpose and will return again in the future. What do you think?

It contradicts what Hebrews says about the second coming.

There was no coming in AD 70. Jews got destroyed for messing with the Romans, that's it and it wasn't the only time.

Hebrews 9:28
English Standard Version
28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[HealthyShape]

Jesus did prophesy the destruction of the Temple, but that was a means to an end, not the end in itself. The Olivet discourse part of a larger discourse warning His followers of the persecution and deception and suffering and dreadful things to come, so that they might remain faithful in hope of the Age to Come. That warning applies to us as well as them. Forewarned is forearmed.

This is esegesis. Nothing in the text suggests it is meant for any other generation than the original audience. Or that there will be some thousands years long gap between mentioned events or that it is meant to apply to people unknown to them, like in Australia.

 

[HealthyShape]

Those are specified by the context.

Much love!

Of course, that is how languages work.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

Why is this a difficult concept for you? Between TV, computers,.our phones which almost all people own and the ones who don't will get to one to see this event. It will be the #1 news report and so every eye will see Him. He will appear in Jerusalem in like manner as scripture says in Acts 1:9-11:
"Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.

Imagine everyone in Jerusalem stopping everything that they are doing, going outside ... "Hey, you're not gonna believe this, come on ... you have to see this" as your friend, husband or children drag you outside. Tens of thousands of cell phones will be filming it. There are about a million people in Jerusalem. It will immediately be broadcast all over the world. Every eye will see him - obviously not at that moment, but eventually. People will be sleeping in at least 1/3 of the planet; but when they get up and manage to get out and about, the news will be everywhere.
Jesus will spiritually announce His coming and so those who are His sheep will hear His call.

 

[HealthyShape]

Why is this a difficult concept for you? Between TV, computers,.our phones which almost all people own and the ones who don't will get to one to see this event. It will be the #1 news report and so every eye will see Him. He will appear in Jerusalem in like manner as scripture says in Acts 1:9-11:
"Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.

Imagine everyone in Jerusalem stopping everything that they are doing, going outside ... "Hey, you're not gonna believe this, come on ... you have to see this" as your friend, husband or children drag you outside. Tens of thousands of cell phones will be filming it. There are about a million people in Jerusalem. It will immediately be broadcast all over the world. Every eye will see him - obviously not at that moment, but eventually. People will be sleeping in at least 1/3 of the planet; but when they get up and manage to get out and about, the news will be everywhere.
Jesus will spiritually announce His coming and so those who are His sheep will hear His call.

This is all just your imagination.

 

[rwb]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

It only matters to Preterists who need it to be a localized, rather than universal event. Where is the biblical evidence that all the tribes of the land of Israel saw Christ' coming in 70 AD? Since there are no passages to prove Christ returned in 70 AD, the Preterists, although understanding the destruction was literally fulfilled, must then argue Christ did return spiritually. Which is it? That's the main problem with Preterists doctrine, they cling to the literal but argue it meant Christ spiritually returned?

I really fail to understand the doctrine of Full Preterits, and though I can understand some of the doctrine for Partial Preterits, I find even PP that claims only that which literally came against Israel was fulfilled in 70 AD, it makes more sense to me to simply embrace history rather than cause confusion with a doctrine that is not supported biblically by calling yourself a Partial Preterist.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This is all just your imagination.

The scripture is not. You don't have any imagination? Do you have the Holy Spirit? If you don't, ask for Him to help you discern scripture.

People in the first century had some vague idea that there are some people living outside of their known world, but I doubt they consciously included them when addressing their audience. When for example Matthew used the word "gé", he did not have the image of a blue rotating planet in his mind, like can be seen from the orbit or from the Moon. For obvious reasons

Of course they were ignorant to the world. But you seem to think the Word was contrived by man. The whole Bible is inspired by God, God breathed, supernaturally imposed precise thoughts words for the prophets to write down exactly, with His pure thoughts always received without interference, interruption, without human thoughts second guessing it, adding, subtracting, distorting. This is your problem, you don't really believe all that you read. It is if you don't really have faith.

Lightnings are not visible over the whole world

See, no imagination.

 

[Lambano]

So maybe Jesus DID return in 70 AD albeit with a limited purpose and will return again in the future. What do you think?

A local 70AD mini-glorious-appearing-and-rapture? I don't see anything in Josephus or recorded in Church history of that happening. Of course, people disappear during the chaos of a war all the time, and anybody who might've cared enough to keep records might have been raptured themselves. Could happen.

 

[HealthyShape]

The scripture is not. You don't have any imagination? Do you have the Holy Spirit? If you don't, ask for Him to help you discern scripture.

Of course they were ignorant to the world. But you seem to think the Word was contrived by man. The whole Bible is inspired by God, God breathed, supernaturally imposed precise thoughts words for the prophets to write down exactly, with His pure thoughts always received without interference, interruption, without human thoughts second guessing it, adding, subtracting, distorting. This is your problem, you don't really believe all that you read. It is if you don't really have faith.

See, no imagination.

Your imagination is not the Holy Spirit, do not event try to say those two terms close to each other. Stay on the safe side.

 

[Lambano]

This is esegesis.

The Romans, they TRY to ice a Jesus, but Jesus, he no stay iced. On day three, he rise again.

 

[HealthyShape]

The Romans, they TRY to ice a Jesus, but Jesus, he no stay iced. On day three, he rise again.

Sorry, I meant eisegesis.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did Jesus actually say that the "tribes of the WORLD" would see his coming, or only the tribes "of the land" (Israel)?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30 CLNT
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Mankind in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land shall grieve, and they shall see the Son of Mankind coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory.

The scope of His second coming is global and not local because it will result in heaven and earth passing away, so that should tell you how to understand that verse as speaking of the entire planet earth and not just the land of Israel.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Peter also wrote of that day and hour that no one knows which will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night, resulting in the destruction of heaven and earth.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I would be careful with saying it means "the planet", because such concept did not exist back then. It's a very modern concept based upon European discoveries/voyages and modern technology.

People in the first century had some vague idea that there are some people living outside of their known world, but I doubt they consciously included them when addressing their audience. When for example Matthew used the word "gé", he did not have the image of a blue rotating planet in his mind, like can be seen from the orbit or from the Moon. For obvious reasons.

Matthew 24:30 is quoting what Jesus said, not something Matthew said. Do you think Jesus, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, was unaware of people living outside the known world?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lightnings are not visible over the whole world.

And notice also the verse 28. This verse implies the coming for His elect and to judge Jerusalem was focused, not global.

The context of Matthew 24:27 has nothing to do with the scope of Christ's coming (global or local), it has to do with how quickly He will come once He comes. He will come as quickly as lightning flashes from the east to the west.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Your imagination is not the Holy Spirit, do not event try to say those two terms close to each other. Stay on the safe side.

Didn't say it was. I asked you if you had the Holy Spirit. In order to discern scripture, you must commune with the Spirit. Are you born again? To be on the safe side, you must be born again. Your posts lack this discernment wherever I read your posts -- your off and miss the mark.