That's a great point.
Reminds me of the Philippian Jailer.
Acts 16:34 NIV
The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them;
he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.
BINGO
National Salvation - The Ethnē in Biblical Soteriology and Eschatology.
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Reminds me of the Philippian Jailer.
Acts 16:34 NIV
The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them;
he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household.
Lambano
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That one is interesting. On the same line of thought...
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? (1 Corinthians 7:12-16)
9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. (Luke 19:9) If kathati can be properly translated "according as", the sense is "and accordingly, this man is a Son of Abraham". Zacchaeus has been restored to the family of Abraham.
You might want to ask one of the local Mormons (JaneDoe?) about familial salvation. I've got a Mormon aunt and uncle, so maybe I'm covered.
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Yes.
I have a theory that children are protected (saved?) by the faith of their parents.
As long as they live under the same roof. (or maybe by extension too) ???
(again the individualized view of westerners gets in the way)
This is a good example of my theory stated above, and probably was a consideration.
I used to have an LDS neighbor in a duplex we were living in. Fine folks really.
I went to a chili feed at their church. I got some looks while I pigged out on the good chili and chips. - LOL
They had a genealogical library in the lower level around back. (I used to live in the apartment building next door)
One of the church elders shared this scripture with me that I hadn't taken note of before.
1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
Ask them if they have done a proxy baptism for you yet? (1 Corinthians 15:29) See post #23 above.
Lambano
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The children are protected through the faith of their parents IF they are baptized. Otherwise, their souls end up in Limbo; neither in Heaven nor in Hell.
I ran across a book claiming that this belief is the reason behind the practice of infant baptism.
This one takes on a whole new meaning when we focus on "all the nations",
which He separates like sheep from goats. And the chapter inference is for very different
judgments of each group, whether that be sheep from goats or each nation, whether sheep or goat.
Further complicating (or simplifying) they are judged on whether they fed the hungry, quenched the thirsty,
invited the stranger in, clothed the naked, cared for the sick and visited those in prison.
Matthew 25:35-36 NIV
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink,
I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me,
I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
I wasn't infant baptized, but I remember God giving me a profound personal visit at eight years old.
Nations are made up of individuals. Evaluated? Nah.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
The angel proclaiming on earth, the eternal gospel to every nation...
- What is the eternal gospel proclaimed to a nation? (every nation)
- What makes the gospel message a national message?
- To whom is the gospel for a nation given? (the leadership?)
Life after the age of restoration.
All nations coming to worship.
BECAUSE God's "judgements" have been REVEALED.
Psalms 86:9 NIV
All the nations you have made
will come and worship before you, Lord;
they will bring glory to your name.
Psalms 98:2 NIV
The Lord has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.
Still trying to squeeze everyone in God's eternal Kingdom? Ain't gonna happen. Jesus said so.
Brakelite
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In the 1880s an organization called the National Reform Association sought to advance the idea of a theocracy, early Christian nationalism... In the United States. Ellen White in commenting on this wrote in her book The Great Controversy published in 1888, the following...
Anybody can see at a glance that the establishment of the national reform theory of government would be but the establishment of a theocracy. And this is, in fact, what they propose to establish. They say that “a republic thus governed is of him, through the people, and is as really and truly a theocracy as the government of Israel.” A monthly reading of the national W. C. T. U., written by Miss Willard, on God in government, says: “A true theocracy is yet to come, [and] the enthronement of Christ in law and law-makers, hence I pray devoutly, as a Christian patriot, for the ballot in the hands of women.” And in her annual address to the national W. C. T. U. Convention, of 1887, Miss Willard said: “The kingdom of Christ ‘must enter the realm of law through the gateway of politics.... There are enough temperance men in both [the Democratic and Republican parties] to take possession of the government and give us national prohibition in the party of the near future, which is to be the party of God.... We pray heaven to give them no rest ... until they shall ... swear an oath of allegiance to Christ in politics, and March in one great army ‘up to the polls to worship God.’ ... I firmly believe that the patient, steadfast work of Christian women will so react on politics within the next generation that the party of God will be at the front.” Now a man made theocracy is only a scheme of government which puts man in the place of God. That is precisely the theory upon which the papacy was built, and that is just what the papacy is. The national reform theory is identical with that of the papacy; therefore the establishment of the national reform theory in this government will be but the setting up of a living image of the papacy. Advocating, as these parties are, the papal theory, it is not to be wondered at that they are anxious to secure the co-operation of the papacy in carrying their scheme to success. The Christian Statesman is the official organ of the National Reform Association, and in an editorial, December 11, 1884, that paper said: “We cordially, gladly, recognize the fact that in the South American republics, and in France and other European countries, the Roman Catholics are the recognized advocates of national Christianity, and stand opposed to all the proposals of secularism.... whenever they are willing to co-operate in resisting the progress of political atheism, we will gladly join hands with them. In a World’s Conference for the Promotion of National Christianity—which ought to be held at no distant day—many countries could be represented only by Roman Catholics.” And in that same paper, August 31, 1881, Rev. Sylvester Scovel[*] said: “This common interest [“of all religious people in the Sabbath”—Sunday] ought both to strengthen our determination to work, and our readiness to co-operate in every way with our Roman Catholic fellow-citizens. We may be subjected to some rebuffs in our first proffers, and the time is not yet come when the Roman church will consent to strike hands with other churches—as such; but the time has come to make repeated advances, and gladly to accept co-operation in any form in which they may be willing to exhibit it. It is one of the necessities of the situation. The nexus between the two great divisions of Christianity on questions of moral legislation is a thing worthy the consideration of our best minds and our men of largest experience in such affairs.” In perfect accord with this is the encyclical of Pope Leo XIII., 1885, which directs that “all Catholics should do all in their power to cause the constitutions of states, and legislation, to be modeled on the principles of the true church, and all Catholic writers and journalists should never lose sight, for an instant, from the view of the above prescriptions.” Therefore as the purpose of the national reform association is identical with that of rome, it is only to be expected that they should show a readiness to “gladly join hands.” And whenever Protestantism gains control of the civil power, whether with or without the aid of Rome, that will be but to erect an image of the papacy GC88 689.1
All this is powerfully prophetic in light of what is taking place today in the United States and the rise of ecumenism worldwide.
Anybody can see at a glance that the establishment of the national reform theory of government would be but the establishment of a theocracy. And this is, in fact, what they propose to establish. They say that “a republic thus governed is of him, through the people, and is as really and truly a theocracy as the government of Israel.” A monthly reading of the national W. C. T. U., written by Miss Willard, on God in government, says: “A true theocracy is yet to come, [and] the enthronement of Christ in law and law-makers, hence I pray devoutly, as a Christian patriot, for the ballot in the hands of women.” And in her annual address to the national W. C. T. U. Convention, of 1887, Miss Willard said: “The kingdom of Christ ‘must enter the realm of law through the gateway of politics.... There are enough temperance men in both [the Democratic and Republican parties] to take possession of the government and give us national prohibition in the party of the near future, which is to be the party of God.... We pray heaven to give them no rest ... until they shall ... swear an oath of allegiance to Christ in politics, and March in one great army ‘up to the polls to worship God.’ ... I firmly believe that the patient, steadfast work of Christian women will so react on politics within the next generation that the party of God will be at the front.” Now a man made theocracy is only a scheme of government which puts man in the place of God. That is precisely the theory upon which the papacy was built, and that is just what the papacy is. The national reform theory is identical with that of the papacy; therefore the establishment of the national reform theory in this government will be but the setting up of a living image of the papacy. Advocating, as these parties are, the papal theory, it is not to be wondered at that they are anxious to secure the co-operation of the papacy in carrying their scheme to success. The Christian Statesman is the official organ of the National Reform Association, and in an editorial, December 11, 1884, that paper said: “We cordially, gladly, recognize the fact that in the South American republics, and in France and other European countries, the Roman Catholics are the recognized advocates of national Christianity, and stand opposed to all the proposals of secularism.... whenever they are willing to co-operate in resisting the progress of political atheism, we will gladly join hands with them. In a World’s Conference for the Promotion of National Christianity—which ought to be held at no distant day—many countries could be represented only by Roman Catholics.” And in that same paper, August 31, 1881, Rev. Sylvester Scovel[*] said: “This common interest [“of all religious people in the Sabbath”—Sunday] ought both to strengthen our determination to work, and our readiness to co-operate in every way with our Roman Catholic fellow-citizens. We may be subjected to some rebuffs in our first proffers, and the time is not yet come when the Roman church will consent to strike hands with other churches—as such; but the time has come to make repeated advances, and gladly to accept co-operation in any form in which they may be willing to exhibit it. It is one of the necessities of the situation. The nexus between the two great divisions of Christianity on questions of moral legislation is a thing worthy the consideration of our best minds and our men of largest experience in such affairs.” In perfect accord with this is the encyclical of Pope Leo XIII., 1885, which directs that “all Catholics should do all in their power to cause the constitutions of states, and legislation, to be modeled on the principles of the true church, and all Catholic writers and journalists should never lose sight, for an instant, from the view of the above prescriptions.” Therefore as the purpose of the national reform association is identical with that of rome, it is only to be expected that they should show a readiness to “gladly join hands.” And whenever Protestantism gains control of the civil power, whether with or without the aid of Rome, that will be but to erect an image of the papacy GC88 689.1
All this is powerfully prophetic in light of what is taking place today in the United States and the rise of ecumenism worldwide.
I agree there will be a collective judgement on the nations. However, each of us will also be judged individually as well.
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
2 Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Also, if you make a claim to being some sort of leader then you will have an additional judgment on top of that.
Jas 3:1
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
2 Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Also, if you make a claim to being some sort of leader then you will have an additional judgment on top of that.
Jas 3:1
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Working our way through the references in the OP and post #2.
Here Jesus is pictured with a sword of His words going out to smite the nations.
A strong rebuke, no doubt.
The nations, walking (living) by the light of the city.
Bringing the glory and the honor of the nations.
Revelation 21:23 NIV
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it,
for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
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