How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[Muna]

Proverbs 8 is speaking of Wisdom and refers to it as a female
Pro 8:1 - Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?
Pro 8:2 - At the top of the elevated places along the way, at the intersection of the paths she takes her stand;

Pro 8:3 - beside the gates opening into the city, at the entrance of the doorways she cries out:

Christ is also called the wisdom of God, in the Greek its shown as feminine also isnt it?

1 Cr 1:24 Christ the power of God, and the wisdom (Sophia) of God.

 

[Muna]

Like couldnt it be similar to what we might see in the creation of man, for example,

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Which in the natural would consist of male and female in that particular image

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So as the woman (who always existed in the man) was taken out of the man (and manifest) the Word which was always with God
came out from God (and did manifest), sort of like that.

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ

He was hid it says.

Edit typo

 

[RLT63]

Christ is also called the wisdom of God, in the Greek its shown as feminine also isnt it?

1 Cr 1:24 Christ the power of God, and the wisdom (Sophia) of God.

Do you believe Jesus is a created being? He hasn’t coexisted eternally with the Father?

.

“The Lord [Yahweh in the original Hebrew] created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

 

[Muna]

Do you believe Jesus is a created being? He hasn’t coexisted eternally with the Father?

No, why would you ask, I just showed you God creating Adam there not Jesus Christ

Did you not read this verse?

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ

 

[RLT63]

No, why would you ask, I just showed you God creating Adam there not Jesus Christ

Did you not read this verse?

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ

Because whatever Proverbs 8 is speaking of was created
The Lord [Yahweh in the original Hebrew] created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

 

[Muna]

Because whatever Proverbs 8 is speaking of was created
The Lord [Yahweh in the original Hebrew] created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

You could have a point there if we cannot use that which might pertain to Christ before the world ever was, but then how would you recconcile the world itself made Christ and by His wisdom, and by his power when Jesus is all of those.

And how do you even create your own wisdom?

 

[RLT63]

You could have a point there if we cannot use that which might pertain to Christ before the world ever was, but then how would you recconcile the world itself made Christ and by His wisdom, and by his power when Jesus is all of those.

And how do you even create your own wisdom?

He either coexisted eternally with the Father or he was created. You can’t have it both ways. @Aunty Jane and the JWs believe he was created and are using Proverbs 8 as proof.
I believe Jesus coexisted eternally with the Father (John 1) and that Proverbs 8 is speaking of Wisdom

 

[Muna]

He either coexisted eternally with the Father or he was created. You can’t have it both ways. @Aunty Jane and the JWs believe he was created and are using Proverbs 8 as proof.
I believe Jesus coexisted eternally with the Father (John 1) and that Proverbs 8 is speaking of Wisdom

We already know the Word was with God in the beginning (before the world ever was) and that Paul says there is this fellowship of the mystery between them which from the beginning of the world (our world) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

It's saying Jesus Christ was hid,

That God created all things by Christ, and if that be so that means he created man in the image of God who said,

LET US create man in OUR image and proceeding to do so "male and female" (in one, man).

When you look at the wisdom (Sophia) of God its feminine also, even as that rock (Petra) is shown as feminine.

1 Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

Jerem 1:1 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.

Jesus is all of that.

 

[RLT63]

We already know the Word was with God in the beginning (before the world ever was) and that Paul says there is this fellowship of the mystery between them which from the beginning of the world (our world) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

It's saying Jesus Christ was hid,

That God created all things by Christ, and if that be so that means he created man in the image of God who said,

LET US create man in OUR image and proceeding to do so "male and female" (in one, man).

When you look at the wisdom (Sophia) of God its feminine also, even as that rock (Petra) is shown as feminine.

1 Cr 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.

Jerem 1:1 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.

Jesus is all of that.

That’s all good but doesn’t address Proverbs 8. If Proverbs 8 is speaking of Jesus that makes him a created being and contradicts John 1. It also makes him female

 

[Muna]

That’s all good but doesn’t address Proverbs 8. If Proverbs 8 is speaking of Jesus that makes him a created being and contradicts John 1. It also makes him female

Do you really believe that Jesus had a penis or a vagina before he was made flesh?

 

[Muna]

How might we be made in the image of God in the male and female form of things?

 

[RLT63]

Do you really believe that Jesus had a penis or a vagina before he was made flesh?

I believe he has always been the SON of God. Do you believe he was created?
Do you believe Proverbs 8 is speaking of him?

 

[RLT63]

How might we be made in the image of God in the male and female form of things?

How might Jesus have been created?

 

[Muna]

I believe he has always been the SON of God. Do you believe he was created?
Do you believe Proverbs 8 is speaking of him?

No, but I am not strict on the use of things like that when comparing things in the realm of the made

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things
that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


If Proverbs is speaking of mans wisdom, it cannot be Christ, because Christ is the wisdom of God.

 

[Muna]

How might Jesus have been created?

I am not really word phobic in the realm of spiritual comparisons in this way.

 

[Jack]

Those who deny Jesus is God have a different savior than Christians. IOW, no Savior.

 

[RLT63]

I am not really word phobic in the realm of spiritual comparisons in this way.

Do what?

 

[RLT63]

No, but I am not strict on the use of things like that when comparing things in the realm of the made

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things
that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


If Proverbs is speaking of mans wisdom, it cannot be Christ, because Christ is the wisdom of God.

Whatever Proverbs 8 is talking about was created by God.

 

[Muna]

Do what?

How about Psalm 136:5 To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Thats a masculine form of wisdom isnt it?

 

[Muna]

Whatever Proverbs 8 is talking about was created by God.

Okay, so God needed to create this wisdom by which he founded the earth.

Do you know why he would need to do that?

Isnt God wise?