How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[RLT63]

Okay, so God needed to create this wisdom by which he founded the earth.

Do you know why he would need to do that?

Isnt God wise?

I don’t care, I was just saying it can’t be Jesus because Jesus is not a created being and he wasn’t born before there were oceans
.
Pro 8:22 - The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.
Pro 8:23 - From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed.
Pro 8:24 - When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water;

 

[RLT63]

Okay, so God needed to create this wisdom by which he founded the earth.

Do you know why he would need to do that?

Isnt God wise?

It is poetic language speaking about wisdom. It is not literal. Wisdom is not a woman, nor a person

 

[Muna]

I don’t care, I was just saying it can’t be Jesus because Jesus is not a created being and he wasn’t born before there were oceans
.
Pro 8:22 - The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.
Pro 8:23 - From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed.
Pro 8:24 - When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water;

True that before anything existed whatsoever that this appointed wisdom was created from eternity.

Who do you think that is, that cannot be him who shall not be named?

 

[Muna]

It is poetic language speaking about wisdom. It is not literal. Wisdom is not a woman, nor a person

Gotcha.

 

[Muna]

Lets go with poetry.

 

[RLT63]

True that before anything existed whatsoever that this appointed wisdom was created from eternity.

Who do you think that is, that cannot be him who shall not be named?

Wisdom. It’s speaking as if wisdom was a person, it’s poetic language, it is not literal. It’s not some mystery. It’s speaking of wisdom

 

[Muna]

Wisdom. It’s speaking as if wisdom was a person, it’s poetic language, it is not literal. It’s not some mystery. It’s speaking of wisdom

Nothing to see there, I'll move on.

 

[RLT63]

Nothing to see there, I'll move on.

Some scholars and early Church fathers like Origen believe it speaks of Christ but verse 22 that speaks of being created makes this impossible
Arianism, Christian heresy that declared that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. According to the Alexandrian presbyter Arius (4th century), God alone is immutable and self-existent, and the Son is not God but a creature with a beginning.

 

[Jack]

ONLY God is the Creator. He called Himself US and OUR!

Jesus is God the Creator!

Isaiah called Jesus Mighty God!

Your turn Satan's messengers!

 

[Muna]

Some scholars and early Church fathers like Origen believe it speaks of Christ but verse 22 that speaks of being created makes this impossible
Arianism, Christian heresy that declared that Christ is not truly divine but a created being. According to the Alexandrian presbyter Arius (4th century), God alone is immutable and self-existent, and the Son is not God but a creature with a beginning.

Never read any of them, and neither do I know what alot of these isms are that are thrown around.

 

[RLT63]

Never read any of them, and neither do I know what alot of these isms are that are thrown around.

List of heresies against the Trinity



Major Historical Heresies Denying or Distorting the Doctrine of the TrinityThe orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity, as affirmed in creeds like the Nicene Creed (325 AD) and Athanasian Creed, holds that there is one God in three co-equal, co-eternal persons: Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit—distinct yet sharing one divine essence (ousia). Heresies typically err by denying the full deity of one or more persons, the unity of God, or the distinctions between persons. Below is a list of key heresies, with brief explanations, historical figures, and condemnations (primarily from early church councils).

1. Arianism
   • Core Error: Denied the full deity of the Son, teaching He was created by the Father ("There was a time when the Son was not") and subordinate, not co-eternal or consubstantial (homoousios).
   • Key Figure: Arius (c. 256–336 AD), presbyter of Alexandria.
   • Condemnation: First Council of Nicaea (325 AD); later refined at Constantinople (381 AD).
   • Substantiation: Arius appealed to verses like John 14:28 ("The Father is greater than I") but ignored John 1:1 ("The Word was God") and Colossians 2:9.
2. Sabellianism (Modalism or Patripassianism)
   • Core Error: Denied distinctions between the persons, viewing them as mere modes or manifestations of one God (e.g., Father in creation, Son in redemption, Spirit in sanctification). The Father "suffered" on the cross.
   • Key Figure: Sabellius (3rd century); earlier echoes in Noetus and Praxeas.
   • Condemnation: Condemned by Tertullian (c. 213 AD) and synods in Rome (c. 262 AD).
   • Substantiation: Contradicts baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19 (distinct persons) and Jesus' prayer distinguishing Himself from the Father (John 17).
3. Macedonianism (Pneumatomachianism)
   • Core Error: Affirmed deity of Father and Son but denied the Holy Spirit's full deity, calling Him a created being or force subordinate to the Son.
   • Key Figure: Macedonius I, Bishop of Constantinople (d. after 360 AD).
   • Condemnation: First Council of Constantinople (381 AD), which added the Holy Spirit to the Nicene Creed.
   • Substantiation: Ignores Acts 5:3–4 (lying to the Spirit = lying to God) and 1 Corinthians 12:11 (Spirit's personal agency).
4. Tritheism
   • Core Error: Affirmed three persons but denied one essence, positing three separate gods (polytheism).
   • Key Figures: John Philoponus (6th century); some extreme interpretations of Cappadocian Fathers.
   • Condemnation: Implicitly rejected in Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed; explicitly by later theologians like John of Damascus.
   • Substantiation: Violates monotheism in Deuteronomy 6:4 ("The Lord is one") while over-separating persons.
5. Adoptionism (Dynamic Monarchianism)
   • Core Error: Jesus was a mere man adopted as Son of God at baptism (or resurrection), not eternally divine.
   • Key Figures: Theodotus of Byzantium (2nd century); Paul of Samosata (3rd century).
   • Condemnation: Synods in Antioch (268 AD) and Rome.
   • Substantiation: Contradicts pre-existence in John 1:1–14 and Philippians 2:6–7 (eternal form of God).
6. Docetism
   • Core Error: Denied the true humanity of Christ (Son appeared human but was not), undermining the incarnation and thus Trinitarian relations.
   • Key Figures: Associated with Gnosticism; Marcion (2nd century).
   • Condemnation: Condemned in 1 John 4:2–3 and by Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD).
   • Substantiation: Rejects John 1:14 ("Word became flesh") and the need for real atonement.
7. Subordinationism (Broad Category, Overlaps with Arianism)
   • Core Error: Eternal hierarchy where Son and Spirit are subordinate in essence, not just role.
   • Key Figures: Origen (c. 185–254 AD, in some interpretations); some pre-Nicene fathers.
   • Condemnation: Nicaea (325 AD) via "homoousios."
   • Substantiation: Misapplies economic subordination (e.g., 1 Corinthians 15:28) to ontology.

These heresies arose mainly in the 2nd–5th centuries amid debates over Scripture and Greek philosophy. Modern groups like Jehovah's Witnesses (Arian-like), Oneness Pentecostals (Modalist), and some Unitarians echo these. For deeper study, consult primary sources like Athanasius' On the Incarnation or the Nicene Creed text.
Source : Grok

 

[Muna]

List of heresies against the Trinity



Major Historical Heresies Denying or Distorting the Doctrine of the TrinityThe orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity, as affirmed in creeds like the Nicene Creed (325 AD) and Athanasian Creed, holds that there is one God in three co-equal, co-eternal persons: Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit—distinct yet sharing one divine essence (ousia). Heresies typically err by denying the full deity of one or more persons, the unity of God, or the distinctions between persons. Below is a list of key heresies, with brief explanations, historical figures, and condemnations (primarily from early church councils).

1. Arianism
   • Core Error: Denied the full deity of the Son, teaching He was created by the Father ("There was a time when the Son was not") and subordinate, not co-eternal or consubstantial (homoousios).
   • Key Figure: Arius (c. 256–336 AD), presbyter of Alexandria.
   • Condemnation: First Council of Nicaea (325 AD); later refined at Constantinople (381 AD).
   • Substantiation: Arius appealed to verses like John 14:28 ("The Father is greater than I") but ignored John 1:1 ("The Word was God") and Colossians 2:9.
2. Sabellianism (Modalism or Patripassianism)
   • Core Error: Denied distinctions between the persons, viewing them as mere modes or manifestations of one God (e.g., Father in creation, Son in redemption, Spirit in sanctification). The Father "suffered" on the cross.
   • Key Figure: Sabellius (3rd century); earlier echoes in Noetus and Praxeas.
   • Condemnation: Condemned by Tertullian (c. 213 AD) and synods in Rome (c. 262 AD).
   • Substantiation: Contradicts baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19 (distinct persons) and Jesus' prayer distinguishing Himself from the Father (John 17).
3. Macedonianism (Pneumatomachianism)
   • Core Error: Affirmed deity of Father and Son but denied the Holy Spirit's full deity, calling Him a created being or force subordinate to the Son.
   • Key Figure: Macedonius I, Bishop of Constantinople (d. after 360 AD).
   • Condemnation: First Council of Constantinople (381 AD), which added the Holy Spirit to the Nicene Creed.
   • Substantiation: Ignores Acts 5:3–4 (lying to the Spirit = lying to God) and 1 Corinthians 12:11 (Spirit's personal agency).
4. Tritheism
   • Core Error: Affirmed three persons but denied one essence, positing three separate gods (polytheism).
   • Key Figures: John Philoponus (6th century); some extreme interpretations of Cappadocian Fathers.
   • Condemnation: Implicitly rejected in Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed; explicitly by later theologians like John of Damascus.
   • Substantiation: Violates monotheism in Deuteronomy 6:4 ("The Lord is one") while over-separating persons.
5. Adoptionism (Dynamic Monarchianism)
   • Core Error: Jesus was a mere man adopted as Son of God at baptism (or resurrection), not eternally divine.
   • Key Figures: Theodotus of Byzantium (2nd century); Paul of Samosata (3rd century).
   • Condemnation: Synods in Antioch (268 AD) and Rome.
   • Substantiation: Contradicts pre-existence in John 1:1–14 and Philippians 2:6–7 (eternal form of God).
6. Docetism
   • Core Error: Denied the true humanity of Christ (Son appeared human but was not), undermining the incarnation and thus Trinitarian relations.
   • Key Figures: Associated with Gnosticism; Marcion (2nd century).
   • Condemnation: Condemned in 1 John 4:2–3 and by Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD).
   • Substantiation: Rejects John 1:14 ("Word became flesh") and the need for real atonement.
7. Subordinationism (Broad Category, Overlaps with Arianism)
   • Core Error: Eternal hierarchy where Son and Spirit are subordinate in essence, not just role.
   • Key Figures: Origen (c. 185–254 AD, in some interpretations); some pre-Nicene fathers.
   • Condemnation: Nicaea (325 AD) via "homoousios."
   • Substantiation: Misapplies economic subordination (e.g., 1 Corinthians 15:28) to ontology.

These heresies arose mainly in the 2nd–5th centuries amid debates over Scripture and Greek philosophy. Modern groups like Jehovah's Witnesses (Arian-like), Oneness Pentecostals (Modalist), and some Unitarians echo these. For deeper study, consult primary sources like Athanasius' On the Incarnation or the Nicene Creed text.
Source : Grok

I had made a quick search for such a list of them just for kicks, and was fed a list that was crazy long,

I thought, I'm not digging through this, this had more isms than a common dictionary had entries, but I did glance through a few and got a laugh at what was thrown in the heretic pile though.

 

[Jack]

I had made a quick search for such a list of them just for kicks, and was fed a list that was crazy long,

I thought, I'm not digging through this, this had more isms than a common dictionary had entries, but I did glance through a few and got a laugh at what was thrown in the heretic pile though.

The "heretic pile" would be those who deny Jesus God, and everlasting Hell Fire, leading people to Hell!

 

[HealthyShape]

That's because it doesn't exist in Scripture. God's telling us that when man tries to put in symbol what does not exist in His Kingdom.
Tritheism is paganism.

Tritheism is three Gods. One God with three distinct persons (which is what the shield presents) is not tritheism.

Scriptures say:
a) There is one God
b) The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God
c) All of them are distinct persons with separate actions (like one sending another, one talking to another...)

Which establishes Trinity.

 

[Muna]

Here is the one I don't understand its called, anthropomorphism.

Why is that somehow evil?

 

[RLT63]

I had made a quick search for such a list of them just for kicks, and was fed a list that was crazy long,

I thought, I'm not digging through this, this had more isms than a common dictionary had entries, but I did glance through a few and got a laugh at what was thrown in the heretic pile though.

A lot of people argue over things that when you break down you find their beliefs aren’t all that different.
Some differences aren’t reconcilable though

 

[Muna]

Here is the one I don't understand its called, anthropomorphism.

Why is that somehow evil?

Sorry, I didnt give the definition, which is the attribution of human characteristics, including a soul, to God. This is often criticized in certain theological traditions.

Showing just a few in contrast in some places

For example,

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul (nephesh) hateth.

The LORD speaking of Jesus (separating in the next the mention of his soul from his spirit)

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

 

[Muna]

A lot of people argue over things that when you break down you find their beliefs aren’t all that different.
Some differences aren’t reconcilable though

Men can make lists of condemnations that God does not condemn too, like they might make a man an offender over words but I don't see Him doing that as men do.

 

[RLT63]

Here is the one I don't understand its called, anthropomorphism.

Why is that somehow evil?

That is just the attribution of human characteristics or behavior to God, like if you said God holds you in his arms, or where the Bible says God repented. I’m not familiar with that as a heresy

 

[Muna]

That is just the attribution of human characteristics or behavior to God, like if you said God holds you in his arms, or where the Bible says God repented. I’m not familiar with that as a heresy

I got this, anthropomorphism is a formal declaration of condemnation

Attributing human qualities, such as a soul, to God, as it holds that God transcends human understanding and cannot be fully described by human concepts, including the idea of a soul.

And yet it mentions his soul in the scripture so that is bs.