No future hope for Israel in the Bible

[Chrysostomos]

I'm standing up for Israel and its Jews, who continue to be the most persecuted segment of humanity in human history.

How does history view those who have persecuted Israel? You're entirely in the wrong.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1988069071607525569

The case of Patrick McClintock is a telling precedent. It’s a warning for all Americans to understand that this will happen to everyone. Anyone who says something that doesn’t sit well with Jews will be thrown in jail and then "canceled," including potential expulsion from university and job prospects ruined, where each will be labeled an "antisemitic piece of shit."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1988322345363059001

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes, I can.
Like it or not, I’ve done it, I’m doing it, and I’ll keep doing it.
Deal with it.

No, you can´t. You will end up either being ignored by so many people that you will have monologues only with yourself or you will get banned.

 

[Chrysostomos]

I'm standing up for Israel and its Jews, who continue to be the most persecuted segment of humanity in human history.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1988357513620975861

First, consider the inconsistency in reaction. Public figures like Dave Portnoy, who is Jewish, have historically engaged in or tolerated a wide range of offensive humor without similar outrage. Jokes targeting other groups—whether racial, ethnic, or religious—often don’t provoke the same legal or social backlash.


For instance, the N-word has been used casually in some circles, including by Portnoy himself, without leading to arrests or widespread condemnation. Yet, when Patrick McClintock shouted "F*** the Jews" and threw coins, it resulted in an immediate arrest for disturbing the peace, with authorities now considering hate crime charges.

This disparity in response is a clear double standard.


Second, Any critique of Jewish actions or policies, especially regarding Israel, is quickly labeled antisemitic, shutting down debate.

Meanwhile, actions by Jews in Israel, such as spitting on Christians or discriminatory practices against Palestinians, are met with little outrage or legal consequence. For example, in Jerusalem, Christians report regular harassment, including physical assaults, yet these incidents rarely lead to arrests or public shaming.

This selective outrage highlights a profound hypocrisy.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1980229146862322150

 

[Chrysostomos]

I'm standing up for Israel and its Jews, who continue to be the most persecuted segment of humanity in human history.

Why is the World Silent About the Largest Genocide of Christians in History?

Everyone knows about the Holocaust. Six million victims, the systematic extermination of Jews by the Nazi regime, have become a symbol of horror and a reminder to humanity of the evil that totalitarianism can bring. However, few talk about another genocide, perhaps even more massive, that took...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Chrysostomos]

I'm standing up for Israel and its Jews, who continue to be the most persecuted segment of humanity in human history.

There is information that you won't hear on TV or read in newspapers. It is mainly passed on by word of mouth within a close-knit circle of trusted people. In the USSR, this had clear boundaries. Everyone played their role in public and said what needed to be said. But when they gathered in kitchens, in a narrow circle of close friends, they spoke what they really thought.

I remember the church conversations of my grandparents' generation. They had a clear understanding of the history of the 20th century. Their understanding of 20th-century history sounds like this: "The HOLOCAUST was God's retribution against those who called themselves Jews (but were not truly so, but rather the synagogue of Satan), for the persecution of Christians since 1917, and especially for 1937-38. World War II and the subsequent disasters that befell the USSR were also God's punishment. But this doesn't mean that Hitler was good; it's just that God uses one set of evildoers to punish another. God's punishment, as it is written in Scripture: 'For lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation' (Habakkuk 1:6)."

A short time after World War II, during the mass exodus of the synagogue of Satan from the USSR to Israel, which began significantly in the 1970s following the lifting of emigration restrictions, many said that if they left for Israel, the USSR would collapse. And that's exactly what happened. The USSR collapsed, and Christians, Muslims, and other religions gained freedom. Even those who were far from religion understood this connection.

Now, many in Russia and Ukraine still understand this connection and fear that Israel might disappear and that this entire synagogue of Satan might return. We hope that all of Israel moves to the USA, because they love this synagogue of Satan there, and the economy is better there, and everything is generally better.

The only problem is that this synagogue of Satan will strive to repeat the genocide of Christians and ban all religions except Satanism, and they will do this as soon as they can.

Maybe then something will finally get through to Americans, something that is as obvious to all Christians in the post-Soviet space as daylight.

 

[Davy]

We are called to follow Jesus Christ, to shine light into the world by exposing the children of Satan and the lies spewing from their blasphemous mouths.
Light has no fellowship with darkness (2 Corinthians 6:14).
The “love” you preach isn’t Christ’s teaching—it’s the soft, spineless gospel of Leo Tolstoy, not Jesus.
Christ didn’t coddle deceivers; He called them out.

Thing is though, you do not really know just who the children of Satan are.

When Jesus revealed the existence of the "synagogue of Satan" per Rev.2 & 3, He was pointing to those who only SAY they are Jews, but are not, and are the "synagogue of Satan". That is NOT about the literal seed of Israel's Jews of any of the tribes of Israel. It instead is about the 'crept in unawares' OF FOREIGNERS that became... religious Jews throughout Israel's history. They represent the "tares" in Lord Jesus' Matthew 13 parable of the tares of the field.

And the scribes of Israel were foreigners of the Kenites per 1 Chronicles 2:55, a people of the nations of Canaan. That's who the truly guilty ones were at Christ's 1st coming that had Him crucified, and urged on the rest of the people to agree.

This is about the "mystery of iniquity", and God first revealed the hint of it in Genesis 3:15 when He mentioned having put enmity between the two seeds.

Those who instead think all Israelites are Jews, and that there's no hope for the unbelieving Jews born of true Israel, reject what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about the blinded Jews, that those in Christ are NOT to be conceited against them, because when the fullness of the Gentile comes in, God is going to remove the spirit of stupor blindness away from The Gospel that He put upon those Jews. Then they will believe and be saved. So Paul said judge nothing before the time. And anyone who claims to be a Christian that rejects what Apostle Paul said about that show they instead side with Nazi thinking against Jews.

 

[NotTheRock]

This thread is example A#1 why threads and posts about how Israel isn't biblical Israel should be verboten! It's a magnet for anti-Semites who defile this community with their disgusting, Satanic, ideology. I strongly encourage management to ban that topic and to nuke this thread.

@Angelina
@lforrest

 

[HealthyShape]

We can see where does any extremism lead - one side is willing to attack Christians who are not against Israel, one side is willing to attack Christians who are not pro-Israel.

Hopefully, most people and most Christians are moderate/balanced/careful regarding complex political situations like in the Middle East.

 

[kdx]

because when the fullness of the Gentile comes in, God is going to remove the spirit of stupor blindness away from The Gospel that He put upon those Jews. Then they will believe and be saved.

Where does the Bible say that?

 

[Davy]

Where does the Bibel say that?

I already showed it was said by Apostle Paul in Romans 11. Try reading the whole... chapter instead of doing a pic'n'choose of verses.

 

[kdx]

I already showed it was said by Apostle Paul in Romans 11. Try reading the whole... chapter instead of doing a pic'n'choose of verses.

I do read the whole. I still do not see. Where does Paul say that after the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, Israel will be saved?

 

[kdx]

This thread is example A#1 why threads and posts about how Israel isn't biblical Israel should be verboten! It's a magnet for anti-Semites who defile this community with their disgusting, Satanic, ideology. I strongly encourage management to ban that topic and to nuke this thread.

You keep on attacking us as being anti-semite Satanists, even after several requests of us for you to define the term, which, as far as I can see, you still did not do. I reported you now.

All we say is that ethnic Israel has no special part in Bible prophecy today. They are being dealt with equally with the rest. They are not anyhow more special than we, the Gentiles. If they believe in Christ, they will be saved, as will anyone else. But you are the one who keeps on pushing racial superiority to the Jews. I hope the moderators see that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Abraham, has many sons. Abraham is the father of all who have faith in Christ.
Paul in Romans 4 speaks to gentile believers and tells them, Abraham is their father.
Becoming a child of the family of God for either Jew or Gentile is only by faith, not by natural birth, not by race or genes or descendants, not by family history, not by national identity, not by Jewishness.

Since Abraham is our Father, we are of the Israel of God.

John 1

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 8

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4 - New King James Version

Abraham Justified by Faith - What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for...

www.biblegateway.com

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth​

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Abraham Justified Before Circumcision​

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

The Promise Granted Through Faith​

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

 

[Chrysostomos]

hey are not anyhow more special than we, the Gentiles.

This is post #108 from the topic "Do you really believe modern Israelis are direct descendants of those "lost" northern tribes scattered by Assyria 2,700 years ago?"

Meanwhile, here I am in the US, constantly labeled a “pagan” by Christian Zionists. At first, it shocked me—it felt like an insult.
Why am I a pagan? My parents are believers. My grandparents, even under Soviet oppression, were devout. My grandmother hand-copied the Gospels into school notebooks and distributed them, risking 3 to 10 years in prison under Soviet laws like Article 70 (“anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda”) and Article 190-1 (“spreading knowingly false fabrications”). Printing or sharing the Bible was banned, yet she did it anyway, facing potential arrest and property confiscation.

My great-grandparents were Orthodox Christians too. As far back as I can trace my family, we’ve been faithful Orthodox Christians.
And yet, Christian Zionists in the US call me a pagan. Why? For what?
At the same time, those 2 million repatriants from Ukraine—many of whom remain atheists—are suddenly not pagans, but Jews?
This is absurd.
How does this double standard make any sense?

2 million Soviet repatriants? Half their DNA is European—same as Russians, Poles, Ukrainians (Rootsi et al., 2013; Behar, 2010).

Why do you call 2000-year-old Christian nations—like Armenians or Greeks—“pagan,” but some guy in Ukraine who buys a “Jewish roots” certificate is instantly a “Jew”?
Where’s the logic?

 

[shepherdsword]

Hello,

I want to present the most strong and undeniable argument that makes it absolutely impossible for any prophecy to take place regarding “Israel” in the Bible. I know that there were many fine Christians in history who held such a doctrine, even today all those who are called dispensationalists. But now let me give you the argument. It is this:

Israel, as defined by the Bible (and this is the most important thing of all), doesn’t exist anymore.

You are in error. Look at the map. There Israel is. Better yet, look at the scriptures:
Jer 33:24-26
Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus saith the Lord; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Israel, the nation Israel we know about in the Old and New Testament, was created by God making a covenant with the people who came out of Egypt at Mount Sinai. This was the old covenant. This covenant doesn’t exist anymore, it is replaced by the new covenant. Therefore this Israel doesn’t exist anymore. Therefore, there are no prophecies left regarding this Israel.

This has could not have been fulfilled with the return from Babylon
Am 9:14-15
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Why? Because they WERE rooted out by the Romans. This means it refers to another return. Which we see now.

And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.

Prove me wrong, if you can.

Kind regards and God bless.

They will be received again.

Ro 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Once the time of the fullness of the gentiles is fulfilled they will be chastened and judged. All who remain will be saved

Ro 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[Scott Downey]

You are in error. Look at the map. There Israel is. Better yet, look at the scriptures:
Jer 33:24-26
Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus saith the Lord; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.


This has could not have been fulfilled with the return from Babylon
Am 9:14-15
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Why? Because they WERE rooted out by the Romans. This means it refers to another return. Which we see now.

And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.

They will be received again.

Ro 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Once the time of the fullness of the gentiles is fulfilled they will be chastened and judged. All who remain will be saved

Ro 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Your interpreting all of that though the Scofield dispensational view started in the last century, a modern ideology, not the historic view of the church for millennia.

 

[Scott Downey]

See, using AMOS the prophet is not a good example to claim Israel as a nation in 1948!
Amos, was way before, and Amos has nothing to do with Israel today
God brought Israel back to the land and finally dispersed them into the nations by the Romans

Was Amos before the babylonian and assyrian captivity

Yes—Amos prophesied before both the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.

Timeline Placement​

• Amos’s ministry: Around 760–755 BCE, during the reign of Jeroboam II (Northern Kingdom of Israel) and Uzziah (Southern Kingdom of Judah).
• Assyrian captivity: The Northern Kingdom (Israel) was conquered by Assyria in 722 BCE, about a generation after Amos.
• Babylonian captivity: The Southern Kingdom (Judah) fell to Babylon in 586 BCE, nearly 170 years after Amos.

Amos’s Role​

• Amos warned Israel of coming judgment due to idolatry, injustice, and complacency.
• His prophecies anticipated the Assyrian conquest, though he did not name Assyria directly.
• He was one of the earliest writing prophets, laying the foundation for later voices like Hosea, Isaiah, and Jeremiah.

Summary​

• Amos lived and spoke before both captivities.
• His warnings were fulfilled first in the Assyrian exile of Israel, and his themes of justice and covenant faithfulness echoed into the Babylonian exile of Judah.

 

[shepherdsword]

Your interpreting all of that though the Scofield dispensational view started in the last century, a modern ideology, not the historic view of the church for millennia.

Is that all you have? A baseless accusation based on your errant assumption that I am a dispensationist? I am a HISTORIC pre-millennialist. A view held by many founding fathers:

1. Papias of Hierapolis (c. 60–130)

Often cited as the earliest known premillennialist.

2. Justin Martyr (c. 100–165)

He clearly affirms premillennialism in Dialogue with Trypho.

3. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130–202)

A major defender of chiliasm in Against Heresies.

4. Tertullian (c. 155–240)

Strongly affirmed a literal millennium.

5. Lactantius (c. 250–325)

Gives a detailed premillennial description in Divine Institutes.

6. Melito of Sardis (2nd century)

Often understood as premillennial based on fragmentary evidence.

7. Commodianus (3rd century)

Explicitly premillennial in Instructions.

8. Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170–235)

Premillennial in his eschatological writings.

9. Methodius of Olympus (d. 311)

Interpreted Revelation in a premillennial way

Try rebutting the scriptures instead of some ad- hominin strawman.

 

[Scott Downey]

 

[Scott Downey]

A discussion about these things on X

https://x.com/RealCandaceO/status/1936058146646069528