Is it possible to lose salvation?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ProverbsInPink

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2025
1,268
1,063
113
Mansford
www.cgi.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.. did anyone force you to be saved ? was a gun held to your head that forced you to pray? that's free will the holy spirit draws you not forces
In the context of the Salvation Principle we're told we can't understand that call unless or until God,the Holy Spirit,enters our consciousness so that we can then understand His calling.

That isn't reiterating our free will when God says we cannot choose Him,understand the Gospel,unless he changes our mind that otherwise can't understand and also finds the things of God to be foolishness.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
3,017
1,454
113
64
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
In the context of the Salvation Principle we're told we can't understand that call unless or until God,the Holy Spirit,enters our consciousness so that we can then understand His calling.

That isn't reiterating our free will when God says we cannot choose Him,understand the Gospel,unless he changes our mind that otherwise can't understand and also finds the things of God to be foolishness.
i have read lots of Calvinist theories when God calls us we either say yes or no

Proverbs 1:24-26


King James Version


24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

ProverbsInPink

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2025
1,268
1,063
113
Mansford
www.cgi.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
i have read lots of Calvinist theories when God calls us we either say yes or no

Proverbs 1:24-26​

King James Version​

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
I'm not a Calvinist.

It's a shame that charge is parroted here so often.
It actually tells those accused that their accuser is exactly what the Bible says of them.

So,thanks.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
3,017
1,454
113
64
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I'm not a Calvinist.

It's a shame that charge is parroted here so often.
It actually tells those accused that their accuser is exactly what the Bible says of them.

So,thanks.
lol your Calvinist your beliefs are 199% reformed theology aka Calvinism
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

ProverbsInPink

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2025
1,268
1,063
113
Mansford
www.cgi.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
I am tired of Roman Catholic evasions on the medical subject of virginity.
The RCC hides pedophile priests. Move the ones who have racked up victims into new unsuspecting parishes so new victims can be made.

The church insisting Mary was a perpetual virgin is stupidity. Though consistent with centuries of blaspheming God's true word.
Enabling Pedophilia, Mariology, Idolatry,Necromancy, on and on.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
3,017
1,454
113
64
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You've got a lot of nerve calling me a liar .

Here,you can't fake knowing God's word. Calling people liars doesn't mask that fact. It only highlights it.
look for a long time i was in a carm forum . i debated with hard core Calvinist i have been called all kinds things.. been told the EXACT doctrine your posting . if i ruffled your feathers im sorry ..but every thing you post comes straight from Calvinist belief. if your not Calvinist aka reformed theology. then you need post something different . i know Calvinism when i read it ..for several months i done email correspondence with a man who was Calvinist. he emailed me his scriptures his beliefs on the scripture . he finally gave up after he seen he couldn't convert me over .

if your not Calvinist aka reformed theology ..you best be studying your bible a bit more close. if it walks like a duck looks like a duck quack likes a duck.. its a duck , i hold to free will thus i will post freewill. and yes that makes me a freewiller.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

ProverbsInPink

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2025
1,268
1,063
113
Mansford
www.cgi.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
look for a long time i was in a carm forum . i debated with hard core Calvinist i have been called all kinds things.. been told the EXACT doctrine your posting . if i ruffled your feathers im sorry ..but every thing you post comes straight from Calvinist belief. if your not Calvinist aka reformed theology. then you need post something different . i know Calvinism when i read it ..for several months i done email correspondence with a man who was Calvinist. he emailed me his scriptures his beliefs on the scripture . he finally gave up after he seen he couldn't convert me over .

if your not Calvinist aka reformed theology ..you best be studying your bible a bit more close. if it walks like a duck looks like a duck quack likes a duck.. its a duck , i hold to free will thus i will post freewill. and yes that makes me a freewiller.
I'm not a Calvinist.
I'll never stop believing God's word because ignorant aggressive people claim I am.

Freewiller,is a ridiculous term.

The aggressive hateful people here who attack Christians for defending what is written in the Bible aren't setting a good example of the well read believer.

Just the opposite in fact.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,513
4,790
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Again, repeating things and ignoring the responses you've been given doesn't make those things suddenly true. As was discussed previously, grammatically the best reading is that there are three people identified in John 19:25. The author of John 19 uses the word "kai" between each person he identifies in that passage. "Mary the wife of Clopas" is functioning to describe the person identified as Mary's "sister."

As for God not being the author of confusion, same thing, discussed and answer went unrebutted. The problem isn't God - its modernists' attempt, like yours, to ignore actual Koine usage of the day, the testimony of Scripture, and the historical record.
Well I have three grammatic sources for Koine to refer to. I use Scripture and the historic record.

There were four as all transdlators concurred when they added the comma after sister then adding Mary the wife of clophas. If the translators wanted it to be the cousin of Mary, they would have placed the comma after Mary, and not after sister. Then wife of clophas would be the descriptive of the wife of cleop0has and not of Marys "sister". And you have yet to establish by anything more than possibility using OT scriptures that sister and brother mean cousin or second tier relatives in the NT.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,513
4,790
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
A year of Greek and Hebrew! Explains a lot. Just enough to get some hubris, nowhere near enough to know the languages, as all the evangelical seminarians I've ever known liked to crack.How much language training do you have? It doesn't make me an expert but gave me the tools to follow those who are with greater understanding than most. So how much Greek did you personally and formally study.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,513
4,790
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
This is confused. The point stands whether the beloved disciple was John or someone else. Jesus, omniscient, wouldn't have given his mother to an adopted son for life if Jesus had other biological brothers, soon to be leaders of the church, who would be there to care for her (and legally obligated to do so).
Yes standard law calls for the eldest son to pass on His widowed mother to the next in line, but it also demands for a kinsman redeemer to come forth to care for the widow! According to your hypothesis there were four nephews of Mary who would have been bound to act as kinsman redeemer.

But Jesus also has the privilege of passing Mary on to whom He wished. All the disciples who became leaders eventually were martyred or fled for their lives. Jesus being omniscient wqould know this and send off His mom to someone who had a stable home.
This does not make any sense, grammatically or textually.

Grammatically, the perfect tense generally would speak to past and present state of affairs without necessary regard to the future ("I have not known man/a man."). The use of the present tense here, however, speaks to all three. In Daniel Wallace's work (evangelical Greek scholar), in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, the "customary (habitual or general) present" tense - a "quite common" usage, he notes - speaks of an "ongoing state," meaning the action was true in the past, is true in the present, and will remain true in the future. Luke 18:12 is another example of this, where the Pharisee says that he "fasts" (present active indicative, just like Mary's response to Gabriel) twice a week, meaning he did so in the past, is currently doing so, and intends to do so in the future - its his custom or practice.
Daniel Wallace needs work.

I know:

Speech:Verb
Tense:Present
Voice:Active
Mood:Indicative
Person:1st Person
Number:Singular
Definition of "Present"
Represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present.

Now look at this verse:
Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. "He hath perfected:

Speech:Verb
Tense:Perfect
Voice:Active
Mood:Indicative
Person:3rd Person
Number:Singular
Definition of "Perfect"
In Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI ("It is finished!") is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely "It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time." Certain antiquated verb forms in Greek, such as those related to seeing (eidw) or knowing (oida) will use the perfect tense in a manner equivalent to the normal past tense. These few cases are exception to the normal rule and do not alter the normal connotation of the perfect tense stated above.

You either mixed up Wallaces definitions or he doesn't know Greek well. Mary if she spoke of staying a virgin would have used the perfect! And the mood would have probably been subjunctive meaning it continues on.
 

Ezra

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2018
3,017
1,454
113
64
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I'm not a Calvinist.
I'll never stop believing God's word because ignorant aggressive people claim I am.

Freewiller,is a ridiculous term.

The aggressive hateful people here who attack Christians for defending what is written in the Bible aren't setting a good example of the well read believer.

Just the opposite in fact.
lets use your words ( The aggressive hateful people here who attack Christians for defending what is written in the Bible aren't setting a good example of the well read believer.) no one is attacking you no one called you ignorant i sure aint.. you might want tuck your feelings in so they dont get stepped on.

here is the issue you say your not a Calvinist. ok ill give you that....... But how ever all your replies are Calvinist doctrine ,, that is the truth


Freewiller,is a ridiculous term
ridiculous possibly but its a word used , poking at free will doctrine
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,513
4,790
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
If I understand your argument, your position is that we can handwave away the history we have, in favor of conjecture, because the history is inconvenient. Motivated reasoning, to say the least - stop accusing the Church of doing what you're acting out in real time here.
The Catholic Church based in rome has long done tyrannical things. I have not offered conjecture on MARY'S VIRGINITY BUT SIMPLE BIBLICAL STATEMENTRS WITHOUT HAVING TO TORTURE WORD MEANINGS LIKE YOU AND BOL HAVE.
Strong and McClintock provided a bit ago.
Well here are strongs and Thayers Greek, no cousins here . You muyst be using a different Strongs!
delphos (Key)
Pronunciation
ad-el-fos'
speaker3_a.svg

Part of Speech
masculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Greek Inflections of ἀδελφός [?]

Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 1:144,22
KJV Translation Count — Total: 346x
The KJV translates Strong's G80 in the following manner: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
  2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
  3. any fellow or man
  4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
  1. an associate in employment or office
  2. brethren in Christ
    1. his brothers by blood
    2. all men
    3. apostles
    4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
ἀδελφός adelphós, ad-el-fos'; from G1 (as a connective particle) and δελφύς delphýs (the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like G1):—brother.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?](Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS G80:
ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ (from α copulative and δελφύς, from the same womb; cf. ἀγάστωρ) [from Homer down];
1. a brother (whether born of the same two parents, or only of the same father or the same mother): Matthew 1:2; Matthew 4:18, and often. That 'the brethren of Jesus,' Matthew 12:46, 47 [but WH only in marginal reading]; Matthew 13:55f; Mark 6:3 (in the last two passages also sisters); Luke 8:19; John 2:12; John 7:3; Acts 1:14; Galatians 1:19; 1 Corinthians 9:5, are neither sons of Joseph by a wife married before Mary (which is the account in the Apocryphal Gospels [cf. Thilo, Cod. Apocr. N. T. i. 362f]), nor cousins, the children of Alphæus or Cleophas [i. e. Clopas] and Mary a sister of the mother of Jesus (the


McClintock gived 4 examples in NT that he says connotes cousins, but they are sketchy at best . The Matthew 13 would have jesus saying "Who are my mother aqnd cousins?" "Anyone doing the will of my Father is my mother and cousin"
Not poor grammar (in the sense of wrong usage) in the day, especially if they were speaking in Aramaic and the Greek authors of the NT were transliterating.
Well we do not know if they were speaking aramaic or Hebrew. Being in Jerusalem they were most likely Hebrew. but they knew who lived there. Remember Matthew was the gospel writers to a Jewish audience and the scholarly consensus is that Matthre originally wrote his gospel in Hebrew or aramaic.
 
  • Love
Reactions: MonoBiblical

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
16,513
4,790
113
71
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I only do so because you repeatedly insist on berating, demeaning, mudslinging, and accusing others of what you are guilty of (several times over now just in this conversation). Stop doing that, and Ill let this go. But as long as you insist on continuing, I will continue to remind that you couldn't be bothered to look up the words of the text before claiming something as "unalterable fact" that was obviously and inexcusable false.
Well I have already apologized for my sloppy academic work there. Now if BOL wishes to be gentlemanly we can move on. But his not subtle ad-hominems and his lies and according to many, when you use caps you are screaming or yelling. He has twisted my words and I called him out, Mine was poor work and I apologized when it was shown, When shall he????????
 

JLB

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2012
1,307
537
113
Spring Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
There is nothing in the Bible to support the idea that "God loves all men" but the Bible does say that God hates some before they are born, such as Esau.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Who are you saying is excluded from the world?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveYeshua

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
22,505
3,785
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Not confused. And their are many Baptist churches who are one with each other. So?
The difference is that Baptists – and ALL non-Catholic sects were invented by MEN during and after the 16th century.

The Catholic church goes back to Jesus and the
Apostles . . .
From AI:

Not all Catholic denominations are in full communion with one another. The Catholic Church recognizes different levels of communion, including full, partial, and no communion.
And YOUR mistake is going to AI for your theology.

The Catholic Church isn’t broken up into multiple pieces

But even if they are all of full communion with each other- so? They are merely sects within Christendom. Not all Catholics are saved like not all protestants are saved. Denominations mean nothg to jesus, but whether one has been born again or not.

Keep telling yourself that. It is obvious that implication, possibilities, hypotheticals and other meanings weigh more to you than common sense words and passages.
Again – YOUR problem is that you think like a 21st century English-speaking person who doesn’t understand the full implications of Greek and Hebrew from a culture thousands of years ago . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
22,505
3,785
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Fixated? WOW! a few mentions and you call it fixated! He was fixated on Jesus.

And if you learned Jewish culture at all, you would know why Nicodemus was puzzled. Not because og baptism, but because Jews could be born again up to six times and Nicodemus was born again 5/5. The sixth was reserved for being anointed king.

If your reading skills were up to par, you would see Nicodemus is puzzled about being born again as He could not think of a way He could be born again anymore.
Nonsense.

Some Jewish sects, like those of the Kabbalah believe in reincarnation – multiple “rebirths” is not a tenet of Judaism. Nicodemus was a faithful Jew who was puzzled at the very idea of
“rebirth”.
Jesus does define it. Water is flesh birth, Being born again is of the Spirit. sorry you lose grammatically, exegetically eisegetically, historically and rationally.
And I already educated you about WHY your theory doesn’t work/

If by “Water”, Jesus was simply talking about natural birth – then aborted children, Cesaerean births and stillborn babies are ALL destined for Hell because they didn’t have a natural childbirth.

Jesus was talking sabout the spiritual rebirth of Baptism . . .