Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation

[JLB]

The Bible CLEARLY shows 3 distinct comings.

1) The pretrib rapture by Jesus
2) The Jewish gathering mid trib in Rev 14
3) The second coming of rev 19.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


This passage is clear that the resurrection and Rapture take place at the coming of the Lord.

• we who are alive and remain = Rapture
• those who are asleep = Resurrection

 

[rebuilder 454]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


This passage is clear that the resurrection and Rapture take place at the coming of the Lord.

• we who are alive and remain = Rapture
• those who are asleep = Resurrection

Most pretribs agree with that, as do I.
Clearly the dead in Christ rise first at the pretrib rapture.
We agree.

 

[JLB]

Most pretribs agree with that, as do I.
Clearly the dead in Christ rise first at the pretrib rapture.
We agree.

Do you realize the coming of the Lord refers to the Second Coming of Christ?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


This passage is clear that the resurrection and Rapture take place at the coming of the Lord.

• we who are alive and remain = Rapture
• those who are asleep = Resurrection

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Do you realize the coming of the Lord refers to the Second Coming of Christ?

Precious friend, yes we realize The Prophesied Second Coming Of Christ, for Israel and the nations.
+
We also realize God's Other Context Of Mystery and The Associated Great GRACE Departure!
For The Body Of Christ!

Amen.

 

[JLB]

Precious friend, yes we realize The Prophesied Second Coming Of Christ, for Israel and the nations.
+
We also realize God's Other Context Of Mystery and The Associated Great GRACE Departure!
For The Body Of Christ!

Amen.

Paul taught the Gentles at Thessalonica that for them the resurrection and rapture was at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

 

[Davy]

No clue what DOCTORS YOU have listened to.



I have NEVER made such a Claim.


....

So now... you have stooped to the lowness of not only chopping up Bible Scripture to try... and make it say what you want, you also try that other people's words too.

I know it is the false pre-trib rapture preachers you listen to that got that working from, following what they do with butchering The Bible.

Repent, the time is short, as you will... be going through the "great tribulation" whether you like it or not, and those pre-trib preachers won't help you a bit. But I'm sure you helped them a lot, giving them all your money.

 

[Taken]

So now... you have stooped to the lowness of not only chopping up Bible Scripture to try... and make it say what you want, you also try that other people's words too.

I know it is the false pre-trib rapture preachers you listen to that got that working from, following what they do with butchering The Bible.

Repent, the time is short, as you will... be going through the "great tribulation" whether you like it or not, and those pre-trib preachers won't help you a bit. But I'm sure you helped them a lot, giving them all your money.

You have Zero evidence of me changing your words.

You have Zero evidence of the Church being on Earth During the Tribulations from Heaven.

You have Zero evidence of any Preacher outside of Scripture influencing me.

You have Zero evidence that the Wrath of The Lamb is Purposed to Effect negative Heavenly Judgements against men Baptized by the Lamb of God.

You being a GASLIGHTER while accusing another of gaslighting… is a typical ploy to infuse your Carnal and Political favoring into a Spiritual Understanding, (that which is foreign to you), is problematically laughable, (and why the immature would be sent to the corner with a dunce hat.)

 

[rebuilder 454]

Do you realize the coming of the Lord refers to the Second Coming of Christ?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


This passage is clear that the resurrection and Rapture take place at the coming of the Lord.

• we who are alive and remain = Rapture
• those who are asleep = Resurrection

3 comings taught in the bible.
Vivid and clear.
Postrib rapture doctrine skips it.
There are about 10 things EVERY postrib rapture teacher omits.
Postrib rapture doctrine, through omission, guaranteed themselves error.

Flat out bizarre.

 

[JLB]

3 comings taught in the bible.

2 Comings taught in scripture.

His coming.

The coming of the Lord.

There is no plural reference in the New Testament to the comings of the Lord, but it is always The Coming, or His Coming, singular.

• To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28

His coming is when He appears. His Coming is His appearing.


And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
1 John 2:28


The Resurrection and Rapture occur at His coming.

 

[rebuilder 454]

2 Comings taught in scripture.

His coming.

The coming of the Lord.

There is no plural reference in the New Testament to the comings of the Lord, but it is always The Coming, or His Coming, singular.

• To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28

His coming is when He appears. His Coming is His appearing.


And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
1 John 2:28


The Resurrection and Rapture occur at His coming.

Dead in Christ raised at the rapture.
Jesus framed the rapture pretrib and a different coming postrib.( 2 different comings)
Both in mat 24.
Rev 14 is the Jewish gathering. (3rd coming)

I know you need it omitted and that is why you ignore it.

 

[JLB]

Dead in Christ raised at the rapture.
Jesus framed the rapture pretrib and a different coming postrib.( 2 different comings)
Both in mat 24.
Rev 14 is the Jewish gathering. (3rd coming)

I know you need it omitted and that is why you ignore it.

Brother, please use scripture to make your point, if you expect to be taken seriously.

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming; "those who are asleep".

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• The rapture occurs at His coming; "we who are alive and remain".

• The destruction of the antichrist occurs at His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of
His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

 

[rebuilder 454]

Brother, please use scripture to make your point, if you expect to be taken seriously.

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming; "those who are asleep".

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• The rapture occurs at His coming; "we who are alive and remain".

• The destruction of the antichrist occurs at His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of
His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

I used mat 24 and Rev 14 as a text.
Your comment was "please use scripture"
Huh?

Then you post verses that both sides believe and use

Your postrib doctrine boasts of "only one coming"
Yet SCRIPTURE debunks that.
Ahem....as I demonstrated in mat 24 ( 2 separate comings) and Rev 14 ( yet another coming that CAN NOT POSSIBLY be the rapture of 1 thes 4 , nor can it be tge second coming as a warrior, with a sword, a robe dipped in blood , mounted on a white Horse with millions of horses blackening tge sky.)

Once we wake up to the word of God, then we procede.
Your doctrine has you painted in a corner.

What your side does ,is avoid the rapture verses, the purpose of the trib, the AC slaughtering ALL WHO RECIEVE THE MARK, AND the Jewish gathering of ROMANS 11.

None of you can reply to the virgin parable honestly. All of you change the components.
None of you have a clue as to the 144k ,or the Jewish harvest of romans 11, and Rev 14.

None of you know anything about the bride /groom component.
The LITTERAL CENTER OF END TIMES, AND YOU GUYS ARE DUMBFOUNDED....none of your teachers have any clue about the center of end times...( the bride and groom).

None of your teachers can even recognize the "before the flood setting Jesus gave in mat 24.
You guys have a banner verse of "after the flood" of mat 24 and yet can't process the ACTUAL WORDS/CONTEXT of what happens after the flood.
That word "AFTER" is seared into your doctrine, then you guys transpose "Jesus" onto "angels" then you transpose "earth" onto "heaven".
It says," angels gather saints in heaven".
.....but none of you actually read it.
Then ALL YOUR TEACHERS skip what Jesus says happens " before the flood "in Matthew 24 just a few sentences later.

....and you are worried about others being taken seriously???

Postrib rapture is in ashes.
I have only posted a portion of what ruins that doctrine, your ship has a hole in it that 3 city buses can fit in, and you are clueless that the lifeboats are already in the water.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matt 24 has "one taken, one left behind"...BEFORE THE FLOOD.

Postribs can not process that.
Instead the damage control mode gets invoked and they say " oh God always gathers the wicked first "

Wow....just ludicrous and silly.
Noah gathered first
Lot gathered first
The baby Jesus gathered first.

....oh but it gets worse.
Postribbs actually insinuate that half the world is wicked, half righteous.

See what a trap all that rearranging of God's word does.
As postribbers demonstrate, those postrib rapture teachers make fools out of their students.

Actually insidious.

 

[JLB]

I used mat 24 and Rev 14 as a text.
Your comment was "please use scripture"
Huh?

Then you post verses that both sides believe and use

Your postrib doctrine boasts of "only one coming"
Yet SCRIPTURE debunks that.
Ahem....as I demonstrated in mat 24 ( 2 separate comings) and Rev 14 ( yet another coming that CAN NOT POSSIBLY be the rapture of 1 thes 4 , nor can it be tge second coming as a warrior, with a sword, a robe dipped in blood , mounted on a white Horse with millions of horses blackening tge sky.)

Once we wake up to the word of God, then we procede.
Your doctrine has you painted in a corner.

What your side does ,is avoid the rapture verses, the purpose of the trib, the AC slaughtering ALL WHO RECIEVE THE MARK, AND the Jewish gathering of ROMANS 11.

None of you can reply to the virgin parable honestly. All of you change the components.
None of you have a clue as to the 144k ,or the Jewish harvest of romans 11, and Rev 14.

None of you know anything about the bride /groom component.
The LITTERAL CENTER OF END TIMES, AND YOU GUYS ARE DUMBFOUNDED....none of your teachers have any clue about the center of end times...( the bride and groom).

None of your teachers can even recognize the "before the flood setting Jesus gave in mat 24.
You guys have a banner verse of "after the flood" of mat 24 and yet can't process the ACTUAL WORDS/CONTEXT of what happens after the flood.
That word "AFTER" is seared into your doctrine, then you guys transpose "Jesus" onto "angels" then you transpose "earth" onto "heaven".
It says," angels gather saints in heaven".
.....but none of you actually read it.
Then ALL YOUR TEACHERS skip what Jesus says happens " before the flood "in Matthew 24 just a few sentences later.

....and you are worried about others being taken seriously???

Postrib rapture is in ashes.
I have only posted a portion of what ruins that doctrine, your ship has a hole in it that 3 city buses can fit in, and you are clueless that the lifeboats are already in the water.

Please post scripture if you want to be taken seriously.


Stating your opinion and the "tagging" your opinion with a mere scripture address without posting any scripture is why people don't trust or listen to what you are posting.


Here is an example of a scripture and making a point(s) from the scripture

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

• we who are alive and remain = The rapture
• those who are asleep = The resurrection of the dead in Christ
• until the coming of the Lord

The coming of the Lord is when these things occur.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Please post scripture if you want to be taken seriously.


Stating your opinion and the "tagging" your opinion with a mere scripture address without posting any scripture is why people don't trust or listen to what you are posting.


Here is an example of a scripture and making a point(s) from the scripture

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

The resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

• we who are alive and remain = The rapture
• those who are asleep = The resurrection of the dead in Christ
• until the coming of the Lord

The coming of the Lord is when these things occur.

Yes.
Both sides believe the dead in christ are raised at the rapture.
Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.
Looks like we agree

 

[JLB]

Yes.
Both sides believe the dead in christ are raised at the rapture.
Jesus taught a pretrib rapture.
Looks like we agree

‘Jesus taught the resurrection precedes the rapture.

Jesus taught the rapture and resurrection both occurred at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur on the last day, not 7 years before the last day.


The Antichrist is destroyed by His coming.


So no, the coming of the Lord certainly doesn’t take place before the tribulation.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Please post scripture to be taken seriously? Very well then, please prayerfully and Carefully review
about 100 Of Them, In:

God's Great Grace Departure RDF His Second Coming

Note: In the 'Title': RDF = Rightly Divided From

Precious friends, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified, as you
study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, in preparation for our [could
be soon] Departure To our Eternal Home In God's Great GloryLand!:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18 AV)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34 AV)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21 AV)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!" {online}:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In God's Other Context:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God
{ Current = “But Now!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9 AV)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9 AV)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11 AV)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:11-16 AV)

(3) CHRIST Is { Leaving Heaven } Coming With, ( which Were In Heaven! ),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15 AV)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With { Only } One army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:19 AV):

(5) With Another trumpet ( After "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, angels Are 'Sent', By The KING, To: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27 AV)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46 AV)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the Unrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46 AV)

To be continued...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Part II God's Great GRACE Departure

(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!" {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has 'Ended'/Zero signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 AV)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With
The [ Last GRACE ] Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:52 AV)
Note: The First GRACE Trump (Voice) Of God, Was In Acts 9:4 AV)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 AV)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” { which
Is A Mystery! }, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 cp Philippians 3:20-21 AV)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18 AV)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25 AV)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27 AV)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 AV)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

See you In God's Great GloryLand! ♫ ↑

GRACE, Peace, And JOY!...



Thanks for asking!

Amen.

 

[rebuilder 454]

‘Jesus taught the resurrection precedes the rapture.

Jesus taught the rapture and resurrection both occurred at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur on the last day, not 7 years before the last day.


The Antichrist is destroyed by His coming.


So no, the coming of the Lord certainly doesn’t take place before the tribulation.

Nice try.

Just omit the verses that DESTROY ;
1) One coming
2) the words of Jesus as to the timing of the rapture.
3) the harvest dynamic
4) the purpose of the trib
5) the 2 wives
6) romans 11 prophecy of the Jews grafted back in.
7) the FACT All rapture verses are opposite your supposed setting!!!!

And more I don't have time for.

You are trying ( as all postribbers) to find some "smoking gun", some " one verse miracle", that will shove all the verses destroying that doctrine, off the table.

News flash... those verses are not going away no matter how crafty those adherents get.

Look.
ÀNY ONE DYNAMIC of the pretrib rapture verses destroys that fragile hope that there is no pretrib rapture.
The ac killing ALL REFUSING THE MARK, THAT ONE THING, destroys your ENTIRE DEAL.
Just that one thing!!!!
The fact that Jesus depicted 3 time comings. That fact alone destroys your entire deal!!!!
That one thing!!!!!
The fact that Noah, Lot, and the baby Jesus were gathered Pre tribulation....that fact alone destroys your entire deal.
( Remember how postribbers used to have some some false notion that the wicked are always gathered first.???
That doctrine annihilated by myself years ago. So now you hardly ever see anybody try to bring up that that silly farce.

Another dying non issue is the one where you guys, invoke all these pretrib rapture dead men of the 1930's, and hope futiley, to ascribe our doctrine originating in them ,Pretending that without these dead men we would have no standing.

Then I exposed the hypocrisy.
Postribbers celebrate that their doctrine is From dead men of the early church.
Actually making the FONDATION AND BANNER of yalls doctrine coming from men.

So now every time that ascribing of men comes up, they get reminded of their gross, blatant, hypocrisy and false foundation.

False doctrine always gets destroyed by the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

‘Jesus taught the resurrection precedes the rapture.

Jesus taught the rapture and resurrection both occurred at His coming.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection and rapture occur on the last day, not 7 years before the last day.


The Antichrist is destroyed by His coming.


So no, the coming of the Lord certainly doesn’t take place before the tribulation.

QUOTE
""So no, the coming of the Lord certainly doesn’t take place before the tribulation""

....and yet Jesus depicted it as exactly taking place before the trib.
Take it up with Him.
He said it....exposing your false non biblical beliefs.
Postrib rapture is so busted

I leave you guys in ashes and you act like you have some truthful standing.
Omitting and changing verses for a doctrine is shameful