Demographic collapse. Capitalism Dies of Childlessness

[amigo de christo]

So, in other words, you must look at the numbers the man had when he had no fever, but was perfectly healthy. You must look at the situation before the whole current and corrupt philosophy has taken root.

I think we can all agree we gots massive problems .
Has anyone ever wondered why it is like this . WHY the nations are getting worse
and wickedness has arisen to such great heights .
And now all we see from both sides of the politics is the same agenda with both sides promisin g we DO this for you .
ONLY they dont care about humanity at all .
But has anyone wondered why this has come and is coming upon this world .
IT SHUNNED GOD and refused to repent
and worse a lot of christendom has shunned him too .
AINT a blessing coming
ITS JUDGMENT . for they will NOT repent but only get worse .
AN IRON YOKE COMETH and this world will wail
For in the heart of man lies wickedness and how much harder does a heart get
WHEN all it do is reject , reject and reject GOD and his saints who are trying to get this people to repent .
And worse of all is that christedom itself is from when the great lie to merge all religions came from .
JESUS BEEN DENIED . and worse it gets and will get on this path .

 

[Chrysostomos]

Some of the women in Korea started the "4b movement". That is, NO dating, NO sex, NO marriage and NO children. They started this in response to the patriarchal model that women are supposed to be baby makers, sexual satisfiers, maids and child raisers...all at the hand of domestic violence, if it didn't happen for those men. Basically, women world-wide are fed-up with being thought of like that. And they're responding by quietly dropping out of the 'game'.

For the sake of balance:
Women in Korea and elsewhere are opting out (4B) because they’re tired of being reduced to baby-makers, sexual objects, maids, and victims of domestic violence.

At the same time, millions of men worldwide are opting out in their own way (red-pill, MGTOW, Andrew Tate followers, etc.) because they’re tired of being reduced to disposable providers, workhorses, cannon fodder, and walking ATMs who can lose everything they’ve worked for in divorce courts, with almost no rights over their own children.

Two different sets of grievances, same result: both sides are exhausted with the traditional gender contract and are quietly (or loudly) refusing to sign it anymore.

That’s the symmetry people usually miss when they only mention 4B and never the male equivalent.

And...WHY do you think that is?

I actually listed the main reasons higher up in the thread + video youtube

 

[Chrysostomos]

I think we can all agree we gots massive problems .
Has anyone ever wondered why it is like this . WHY the nations are getting worse
and wickedness has arisen to such great heights .
And now all we see from both sides of the politics is the same agenda with both sides promisin g we DO this for you .
ONLY they dont care about humanity at all .
But has anyone wondered why this has come and is coming upon this world .
IT SHUNNED GOD and refused to repent
and worse a lot of christendom has shunned him too .
AINT a blessing coming
ITS JUDGMENT . for they will NOT repent but only get worse .
AN IRON YOKE COMETH and this world will wail
For in the heart of man lies wickedness and how much harder does a heart get
WHEN all it do is reject , reject and reject GOD and his saints who are trying to get this people to repent .
And worse of all is that christedom itself is from when the great lie to merge all religions came from .
JESUS BEEN DENIED . and worse it gets and will get on this path .

How much do you need to earn in the US — specifically in your city — to comfortably support a middle-class lifestyle for a family with 3 kids?

 

[amigo de christo]

How much do you need to earn in the US — specifically in your city — to comfortably support a middle-class lifestyle for a family with 3 kids?

TOO MUCH .
my kids are now grown . I could not even dare to imagine putting kids into these schools now a days .
Let alone the price of everything .
This gringo been single now for years . And will be remaining single .
Adultery is not for me . But even if i could remarry i dont think i would now .
I aint against marriage at all . But its far simplier to serve GOD b eing single

 

[Chrysostomos]

TOO MUCH .
my kids are now grown . I could not even dare to imagine putting kids into these schools now a days .
Let alone the price of everything .
This gringo been single now for years . And will be remaining single .
Adultery is not for me . But even if i could remarry i dont think i would now .
I aint against marriage at all . But its far simplier to serve GOD b eing single

By the way, you just reminded me of one more huge reason for the demographic crisis: parents no longer feel confident that their kids will be safe in this world — spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, financially, or even physically.

That’s exactly why so many people now openly defend the child-free position:
“Why bring children into this broken, scary world?”

And honestly, it’s hard to argue with that feeling when you look around.

So the question becomes:
How do you even answer someone who says, “I’m not having kids because I’m terrified of what the future holds for them”?

 

[ScottA]

The fact that the modern financial system is essentially a giant Ponzi scheme is obvious. Nobody is even seriously trying to hide it anymore. It’s just as obvious that this system will collapse in the foreseeable future.

Modern capitalism is a machine that only runs on constant growth. More people = more workers, more consumers, more tax revenue. GDP goes up, companies make money, debts get serviced, pensions get paid. But once fertility drops below the replacement level of 2.1, the growth stops. South Korea’s population is projected to fall from 51 million today to about 20 million by 2100; Europe from roughly 750 million to around 400 million. This isn’t a “soft decline” — it’s a collapse: every new generation will be 25–50 % smaller than the previous one.

For those of us alive right now, this means that in 20–30 years there simply won’t be enough working-age people. The economy will shrink, factories will shut down, tax revenues will plummet. And my pension? There won’t be one — there’ll be nobody left to pay it. Japan already has 28 % of its population over 65 and fewer and fewer young people; the system is creaking at the seams.

War (like what’s happening in Ukraine and Russia) only accelerates the drop: millions of young people die, birth rates crash even further. In 10–20 years we’ll see empty cities, shuttered hospitals, and weakened armies. Thanks to medicine, the elderly are living longer, but the young are becoming an endangered species.

By 2050 every third person in Europe will be over 65. Who’s going to feed and care for them? In South Korea in thirty years there will be two retirees for every single working person — that’s mathematically impossible to sustain.
View attachment 73952
Governments will either have to jack up taxes to insane levels (which will kill what’s left of the economy) or simply abandon the elderly. And that’s us — we’re the ones who will become those pensionless, uncared-for old people.

The scariest part?
Nobody is preparing. There is no plan, no alternative model. Countries throw money at the problem (South Korea has already spent $270 billion since 2006 on pro-natal policies), but fertility still doesn’t budge — cash can’t fix the lack of time, the stress, or the cultural shift.

We’re sliding toward a cliff, and we’re the generation that will feel it — not some distant descendants. In 20–30 years the current system will be dead, and nothing has been built to replace it.

Developed societies suffer from extreme short-term thinking: politicians care about the next election (4–5 years), corporations care about the next quarter, capitalism rarely looks beyond quarterly reports. Demography operates on a 20–50-year horizon, and nobody wants to deal with timeframes that long.
We’re in a dead end.
There is no alternative model, no contingency plan. In 20–30 years we’ll be asking, “Where’s my pension? Where’s my safety net?” — and there will be no answer.

Years of famine and plenty are not in the hand of men, but God. He's got this.

Jubilee is coming!

 

[ScottA]

TOO MUCH .
my kids are now grown . I could not even dare to imagine putting kids into these schools now a days .
Let alone the price of everything .
This gringo been single now for years . And will be remaining single .
Adultery is not for me . But even if i could remarry i dont think i would now .
I aint against marriage at all . But its far simplier to serve GOD b eing single

Fear not--go forth and multiply! God is our Father and has many mansions!

 

[Chrysostomos]

Years of famine and plenty are not in the hand of men, but God. He's got this.

Jubilee is coming!

For any population to simply replace itself, the average woman needs to have roughly 2.1–2.4 children.
That is only possible when almost everyone has children: the poor, the middle class, and the rich.

Modern Western (and increasingly global) society is built to do the exact opposite.

1. A family with 2–3 children has become a luxury good
In a major city, a decent middle-class life with three kids now requires an income that only the top 10–15 % of households have. In the US that’s roughly $150–250k+, in Europe €80–150k+ depending on the country. Anything below that means constant financial stress, debt, or a visibly lower standard of living.

2. Capitalism rewards extreme individualism and the “winner” mindset
The highest virtue is “make as much as possible and spend it on yourself.”

3. The result is a crystal-clear class divide in fertility
- The top 5–10 % (rich and ultra-rich) can easily afford 3–5 kids and outsource the work (nannies, private schools, etc.).
- The bottom 70–80 % (poor and lower-middle class) literally cannot afford even one or two without serious hardship.
- The traditional middle class—the historical engine of population replacement—is shrinking fast and having fewer and fewer children.

4. The math is merciless
When only the rich reproduce and the rich are 5–10 % of the population, the total fertility rate inevitably collapses to 1.0–1.3 children per woman.
That is exactly what we see today in South Korea (0.72), Italy (1.20), Spain (1.19), and most of Eastern Europe.

5. The conclusion almost nobody dares to voice
The greater the concentration of wealth, the faster a nation dies out.
Turning 90 % of the population into people for whom children are “economically irrational” while a tiny elite hoards nearly all resources is not just unfair—it is the single most effective depopulation mechanism ever invented.

The bitter irony: the most “successful,” “advanced,” and wealthiest societies sterilize themselves the fastest.
The rich keep reproducing (a little). The poor stop entirely. The middle disappears.
Two or three generations later you are left with a handful of ultra-wealthy elders and a sea of childless poor.

Extreme wealth inequality is not merely social injustice.
It is quiet, slow-motion national suicide.

Any nation that wants to still exist in 100 or 200 years has three choices:
- radically reduce inequality and make family life affordable for the majority again, dismantle the hyper-individualistic winner-take-all model,
- or accept that in a couple of centuries it will be nothing but museums and history books.

There is no fourth option.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The modern capitalist system is most accurately and perfectly described by this verse:​

“Woe to those who join house to house,​

who add field to field,​

until there is no more room,​

and you are made to dwell alone in the midst of the land.”​

— Isaiah 5:8 (KJV)

 

[ScottA]

View attachment 74010
For any population to simply replace itself, the average woman needs to have roughly 2.1–2.4 children.
That is only possible when almost everyone has children: the poor, the middle class, and the rich.

Modern Western (and increasingly global) society is built to do the exact opposite.

1. A family with 2–3 children has become a luxury good
In a major city, a decent middle-class life with three kids now requires an income that only the top 10–15 % of households have. In the US that’s roughly $150–250k+, in Europe €80–150k+ depending on the country. Anything below that means constant financial stress, debt, or a visibly lower standard of living.

2. Capitalism rewards extreme individualism and the “winner” mindset
The highest virtue is “make as much as possible and spend it on yourself.”

3. The result is a crystal-clear class divide in fertility
- The top 5–10 % (rich and ultra-rich) can easily afford 3–5 kids and outsource the work (nannies, private schools, etc.).
- The bottom 70–80 % (poor and lower-middle class) literally cannot afford even one or two without serious hardship.
- The traditional middle class—the historical engine of population replacement—is shrinking fast and having fewer and fewer children.

4. The math is merciless
When only the rich reproduce and the rich are 5–10 % of the population, the total fertility rate inevitably collapses to 1.0–1.3 children per woman.
That is exactly what we see today in South Korea (0.72), Italy (1.20), Spain (1.19), and most of Eastern Europe.

5. The conclusion almost nobody dares to voice
The greater the concentration of wealth, the faster a nation dies out.
Turning 90 % of the population into people for whom children are “economically irrational” while a tiny elite hoards nearly all resources is not just unfair—it is the single most effective depopulation mechanism ever invented.

The bitter irony: the most “successful,” “advanced,” and wealthiest societies sterilize themselves the fastest.
The rich keep reproducing (a little). The poor stop entirely. The middle disappears.
Two or three generations later you are left with a handful of ultra-wealthy elders and a sea of childless poor.

Extreme wealth inequality is not merely social injustice.
It is quiet, slow-motion national suicide.

Any nation that wants to still exist in 100 or 200 years has three choices:
- radically reduce inequality and make family life affordable for the majority again, dismantle the hyper-individualistic winner-take-all model,
- or accept that in a couple of centuries it will be nothing but museums and history books.

There is no fourth option.

Again, stop thinking as a man.

"It is given once for men to die." -- But did you miss the teachings of being born again--out of this world? Did you think we were here to lay up treasures for future generations--here in this world--that they may die too after living a good and fair life? That is not what God is doing at all. How is it that you do not know this?

On the contrary, God is dividing the light from the darkness--daily, and the sheep from the goats. No picnic. Then comes the end.

Meanwhile, we are here to subdue and multiply--but not to populate the world with a good balance of worldly resources. That is not the abundance promised by God--but by Satan. To the contrary, we are to lay up treasure in heaven, while walking through this shadow of death--sentenced to walk out what and who we are at our core--and were since before the foundation of the world.

As for society and government--we are not to live fair, but free, free to do what we are appointed to by God. Let that be your test and rationale of what is good--anything less is against God.

 

[amigo de christo]

By the way, you just reminded me of one more huge reason for the demographic crisis: parents no longer feel confident that their kids will be safe in this world — spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, financially, or even physically.

That’s exactly why so many people now openly defend the child-free position:
“Why bring children into this broken, scary world?”

And honestly, it’s hard to argue with that feeling when you look around.

So the question becomes:
How do you even answer someone who says, “I’m not having kids because I’m terrified of what the future holds for them”?

I would tell them not to fear . But they must raise those children up in the way they should Go .
And be prepared to home school .
Cause from pre to kinder to elementary to jr high and high sch ool
A NASTY delusion is already taken them captive to a real long list of genders and same sex marriage
as well as other things .
DONT feed the children to the den of lions .
Do not give them to the ecumenical harlot , SO be on gaurd cause that HO
done infected many a church too .
Be prepared , i would say , TO NOT be loved and to be persecuted . Forgive those who do persecute
but never conform .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fear not--go forth and multiply! God is our Father and has many mansions!

OH i agree my friend .
Fear not .
But let us never once feed our children to the den of lions either .
You have children , YOU H OME SCH OOL
You have child ren , DO NOT ALSO FEED THEM to the ecumenical HARLOT
SO , yeah watch out cause that ol HO done infiltrated many a church .
But yes , FEAR NOT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fear not--go forth and multiply! God is our Father and has many mansions!

Keep the prayers coming my friend .
This sheep is not backing down to the well favored harlot and her ecumenical call of anti christ interfaith let us be one .
This sheep g onna expose the HO and all who do her work and her working .
But yeah its gonna cost me all right . Maybe one day even my own life .
BUT DO not weep for me . JESUS DONE CONQUERED death , if i die I GO TO BE IN A FAR BETTER PLACE .
THANKS OF COURSE TO GOD , TO CHRIST
cause it darn sure aint like i deserved or earned it .
ITS JESUS for me scott . HIS WORDS are our meat , every word of TRUTH be our meat .
I dont eat from the hands of harlots who do the bidding of their mother harlot and always hand out the mix .
ITS TRUTH for this sheep . Not the mix .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fear not--go forth and multiply! God is our Father and has many mansions!

Always remember the love of a harlot
ends with deadly disease and death .
She can deck herself up all day to look beautiful on the outside
but within that HO is a long list of disease and diseases that will surley rot the soul of any who sits under her and her love .

 

[Mink57]

@Mink57

You’re moving much too far ahead.
Before discussing how a husband should treat his wife, a man first needs to honestly answer one fundamental question for himself:
Why do I even need a wife?

Let me explain with an analogy (hope it doesn’t sound too crude): you’re trying to teach me how to care for something I haven’t yet decided to acquire, and I’m not even sure I want it or need it.
So first please help me see the value and the purpose. Only after that can we talk about how to live with it properly.

I think that's a good question. And it's a question that we SHOULD ask ourselves AND be honest with ourselves.

And I've asked a similar question on other forums: Why do you want a woman? The answers ranged anywhere from "To get steady unpaid for sex" or "To have someone to cook and clean the house" to "To share the joys and trials of life with a partner" or "To raise a family with a partner because I believe that having two parents is the best model to raising healthy well-adjusted children."

As for the value and purpose of marriage, like I point out in the paragraph above, SOME people (men) might even admit those reasons to themselves (at least), and see 'value and purpose' in them. But are those valid reasons for wanting a wife?

Regarding the theological aspect — I completely understand what you’re saying, and actually the Scriptures support the possibility of a celibate life:
- Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself spoke of those who “have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 19:12).
- The Apostle Paul explicitly says that it is good for a man to remain unmarried and that “those who marry will face many troubles in this life” (1 Corinthians 7).
He literally warns against being “unequally yoked” — and in context that’s about marriage.
- Both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions have a centuries-old monastic calling in which childlessness and celibacy are regarded not as a defect, but often as a higher spiritual path.

Now let’s speak plainly about the practical, financial, and social realities of 2025.

1. Cost
Living alone is relatively inexpensive. Maintaining a family with children at even a modest dignified level in today’s cities requires several times more money than a single person needs. The difference is obvious to anyone who has ever done the calculations.

I think it depends on the lifestyle one is willing to live. When I had my daughters, we were living on the low end of middle income. And yet, we fed them...kept them warm...clothed them...put gas in the car...yadda, yadda, yadda. We didn't go on extravagant vacations. We weren't eating filet mignon and lobster every night. Our 'entertainment' pretty much focused on weekend backyard bbq's in the summer, and late night kitchen table gatherings. A more simple life.

And no, we weren't living in the worst part of town.

2. Risk
In Ukraine (and the situation is similar in most countries), 60–70 % of marriages end in divorce, and in 94–95 % of cases the children stay with the mother.
After divorce a man can lose not only his savings and home, but also contact with his children.
The result: a very real chance of ending one’s old age alone and in poverty.

That may be in the Ukraine. Not quite the same here in the USA, despite what you may have heard from angry men who claim that they were 'raked over the coals' by their ex's (financially). Statistically, it is women with children who come out worse off financially than their ex-husband's.

A single man, by contrast, retains full control over his income and life, can save, travel, and prepare financially for his later years without such catastrophic risks.

Makes sense.

Given all of the above, my honest question is this:

In light of today’s realities, how would you motivate men to marry and have children?

Maybe start by actually listening to why more and more women don't want to marry and have children.

What concrete advantages do you see in married family life today that clearly outweigh the enormous financial burden and the serious risks most men now face?

Men and women BOTH face serious financial risks if they get divorced.
But women face more emotional and physical risks of getting married in the first place.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think that's a good question. And it's a question that we SHOULD ask ourselves AND be honest with ourselves.

And I've asked a similar question on other forums: Why do you want a woman? The answers ranged anywhere from "To get steady unpaid for sex" or "To have someone to cook and clean the house" to "To share the joys and trials of life with a partner" or "To raise a family with a partner because I believe that having two parents is the best model to raising healthy well-adjusted children."

As for the value and purpose of marriage, like I point out in the paragraph above, SOME people (men) might even admit those reasons to themselves (at least), and see 'value and purpose' in them. But are those valid reasons for wanting a wife?



I think it depends on the lifestyle one is willing to live. When I had my daughters, we were living on the low end of middle income. And yet, we fed them...kept them warm...clothed them...put gas in the car...yadda, yadda, yadda. We didn't go on extravagant vacations. We weren't eating filet mignon and lobster every night. Our 'entertainment' pretty much focused on weekend backyard bbq's in the summer, and late night kitchen table gatherings. A more simple life.

And no, we weren't living in the worst part of town.

That may be in the Ukraine. Not quite the same here in the USA, despite what you may have heard from angry men who claim that they were 'raked over the coals' by their ex's (financially). Statistically, it is women with children who come out worse off financially than their ex-husband's.

Makes sense.

Maybe start by actually listening to why more and more women don't want to marry and have children.

Men and women BOTH face serious financial risks if they get divorced.
But women face more emotional and physical risks of getting married in the first place.

Always remember the love of a harlot
ends with deadly disease and death .
She can deck herself up all day to look beautiful on the outside
but within that HO is a long list of disease and diseases that will surley rot the soul of any who sits under her and her love .

 

[Mink57]

Always remember the love of a harlot
ends with deadly disease and death .
She can deck herself up all day to look beautiful on the outside
but within that HO is a long list of disease and diseases that will surley rot the soul of any who sits under her and her love .

...as if MEN have nothing to do with spreading those diseases. Big Fat Eyeroll.

 

[amigo de christo]

...as if MEN have nothing to do with spreading those diseases. Big Fat Eyeroll.

Oh they do . but the disease i spoke of IS SPIRITUAL my near and dear friend .
AND IT DARN sure seems many men and women been playing with THAT HARLOT .
Many will wail .
For on a day
THE DAY
THE DAY OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and THE LAMB
I tell us all that any who sat under a harlots love and was a partaker of her cup of fornication
Of her ecumeincal interfaith lets be one anti christ call . THEY GONNA WAIL sister . wail .
Now seeing i do love the people and do not hate
THIS SHEEP gonna warn them and not allow sin upon them . The wellfavored HO
has many men and many women who are partakers of and co helpers to HER FORNICATION .

 

[amigo de christo]

...as if MEN have nothing to do with spreading those diseases. Big Fat Eyeroll.

speaking of natural diseases
IF folks would have heeded GOD and not been a fornicating around .....................well then .
And speaking of disease , the number one killer
that quickly spread from man to man and man with woman
WELL how did that spread so fast . drugs , and etc .
SEEMS TO ME , rather than folks hating on the bible
and the good ol fashoined patraicharcal system ,
THEY NEEDS TO DO AN FORGIVE ME LORD FOR I HAVE SINNED moment
COME to JESUS
and get IN THE BIBLE to learn for themselves . Thank you for your reminder as well .

 

[Mink57]

For the sake of balance:
Women in Korea and elsewhere are opting out (4B) because they’re tired of being reduced to baby-makers, sexual objects, maids, and victims of domestic violence.

At the same time, millions of men worldwide are opting out in their own way (red-pill, MGTOW, Andrew Tate followers, etc.) because they’re tired of being reduced to disposable providers, workhorses, cannon fodder, and walking ATMs who can lose everything they’ve worked for in divorce courts, with almost no rights over their own children.

The Red-pill, MGTOW and Tate followers aren't "opting out" of relationships. A good chunk of those "manosphere" groups may despise women (and their perceived notions about women) and yet...still seek out women to have sex with....

...while the 4b movement says, "NO SEX WITH MEN." (which doesn't imply that women should have sex with women instead of men). To the women who have opted out of intimate relationships with men altogether, those men cannot claim that those women are seeking men as "disposable providers, workhorses, cannon fodders and walking ATM's". Most women these days have no need for a man's money. They earn their own. So the whole idea of a woman looking for an ATM with a penis is pretty much out the window. And since MOST women DO work outside the home AND bring in a decent income, can't say that men are disposable "providers"...especially if SHE'S doing much and/or MOST of the 'providing'.

And if those same men claim to have 'no rights' over their children well...did they ASK for those rights? Or do they just assume because their brother's sister's cousin's nephew's friend got 'raked over the coals' that ALL men would have the same experience?

Two different sets of grievances, same result: both sides are exhausted with the traditional gender contract and are quietly (or loudly) refusing to sign it anymore.

That’s the symmetry people usually miss when they only mention 4B and never the male equivalent.

I actually listed the main reasons higher up in the thread + video youtube

I agree! But I DON'T agree that both sides are dropping out in equal measures.

...and, it seems that a LOT more men are ticked off because women are quietly dropping out...including the sex game.