THE CHURCH, THE BODY OF CHRIST, WILL NOT FACE THE WRATH OF THE TRIBULATION

[Doug]

[Matthew 3:7 KJV]
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"........What is the wrath to come?

[1Thesalonians 1:10 KJV]
"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."........we are said to be delivered from "the wrath to come". Is this the same wrath John spoke of in Matthew 3:7?

[Romans 5:9 KJV]
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.".........Again we have assurance that we have been saved from wrath.

Wrath needs to be examined to know the extent of our deliverance from it.

[Isaiah 13:9 KJV]
"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

[Isaiah 13:13 KJV]
"Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

[Revelations 6:16 KJV]
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"[Rev 6:17 KJV]"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

[Zephaniah 1:18 KJV]
"Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land."

[Romans 2:5 KJV]
"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;"..........All of these verses speak of the day of the Lord. Without doubt, it can be safely said we will not endure wrath in the day pf the Lord. This is the wrath John the Baptist warned Israel of. The day of the Lord occurs at the end of the tribulation, which Israel will endure. Believing Israel will be preserved in the tribulation and at it's end, when Christ returns, they will enter their prophetic kingdom on earth.

We are spared facing wrath in the day of the Lord, but are we saved from the tribulation?

[2Thesalonians 2:1 KJV]
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him," [2Th 2:2 KJV] "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

[2Thesalonians 2:8 KJV] "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:".........The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to destroy that Wicked Antichrist is the day of Christ; it is not our gathering together (the rapture). The rapture is only revealed to be for the body of Christ. When John declared escaping the "wrath to come" he couldn't have been speaking of the rapture because that was not revealed until Paul did so. The rapture is not the day of Christ; the day of Christ occurs at the same time as the day of the Lord and could be said to be detailing Christ's role in the day of the Lord.

The day of the Lord is not the only time his wrath is revealed. There are other passages to consider in the tribulation that speak of wrath. Since we are told we are saved from wrath, then we have to be saved from all instances of wrath in the tribulation.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." [Revelation 11:18 KJV]

"And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God." [Revelation 14:19 KJV]

"And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God." [Revelation 15:1 KJV]

"And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever." [Revelation 15:7 KJV]

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." [Revelation 16:1 KJV].........All of these verses speak of wrath and are not directly happening at the day of the Lord. The wrath in these verses happen outside of the day of the Lord. If we are saved from wrath, then we are saved from the wrath of the tribulation as well. The tribulation is a time of God's wrath. Our gathering together, the rapture, occurs to deliver us from the wrath of the tribulation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello Doug,

The Rev 16 bowl/vial judgements have been recorded in the reverse order in which they will occur. The Seventh Bowl judgement has already happened during the last century and into the early portion of this century. The prophecies contained in this bowl judgement have already occurred.

The Sixth Bowl judgement is presently playing out at the moment and will be completed in around 20 years from now when God will judge the heavenly hosts in heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and those judged will be gathered together on the earth and imprisoned in the bottomless pit. The fifth bowl judgement will be followed by a 1,000-year period of peace upon the earth until the Bottomless pit is unlocked and the judged kings of the earth and the judged heavenly hosts are once more able to bring tribulation upon the whole earth when they are released.

The period of the great tribulation will then occur during the little while period and the tribulation will end when the heavenly hosts, i.e. Satan, the Beast(s) and the Little Horn are all captured by Christ and dispatched into the Lake of fire.

During the Little While Period, the fifth, fourth, third, second and the first Bowl Judgements will occur in this order during the Great Tribulation and all of the peoples on the face of the earth at that time will experience this tribulation and wrath and the Saints who hold fast to God's Promises will be refined during this process such that the dross will be removed from them and they will shine in the presence of God.

The Body of Christ, i.e. the assembly which are the Saints collectively called the "Church", will experience the tribulation at this time and they will see God's wrath, and they will continue in their worship of Him through it, even though they may lose their physical life, knowing that when Christ comes on the Clouds of Heaven with all of the Heavenly Hosts, that they will then receive their reward of Eternal Life.

We are told in the Book of Revelation that during the Little While Period when the Great Tribulation and Wrath of God will occur that there will be a great falling away of the Saints during this time period.

The Saints during this time period are encouraged by God to hold onto their faith in Him as they are refined in His Holy Fire. The Saints will face the Wrath of the Great Tribulation Period.

The Saint alive at this time will need to keep their focus on God's promises for those who hold firm to His promises.

Shalom

 

[rebuilder 454]

The purpose of the trib is preparation of the Jews and marks the time of the Gentiles.

Jacob's trouble. Not churches trouble.
Not kick the bride of Christ around for purification.

 

[LoveYeshua]

“THE CHURCH, THE BODY OF CHRIST, WILL NOT FACE THE WRATH OF THE TRIBULATION.”

This statement is not true, and here is why:

Jesus never taught that His followers would escape the troubles at the end. Instead, He said the opposite. He warned His disciples that His people would go through hard times before He returns.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:9 NKJV
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.”

Jesus said believers must endure these troubles until the end.
Matthew 24:13 NKJV
“But he who endures to the end shall be saved.”

Jesus said the great troubles come before He gathers His people.
Matthew 24:29–31 NKJV
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… He will send His angels… and they will gather together His elect.”

Here Jesus clearly says the gathering of His people happens after the tribulation, not before.

Jesus also prayed that His followers would be kept faithful through trials, not taken out of them.
John 17:15 NKJV
“I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.”

The Old Testament shows the same pattern. God does not remove His faithful from trouble. He protects them in the trouble.

Daniel’s friends were not taken out of the fire. God saved them in the fire.
Daniel 3:25 NKJV
“Look!… the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”

Daniel was not taken out of Babylon. He was protected in it.

No prophet ever taught that God removes His faithful to escape the final test. They all warn God’s people to remain faithful during it.

Jesus teaches the same. His followers will face tribulation. They will be protected spiritually, and they must stay faithful and endure until He comes.

So the claim that believers will escape the tribulation is not what Jesus taught, not what His disciples taught, and not what the Old Testament teaches.

Blessings

 

[JLB]

[Matthew 3:7 KJV]
"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"........What is the wrath to come?

[1Thesalonians 1:10 KJV]
"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."........we are said to be delivered from "the wrath to come". Is this the same wrath John spoke of in Matthew 3:7?

[Romans 5:9 KJV]
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.".........Again we have assurance that we have been saved from wrath.

Wrath needs to be examined to know the extent of our deliverance from it.

[Isaiah 13:9 KJV]
"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

[Isaiah 13:13 KJV]
"Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

[Revelations 6:16 KJV]
"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"[Rev 6:17 KJV]"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

[Zephaniah 1:18 KJV]
"Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land."

[Romans 2:5 KJV]
"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;"..........All of these verses speak of the day of the Lord. Without doubt, it can be safely said we will not endure wrath in the day pf the Lord. This is the wrath John the Baptist warned Israel of. The day of the Lord occurs at the end of the tribulation, which Israel will endure. Believing Israel will be preserved in the tribulation and at it's end, when Christ returns, they will enter their prophetic kingdom on earth.

We are spared facing wrath in the day of the Lord, but are we saved from the tribulation?

[2Thesalonians 2:1 KJV]
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him," [2Th 2:2 KJV] "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

[2Thesalonians 2:8 KJV] "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:".........The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to destroy that Wicked Antichrist is the day of Christ; it is not our gathering together (the rapture). The rapture is only revealed to be for the body of Christ. When John declared escaping the "wrath to come" he couldn't have been speaking of the rapture because that was not revealed until Paul did so. The rapture is not the day of Christ; the day of Christ occurs at the same time as the day of the Lord and could be said to be detailing Christ's role in the day of the Lord.

The day of the Lord is not the only time his wrath is revealed. There are other passages to consider in the tribulation that speak of wrath. Since we are told we are saved from wrath, then we have to be saved from all instances of wrath in the tribulation.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." [Revelation 11:18 KJV]

"And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God." [Revelation 14:19 KJV]

"And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God." [Revelation 15:1 KJV]

"And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever." [Revelation 15:7 KJV]

"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." [Revelation 16:1 KJV].........All of these verses speak of wrath and are not directly happening at the day of the Lord. The wrath in these verses happen outside of the day of the Lord. If we are saved from wrath, then we are saved from the wrath of the tribulation as well. The tribulation is a time of God's wrath. Our gathering together, the rapture, occurs to deliver us from the wrath of the tribulation.

The tribulation is the persecution of the church by Satan through the antichrist.


The wrath of God is poured out on the antichrist and his forces by Jesus Christ at the coming of the Lord on the Day of the Lord.


But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9


The Lord destroys the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.


“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:29-30

 

[rebuilder 454]

All those hoping for the church to go through the trib never, ever, post the rapture verses, nor do they ever post the 2 escape verses by Jesus.
They post the trials from all the past ages of the church, and the trials and persecutions we are promised as believers.....as if pretribbers are not aware of all of it, and also suffer as any believer.
So nothing at all in that misunderstanding by them, and the false doctrine they try so hard to support futility.

Then they show us mat 24.
But in that multifaceted prophecy of Jesus they only showcase their banner word.
One word out of the ENTIRE CHAPTER.
One word that they have no idea what it says.
"AFTER"
That one word is all they see.

Then they change the words around their one and only verse of their doctrine.

Posting what it ACTUALLY SAYS means nothing to them.

It ACTUALLY says, after the trib, Jesus (not the Father) in heaven, sends angels in heaven, to gather saints in heaven.

BECAUSE They are totally ignorant of what the rapture is.

Psssst....in the biblical rapture, the father sends Jesus TO EARTH, to gather the BRIDE ON EARTH.
Sigh.

Very strange that they have clung to error so willingly, and actually celebrate that they got it from dead ancient early church fathers.
Ahem....who needed massive correction and operated with limited revelations.

Postribbers have guaranteed themselves error.

 

[Doug]

The purpose of the trib is preparation of the Jews and marks the time of the Gentiles.

Jacob's trouble. Not churches trouble.
Not kick the bride of Christ around for purification.

right

 

[Doug]

The purpose of the trib is preparation of the Jews and marks the time of the Gentiles.

Jacob's trouble. Not churches trouble.
Not kick the bride of Christ around for purification.

Another thing to consider is this passage.............
[Rev 14:6 KJV] "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"
[Rev 14:7 KJV] "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Here is an angel preaching a different gospel

The body of Christ received Paul's gospel and if were on earth in the tribulation would have another gospel preached by an angel. The angel would be accursed

 

[Doug]

The tribulation is the persecution of the church by Satan through the antichrist.


The wrath of God is poured out on the antichrist and his forces by Jesus Christ at the coming of the Lord on the Day of the Lord.


But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9


The Lord destroys the antichrist at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.


“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:29-30

The tribulation is the persecution of the church by Satan through the antichrist.

The believing remnant of Israel are the ones persecuted not the body of Christ

The wrath of God is poured out on the antichrist and his forces by Jesus Christ at the coming of the Lord on the Day of the Lord.

Right

The Lord destroys the antichrist at His coming.

Yes it is the day of the Lord but I think it is also the day of Christ ......see 2 Thessalonians 2:

The coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.

Right

 

[JLB]

The believing remnant of Israel are the ones persecuted not the body of Christ

So you believe Christian Jews will be persecuted.


Why not Christian’s Gentiles?

 

[JLB]

Yes it is the day of the Lord but I think it is also the day of Christ ......see 2 Thessalonians 2:

‘Agreed.

 

[JLB]

The believing remnant of Israel are the ones persecuted not the body of Christ

Right

Yes it is the day of the Lord but I think it is also the day of Christ ......see 2 Thessalonians 2:

Right

‘So we are in agreement, the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


As we see the resurrection and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord.

 

[Doug]

So you believe Christian Jews will be persecuted.


Why not Christian’s Gentiles?

The Jews who believed Jesus was the Son of God their Messiah and keep the commandments in the tribulation will be persecuted by the Antichrist

 

[JLB]

The Jews who believed Jesus was the Son of God their Messiah and keep the commandments in the tribulation will be persecuted by the Antichrist

So you believe Christian Jews will be persecuted during the tribulation?


Why not Gentile Christians?

 

[Doug]

‘Agreed.

I think the day of Christ specifies his role and activities at his coming such as the route of his return beginning at the valley of Megiddo/Armageddon and the destruction of the Antichrist and Satan

 

[Doug]

‘So we are in agreement, the coming of the Lord is after the tribulation.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


As we see the resurrection and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord.

The coming day of the Lord occurs at the end of the tribulation

1 Thessalonians 4:15 is the coming of the Lord to rapture the body of Christ and only the body of Christ

 

[JLB]

The coming day of the Lord occurs at the end of the tribulation

1 Thessalonians 4:15 is the coming of the Lord to rapture the body of Christ and only the body of Christ

There is only one coming of the Lord.

 

[MonoBiblical]

There is only one coming of the Lord.

Two comings? His birth, then his return, whatever you may believe.

 

[JLB]

Two comings? His birth, then his return, whatever you may believe.

There is only "more" coming of the Lord.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[MonoBiblical]

There is only "more" coming of the Lord.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

Are you unitarian?