8 days, the 8th day leading to a new beginning.

[PinSeeker]

Where does the Bible teach that Sunday is the 8th day of the week?

Nowhere, of course.

Where does it teach that Saturday is the 1st day of the week?

Nowhere, of course.

So, just generally speaking (to neither one of you in particular), how does one not understand the "eighth day" to be the first day of the new week? As we know, God is making all things new (Revelation 21:5). And that began when Jesus ~ Who Himself is Lord of the Sabbath ~ was born to Mary a bit over 2,000 years ago. When Jesus rose from the grave, the Sabbath became what is now called the Lord's Day, which is the day of the week of the Lord's resurrection... the first day of the new week.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davidpt]

Where does the Bible teach that Sunday is the 8th day of the week?

Exactly! Stop the nonsense.

Don't blame me if you can't comprehend the simplest of things, then charge with me spewing nonsense.

Sunday is the first day of the week. Yet the logic would be this since every week has 7 days and then a new week begins. For example, Sunday through Saturday, thus an entire week, thus 7 days. When the next week begins, it is always 8 days later, yet is the 1st day of the week again. Is one going to argue that from Sunday to Sunday again is not 8 days later?

 

[PinSeeker]

...nothing has changed about the Sabbath.

Disagree.

...Sunday simply represents a new beginning is all, and that it is the beginning of a new week.

"is all..." <chuckles> It is no trivial thing.

The beginning of any week is never the Sabbath, that's absurd, the end of the week is the Sabbath.

Was, not is. Was. God, as I said above, is making all things new. Christ Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and since His resurrection, the old Sabbath is now the Lord's day, Sunday, the first day of the new week. And in this way, it is a foretaste of... it points to... the day when God will finally make all things new, and we have the New Heaven and New Earth. All will finally be "made new" in the sense that it will be without sin, and heaven and earth will be one... restored to how God created it from the beginning (but was lost on that dreadful day when Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden tree in Genesis 3. On that day, paradise was lost. But there will be a day when Paradise is found.

And I'll say again here: God is making all things new. He is not making all new things. <smile>

Sunday, the 8th day, day 1 of a new week, if we apply that to Jesus' resurrection.

Right; it is what it is. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. And now, as I said, the Lord's Day is the first day of the new week.

Saturday, 7 days later, thus the 7th day, still equals the Sabbath...

<chuckles> Actually, that would be six days later, no? <smile> So then, seven days after the first day of the week is always the first day of the next/new week. I mean, that's just math... and counting...

Goodness gracious. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Davidpt]

Disagree.


"is all..." <chuckles> It is no trivial thing.


Was, not is. Was. God, as I said above, is making all things new. Christ Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and since His resurrection, the old Sabbath is now the Lord's day, Sunday, the first day of the new week. And in this way, it is a foretaste of... it points to... the day when God will finally make all things new, and we have the New Heaven and New Earth. All will finally be "made new" in the sense that it will be without sin, and heaven and earth will be one... restored to how God created it from the beginning (but was lost on that dreadful day when Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden tree in Genesis 3. On that day, paradise was lost. But there will be a day when Paradise is found.

And I'll say again here: God is making all things new. He is not making all new things. <smile>


Right; it is what it is. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. And now, as I said, the Lord's Day is the first day of the new week.


<chuckles> Actually, that would be six days later, no? <smile> So then, seven days after the first day of the week is always the first day of the next/new week. I mean, that's just math... and counting...

Goodness gracious. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

The point of the OP can be summed as such. With weeks in mind. There can not be a new beginning of anything unless 7 days have preceded it first. Which then means, if Jesus returns soon, it will have basically been 6k years from the fall of man to that of His 2nd coming. A beginning of a new week is always 8 days later, not 7 days later. 7 days later is the end of a week, not the beginning of a new one. Therefore, 1 more day, thus 1 more 1k years day, has to fulfilled after Christ comes before there can be a new beginning, thus before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled.

Amil would have us believe that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of the week. Therefore, Amils maybe need to invest in a calculator since they obviously can't do simple basic math in their heads, that simple math says 6 days do not make up a week, 7 days do. And that 8 does not come after 6, 7 does. And that 8 is always the beginning of a new week, and that 7 is always the end of a present week. That's been the cycle of a week since the beginning of time.

 

[Davy]

Nowhere, of course.


Nowhere, of course.

So, just generally speaking (to neither one of you in particular), how does one not understand the "eighth day" to be the first day of the new week? As we know, God is making all things new (Revelation 21:5). And that began when Jesus ~ Who Himself is Lord of the Sabbath ~ was born to Mary a bit over 2,000 years ago. When Jesus rose from the grave, the Sabbath became what is now called the Lord's Day, which is the day of the week of the Lord's resurrection... the first day of the new week.

Grace and peace to all.

Some folks treat Christ's future "thousand years" reign that begins at His future return as a 7th day, and then after the 1,000 years begins the new heavens and a new earth as the 8th day (new beginnings).

 

[PinSeeker]

The point of the OP can be summed as such. With weeks in mind. There can not be a new beginning of anything unless 7 days have preceded it first. Which then means, if Jesus returns soon, it will have basically been 6k years from the fall of man to that of His 2nd coming. A beginning of a new week is always 8 days later, not 7 days later. 7 days later is the end of a week, not the beginning of a new one. Therefore, 1 more day, thus 1 more 1k years day, has to fulfilled after Christ comes before there can be a new beginning, thus before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled.

Amil would have us believe that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of the week.

I love that GIF... <smile>

Therefore...

Therefore, what you're saying holds no water.

Amils maybe need to invest in a calculator since they obviously can't do simple basic math in their heads, that simple math says 6 days do not make up a week, 7 days do. And that 8 does not come after 6, 7 does. And that 8 is always the beginning of a new week, and that 7 is always the end of a present week. That's been the cycle of a week since the beginning of time.

Is this not what I just said, pretty much? It is, David. I'm glad we agree on this... <e> What I said was that the old Sabbath ~ the seventh day of the week, Saturday, the day God rested from His work of creation ~ has now been moved to the Lord's day ~ the day of the Lord of the Sabbath, the day of the Lord's resurrection, Sunday, the first day of the new week. How many days there are in a week has never been a question to any of us here (I hope), nor has the fact the Saturday is the last day of one week (the seventh of that week) and that Sunday is the first day of the new week (I hope). You were the one that introduced this "eighth day" stuff. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Some folks treat Christ's future "thousand years" reign that begins at His future return as a 7th day, and then after the 1,000 years begins the new heavens and a new earth as the 8th day (new beginnings).

Right, and they are wrong. <smile> That Christ's millennial reign is still in the future, and that the thousand years begins at His future return, and then... I think I understand you to be saying there is a 1,000-year separation between His return and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, which is incorrect... and maybe the concept of "a new earth," if by that what is meant is a different planet the one on which we live. But... it's okay. That they don't have their ordering of things and/or their eschatology just right is... okay. I do agree with the concept of the new beginning, though, and that of course then it will have no end.

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[rwb]

Nowhere, of course.


Nowhere, of course.

So, just generally speaking (to neither one of you in particular), how does one not understand the "eighth day" to be the first day of the new week? As we know, God is making all things new (Revelation 21:5). And that began when Jesus ~ Who Himself is Lord of the Sabbath ~ was born to Mary a bit over 2,000 years ago. When Jesus rose from the grave, the Sabbath became what is now called the Lord's Day, which is the day of the week of the Lord's resurrection... the first day of the new week.

Grace and peace to all.

Is the eighth day the first day of the new week, or is it the beginning of the new sabbath? When Christ arose from the tomb the sabbath of Old came to an end, and a new sabbath, belonging to Christ began.

Week in this verse is interpreted from the same Greek word σάββατον sábbaton, sab'-bat-on - interpreted "end of the sabbath". Why the translators translate the same Greek word as both sabbath and week is most likely due to bias.

Matthew 28:1 (KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Under the Old sabbath days the people of God were required to labor for six days and then enter into rest on the seventh day. So too under the Old sabbath days Christ was to fulfill all the Law required. His resurrection ushered in a new sabbath, not like that of Old that required man to be obedient to the Levitical Laws to enter into eternal rest in God. Under the new sabbath days man may enter into eternal rest in God through the obedience of Christ. The eighth day is not the beginning of a new week, rather it points us to the beginning of the new sabbath where whosoever believes on Christ shall have eternal rest through Him.

Hebrews 4:3-10 (KJV) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews 4:9 (KJV) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Rest -

Strong's Greek Dictionary
4520. σαββατισμός sabbatismos (sabbatismós)
Search for G4520 in KJVSL; in KJV; load in ESI.

σαββατισμός sabbatismós, sab-bat-is-mos'

from a derivative of G4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):—rest.

 

[PinSeeker]

Is the eighth day the first day of the new week, or is it the beginning of the new sabbath?

Um... yes. <smile> Which I... think... is what you are saying in the rest of this post.

• Old Testament Sabbath ~ Saturday, the seventh day of the week.
• New Testament Sabbath ~ the Lord's Day, the day of Christ's resurrection, Sunday, the first day of the new week.

Both of the above are ~ the first then and the second now ~ the weekly Sabbath that reminded them then and us now that they were, and we are not yet, home. And both of these point to the eternal Sabbath, when we will all be home, at rest from all our works. We will all certainly enter into His eternal rest, which will not be relegated to one day a week but be... eternal... which is to say it will have no end. <smile> And this is what the writer of Hebrews is saying.

Grace and peace to you, RWB.

 

[Davy]

Right, and they are wrong. <smile> That Christ's millennial reign is still in the future, and that the thousand years begins at His future return, and then... I think I understand you to be saying there is a 1,000-year separation between His return and the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth, which is incorrect... and maybe the concept of "a new earth," if by that what is meant is a different planet the one on which we live. But... it's okay. That they don't have their ordering of things and/or their eschatology just right is... okay. I do agree with the concept of the new beginning, though, and that of course then it will have no end.

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, which begins at His future 2nd coming, is meant literally... in my Bible.

And that is confirmed also in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Peter 3:8-9; Isaiah 24:21-23.

 

[PinSeeker]

Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, which begins at His future 2nd coming, is meant literally... in my Bible.

The thousand years is not future. Christ's return is, though, certainly... because the thousand years are not yet ended. Christ's return will be prompted by the end of the thousand years.

And that is confirmed also in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Peter 3:8-9; Isaiah 24:21-23.

The end will come, certainly. And the Lord will not delay in bringing this to be.

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, which begins at His future 2nd coming, is meant literally... in my Bible.

And that is confirmed also in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28;

Where is the thousand years referenced in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28? Paul references "the end" there when the kingdom is delivered by Jesus to the Father, not the beginning of Christ's reign, as you imagine.

1 Corinthians 5:5;

Nothing there about a future thousand years, that's for sure.

2 Peter 3:8-9;

Nothing there about a future thousand years. That passage has to do with the fact that no one can say the Lord is being slow to return since, from His eternal perspective, a day is no different than a thousand years.

Isaiah 24:21-23.

No reference to a future thousand years there, either. Your scriptural evidence that you use to support your view is VERY flimsy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The point of the OP can be summed as such. With weeks in mind. There can not be a new beginning of anything unless 7 days have preceded it first. Which then means, if Jesus returns soon, it will have basically been 6k years from the fall of man to that of His 2nd coming. A beginning of a new week is always 8 days later, not 7 days later. 7 days later is the end of a week, not the beginning of a new one. Therefore, 1 more day, thus 1 more 1k years day, has to fulfilled after Christ comes before there can be a new beginning, thus before 1 Corinthians 15:28 can be fulfilled.

None of this nonsense is actually taught in scripture anywhere. Does that matter to you or do you think it's okay to just make things up like this?

Amil would have us believe that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of the week.

Huh? What in the world are you talking about? The days of the week have absolutely nothing to do with whether Amil or Premil is true.

Therefore, Amils maybe need to invest in a calculator since they obviously can't do simple basic math in their heads, that simple math says 6 days do not make up a week, 7 days do.

What Amil said otherwise? Why do you waste your time with this ridiculous nonsense? Do you just have no interest in being taken seriously? You think this is all some kind of silly game or something?

And that 8 does not come after 6, 7 does.

What Amil believes that? Why do you think you can just misrepresent Amils all the time and think nothing of it? Don't you want to be a man of integrity? Why do you lie so much?

And that 8 is always the beginning of a new week, and that 7 is always the end of a present week. That's been the cycle of a week since the beginning of time.

LOL. What does any of this have to do with the Amil vs. Premil debate? Nothing. You have clearly run out of arguments and all you have left is ridiculous nonsense like this.

 

[Davy]

The thousand years is not future.

The Revelation 20 "thousand years" most definitely is... future, and only begins on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this world, and also is the day of Christ's 2nd coming (return).

We can be certain of this because of the following: the Revelation 20:4 verse is given in direct connection with the time of the "thousand years". And that verse points to events involving the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 13 that only happen at the "great tribulation" in the final generation on earth.

 

[PinSeeker]

The Revelation 20 "thousand years" most definitely is... future...

The remainder ~ the remaining portion ~ of it is, yes. <smile>

...and only begins...

Began quite some time ago... from our perspective anyway... <smile>

on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this world, and also is the day of Christ's 2nd coming (return).

Ah, the day of the Lord.... Well, I do agree that there will certainly be a day, a literal twenty-four hour period, in which He returns (although of course it won't take Him twenty-four hours or anywhere close to that for Him to descend... <chuckles> But "the day of the Lord" is used in different contexts in different places in the Bible. This is being discussed currently in another thread, the one you started regarding Zechariah 14. I'll just cut and paste my most recent comment in that thread here:

...regarding the day of the Lord ~ really just specifically 'day' ~ there are places in the bible where 'day' refers to a literal earth day of 24 hours, but there are also places where 'day' is meaning the portion of the twenty-four hour period in which the sun was up and it was light outside, and there are also places where 'day' is meaning a time period of unspecified length, sometimes spanning years or a generation, a season in that sense. The same is true even of 'year' and 'generation.' Context and discernment come into play, of course... <smile> At any rate, some believe that the day of the Lord will be a longer period of time than a single day (and there are divergent views of what will take place "in that day"...). And others believe the day of the Lord is a literal day and the event will be a very brief ~ if not instantaneous ~ thing... the return of Christ to finally redeem His faithful believers and execute the final Judgment. I say both are right, each in its own context.​

We can be certain of this...

So, because of what I said directly above, not so much, no. <smile> I mean we can be certain of it, but people can take it in... errant directions... and in that case are then certain of... things that are actually wrong... <smile>

...the Revelation 20:4 verse is given in direct connection with the time of the "thousand years".

There is much disagreement regarding the "thousand years" of Revelation 20, as we have extensively discussed... the actual length of it and when it actually is... its setting. Hey, I thought you were had me on 'ignore.' What happened to that? <LOL!>

And that verse points to events involving the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 13 that only happen at the "great tribulation" in the final generation on earth.

Hmmmm.... yes, the great tribulation... Well, generally speaking, same as directly above regarding the "thousand years"... <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you, Davy.

 

[Rockerduck]

The Revelation 20 "thousand years" most definitely is... future, and only begins on the "day of the Lord", which is the final day of this world, and also is the day of Christ's 2nd coming (return).

We can be certain of this because of the following: the Revelation 20:4 verse is given in direct connection with the time of the "thousand years". And that verse points to events involving the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 13 that only happen at the "great tribulation" in the final generation on earth.

The Thousand years is symbolism. All of Revelation is images and prophetic symbolism. Sometimes the symbolism is answered, like the seven stars and lampstands, being the 7 angels and 7 churches, but nothing else is unless it agrees with another scripture or is answered.

 

[PinSeeker]

The Thousand years is symbolism. All of Revelation is images and prophetic symbolism. Sometimes the symbolism is answered, like the seven stars and lampstands, being the 7 angels and 7 churches, but nothing else is unless it agrees with another scripture or is answered.

Right, but the "thousand years," God's millennium, is a real, literal time period. You agree; I'm not insinuating that you don't. The disagreement is regarding the nature of it and when it actually is... or occurs. And what takes place in it... <smile> Ohhhh, if people would just read it for what it is, though, right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Rockerduck.

 

[Rockerduck]

Right, but the "thousand years," God's millennium, is a real, literal time period. You agree; I'm not insinuating that you don't. The disagreement is regarding the nature of it and when it actually is... or occurs. And what takes place in it... <smile> Ohhhh, if people would just read it for what it is, though, right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Rockerduck.

Read it again. this time scratch off a thousand yrs and it reads " they lived and reigned with Christ' . Yes, for a time period beginning and ending. We don't know the start time or the finish time. We just know we will reign with Christ, because the Apostle Paul said so. 2 Timothy 2:12 - If we endure, we shall also reign with Him, if we deny Him, He also will deny us

 

[marks]

Don't blame me if you can't comprehend the simplest of things, then charge with me spewing nonsense.

Sunday is the first day of the week. Yet the logic would be this since every week has 7 days and then a new week begins. For example, Sunday through Saturday, thus an entire week, thus 7 days. When the next week begins, it is always 8 days later, yet is the 1st day of the week again. Is one going to argue that from Sunday to Sunday again is not 8 days later?

The rest of your theory aside, it's ridiculous to me that someone could not follow your logic that the first day of the week is the eighth day from the first day of the previous week. Why is that so hard?

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

Read it again. this time scratch off a thousand yrs and it reads " they lived and reigned with Christ' .

Many times in the Bible ~ and specifically here in Revelation 20 ~ things that either are presently happening or will at some point in the future happen... or both... are spoken of in the past tense. And specifically regarding John's Revelation, this is true. The thing to keep in mind in John's Revelation is that he is ~ and we are, by extension ~ being shown things as if they are have been completed... really in the same sense as... well, some time-travel movies... John's older self has come back in time to the time in which he was writing and speaking to him about what has happened, is occurring now, and will continue to occur as if it has already happened... and from the perspective of John's older self has. And we can put ourselves in John's shoes, even now. This is what John means when he calls himself "(our) brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus" (Revelation 1:9).

Yes, for a time period beginning and ending. We don't know the start time or the finish time.

Ah. We do know the start. <smile> With regard to Revelation 20, John tells us the start ~ symbolically ~ in Revelation 20:1-3. <smile>

We just know we will reign with Christ...

Right, but that's true now. As Paul says in Ephesians 2, "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." The fact that He is seated at the right hand of the Father is... a far, far greater thing than many Christians imagine. And, we who have been born again of the Spirit are seated with Him.

, because the Apostle Paul said so. 2 Timothy 2:12 - If we endure, we shall also reign with Him, if we deny Him, He also will deny us

Well, right, we are reigning with Him, just only (although it is no mere thing) in the Spirit right now, which is the same sense as He being with us now, even in this life, just as He said He would be in Matthew 28:20 ~ "...behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." One day, though... <smile> ...one great day, it will be in person... our faith will be sight.

Grace and peace to you, RD.