Right, so Luke records Jesus telling them to flee Jerusalem when the armies come against it and Rome actually destroys Jerusalem within 40 years and Rome isn’t what Luke was talking about? Humm really do you realize how ridiculous you sound ?
A future third temple requires a new prophet
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Luke referred to armies. Whose armies do you think they were?
There's no "AC". That's modernist revisionist Scofield futurist fantasy and fallacy, which rejects Jesus' words and warnings fulfilled in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
The Judaean Christians heeded Jesus' warnings in Matthew 24:15-16, and fled and escaped destruction.
Thankfully, not one of them was a Scofield futurist.
Explain what Scofield has to with any of the following below? Use Scofield as an argument against their views as well, in order to be fair about things, thus not cherry picking. BTW, some people that hold views similar to these early church fathers below, though they may have heard of Scofield doesn't mean they have read anything by Scofield, therefore, are not influenced by Scofield. Clearly, these early church fathers below never read anything by Scofield, thus were never influenced by Scofield, yet you use Scofield as an argument against any futurist view involving an AC and a temple. The point is, it doesn't matter if the futurist view is correct or if it isn't, what matters is, is that you are using Scofield as an argument against this view when the following below destroys your argument.
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several early Church Fathers, particularly Irenaeus and Hippolytus, wrote about a future Antichrist who would sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem in the last days
. They interpreted the prophecies of Daniel and Paul's Second Epistle to the Thessalonians literally.
Key Church Fathers and Their Views
Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD): Irenaeus explicitly stated that the temple in Jerusalem would be rebuilt, and the Antichrist would reign from it for a period of three and a half years. In his work Against Heresies, he wrote:
"The Temple shall be rebuilt in Jerusalem... and the Antichrist shall sit therein".
He linked Paul's description of the "man of lawlessness" to Daniel's prophecies, viewing the desecration of the temple as a future, literal event.
Hippolytus (c. 170–235 AD): A student of Irenaeus, Hippolytus expanded on this view in his treatise On Christ and Antichrist. He believed:
The Antichrist would be an apostate Jew from the tribe of Dan.
He would rebuild the temple in Jerusalem to deceive the Jewish people into believing he was the Messiah.
Hippolytus wrote: "And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews".
Tertullian (c. 160–220 AD): Tertullian also identified the "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 as the Antichrist, who would sit in the temple of God and declare himself to be God.
Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315–386 AD): Writing later in the 4th century, Cyril delivered catechetical lectures describing the Antichrist reigning as a world ruler for three and a half years and being destroyed after his short reign, supporting the idea of a physical temple where this would occur.
These early views generally held that the "temple of God" mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 referred to a literal, future Jewish temple, not the Christian Church, as some later interpretations would suggest
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Did Irenaeus et al see this?
- “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
- “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
- “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Not, the catching away of the church does not happen until after the anti-christ is revealed to the world according to God's Word:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
So let's not be deceived.
When the anti-chrsit is revealed to the world that is the start of the 7 year tribulation period with the first 3.5 years being relatively peaceful during which time the anti-christ deceives the major of people in the world in to following him including most who claim to be Christians who will take the mark of the beast and end up going to hell.
Apparently the Lord views taking the mark as a form of blaspheming the Holy Spirit since b y taking the mark a person is giving their body over to the devil when the Lord says our body belongs to Him along with our entire being (body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, so giving it to the devil is blaspheming the Holy Spirit)
Revelation 14:9-11
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If ANY MAN worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Davy
Well-Known Member
So only what YOU decide is to be taken literally in Christ's Olivet discourse? Sorry, doesn't work that way. That's why God provided two or more witnesses to establish every word in The Bible.
Matthew 24:29 is a DIRECT statement, NOT a metaphor, not an allegory nor expression. Jesus was speaking that LITERALLY.
Seems to me they will worship Satan, Dragon, Beast, and follow the false prophet, (antichrist(s)), as Christ will not be there.
Christ is in Heaven, and not going to be sitting there, but the Jews if such a thing happens, will believe he is christ. When the genuine Christ appears, all of them will burn in His wrath.
Mark 13:22
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
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Rebuilding an earthly 'temple' of God, if it happens, will be one of those lying wonders of Satan.
It will be for Beast worshippers, those who follow the Dragon, those who have Satan as their father.
They don't even know where Solomon's temple was, the Jews mistakenly worship at a wailing wall that was part of a Roman fortress.
The jews will never worship God in spirit and in truth, unless they are born again and believe in Christ.
Everything they say and do is a lie, for their father Satan is also a liar and the author of it, especially having to do with God and themselves, their religion.
It will be for Beast worshippers, those who follow the Dragon, those who have Satan as their father.
They don't even know where Solomon's temple was, the Jews mistakenly worship at a wailing wall that was part of a Roman fortress.
The jews will never worship God in spirit and in truth, unless they are born again and believe in Christ.
Everything they say and do is a lie, for their father Satan is also a liar and the author of it, especially having to do with God and themselves, their religion.
They have been talking about rebuilding a temple for decades now. Still hasn't happened, likely never will happen. But even if one did get rebuilt, what does that have anything to do with fulfilling prophecies in the Bible? There is nothing recorded in the Bible that remotely matches a literal temple getting rebuilt in the future, a literal AC literally sitting in it, then animal sacrificing resuming, then 3.5 years later this same AC that caused animal sacrificing to resume has a change of mind and decides to put them to a stop yet again. Which then equals animal sacrificing is stopped twice. The first time by Christ, the 2nd time by the AC. Totally preposterous. But not meaning the former, meaning the latter.
Maybe this AC shouldn't have allowed animal sacrificing to resume to begin with, if 3.5 years later he has them stopped again. How can any reasonable person buy into this nonsense? The keyword being 'reasonable', therefore, maybe these that buy into this nonsense are unreasonable instead? Maybe that explains some of it? BTW, I think there was a time in the past, years ago, where I bought into this nonsense for a spell. Except I turned out to not be an unreasonable person since I was able to abandon this view altogether eventually.
Bible Gateway passage: John 8:54-56 - New King James Version
Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham...
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [a]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
History - The Wailing Wall: A Roman Prank.
Jerusalem’s Greatest Architectural Prank
euronimus.substack.com
Jerusalem’s Greatest Architectural Prank
Let’s face it: history is written by the winners, but archaeology is often dug up by the stubborn. And nothing stokes stubbornness like a 2,000-year-old game of “Who Owns This Rock?” For centuries, the Wailing Wall has been venerated as the last remnant of Judaism’s Second Temple. But what if it’s actually the last standing bar tab from Herod’s Roman buddies? Enter Fort Antonia, the colossal Roman fortress that, according to some heretical scholars, is the so-called “Temple Mount.” And if they’re right, then the Wailing Wall isn’t Jewish at all. It’s Roman. Cue the historical outrage.Fort Antonia: Rome’s Middle East Timeshare
Herod the Great, that sycophantic client king of Rome, didn’t just build temples, he built a Roman military Walmart. Fort Antonia, named after his drinking pal Mark Antony, wasn’t some dinky castle. Josephus, the ancient equivalent of a war correspondent with a flair for drama, described it as a 40-acre monstrosity with 60-foot walls, four towers (one 105 feet tall), and enough amenities to make a legionnaire forget he was stationed in the desert. It had baths, barracks, and even “slippery tiles” to keep rebellious locals from scaling the walls. Sounds more like a Vegas resort than a temple annex.
Yet modern archaeologists insist on shrinking Antonia down to a footnote, cramming it into a corner of the Temple Mount like an unwanted in-law. Why? Because tradition dies harder than a gladiator in the Colosseum.
Hat tip to Bob Ellsworth for the diagram.
The Wailing Wall: A Roman Retaining Wall?
Here’s the kicker: the Wailing Wall’s masonry matches Roman construction, not Jewish. The massive ashlars, the precision cuts, the sheer scale, it’s textbook Roman military engineering. Even the layout of the Haram es-Sharif (the “Temple Mount”) mirrors standard Roman fortresses, like the one still standing in Sergiopolis, Syria. Coincidence? Or proof that Jerusalem’s holiest site was actually Rome’s local bad ass base?
And let’s talk about those aerial bridges. Josephus mentions two 600-foot walkways connecting Antonia to the Temple, convenient for quick troop deployments during Passover riots. But where are they now? Gone, like Pilate’s patience. Traditionalists claim the Jews destroyed Antonia during the siege of 70 CE, but Josephus hints it was just the bridges. The fortress itself? Probably repurposed by Titus’s boys as a victory lap.
Rome's cookie-cutter fortress blueprint - because when you're conquering the world, efficiency matters.
This illustration by Balage Balogh shows the large Fortress Antonia towering over the Second Temple in ancient Jerusalem. This layout supports the historical account by Josephus, who noted that the fortress blocked the northern view of the Temple, suggesting they were on different levels. The Birket Israel (formerly the Struthion Pool) is visible in the foreground.
The Case of the Missing Temple Stones
Jesus supposedly prophesied the Temple’s destruction, saying “not one stone [would] be left upon another.” Yet the Wailing Wall’s stones are very much stacked. Meanwhile, in the City of David, where alternative theorists place the real Temple, archaeologists haven’t found a single surviving temple stone. Curious. Unless, of course, the “Temple Mount” was always Antonia, and the real Temple was elsewhere, reduced to rubble as foretold.
Even the “place of trumpeting” stone, found near the Wailing Wall, doesn’t prove much. Romans loved repurposing local artifacts, ever seen a menorah on the Arch of Titus?
Above: Rome slapped down forts like this everywhere, Spain, Germany, even the Middle East. Sergiopolis in Syria? Still standing. Meanwhile, Jerusalem’s 'Temple Mount' looks suspiciously similar. Just saying.
History’s Best-Kept Secret (or Worst-Kept)
The Wailing Wall as Fort Antonia’s remnant isn’t just a fringe theory, it’s a middle finger to centuries of dogma. If true, it means Jerusalem’s most contested real estate isn’t a temple wall at all. It’s a Roman barracks.
So next time you see pilgrims weeping at the Wall, remember: they might be mourning the wrong ruin. And if you’re a Roman history buff, pour one out for Fort Antonia, the fortress Jerusalem forgot, but archaeology might just resurrect.
Primary References:
Hat tip to Bob Ellsworth for the diagram.
The Wailing Wall: A Roman Retaining Wall?
Here’s the kicker: the Wailing Wall’s masonry matches Roman construction, not Jewish. The massive ashlars, the precision cuts, the sheer scale, it’s textbook Roman military engineering. Even the layout of the Haram es-Sharif (the “Temple Mount”) mirrors standard Roman fortresses, like the one still standing in Sergiopolis, Syria. Coincidence? Or proof that Jerusalem’s holiest site was actually Rome’s local bad ass base?And let’s talk about those aerial bridges. Josephus mentions two 600-foot walkways connecting Antonia to the Temple, convenient for quick troop deployments during Passover riots. But where are they now? Gone, like Pilate’s patience. Traditionalists claim the Jews destroyed Antonia during the siege of 70 CE, but Josephus hints it was just the bridges. The fortress itself? Probably repurposed by Titus’s boys as a victory lap.
Rome's cookie-cutter fortress blueprint - because when you're conquering the world, efficiency matters.
This illustration by Balage Balogh shows the large Fortress Antonia towering over the Second Temple in ancient Jerusalem. This layout supports the historical account by Josephus, who noted that the fortress blocked the northern view of the Temple, suggesting they were on different levels. The Birket Israel (formerly the Struthion Pool) is visible in the foreground.
The Case of the Missing Temple Stones
Jesus supposedly prophesied the Temple’s destruction, saying “not one stone [would] be left upon another.” Yet the Wailing Wall’s stones are very much stacked. Meanwhile, in the City of David, where alternative theorists place the real Temple, archaeologists haven’t found a single surviving temple stone. Curious. Unless, of course, the “Temple Mount” was always Antonia, and the real Temple was elsewhere, reduced to rubble as foretold.Even the “place of trumpeting” stone, found near the Wailing Wall, doesn’t prove much. Romans loved repurposing local artifacts, ever seen a menorah on the Arch of Titus?
Above: Rome slapped down forts like this everywhere, Spain, Germany, even the Middle East. Sergiopolis in Syria? Still standing. Meanwhile, Jerusalem’s 'Temple Mount' looks suspiciously similar. Just saying.
History’s Best-Kept Secret (or Worst-Kept)
The Wailing Wall as Fort Antonia’s remnant isn’t just a fringe theory, it’s a middle finger to centuries of dogma. If true, it means Jerusalem’s most contested real estate isn’t a temple wall at all. It’s a Roman barracks.So next time you see pilgrims weeping at the Wall, remember: they might be mourning the wrong ruin. And if you’re a Roman history buff, pour one out for Fort Antonia, the fortress Jerusalem forgot, but archaeology might just resurrect.
Primary References:
- Josephus, Flavius – The Jewish War (Book 5, Chapter 5) – Describes Fort Antonia’s size, structure, and connection to the Temple.
- Josephus, Flavius – Antiquities of the Jews (Book 15, Chapter 11) – Details Herod’s construction projects, including Antonia.
- Popular Archaeology (2023) – Antonia: The Fortress Jerusalem Forgot – Argues for Fort Antonia’s dominance over the Temple Mount.
- Leen Ritmeyer (1992) – The Temple and the Rock – Challenges traditional Temple Mount placement; suggests Antonia’s remains are misidentified.
- Ernest L. Martin (2000) – The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot – Controversial thesis claiming the Temple was south of the Dome of the Rock, with the Haram es-Sharif being Antonia.
- Benjamin Mazar (1975) – The Mountain of the Lord – Excavations near the Southern Wall; notes Roman engineering in Herodian structures.
- Roman Military Architecture – Comparisons to forts like Castra Praetoria (Rome) and Sergiopolis (Syria).
- The "Place of Trumpeting" Stone – Discovered near the Wailing Wall, possibly repurposed.
- Titus’s Arch (Rome) – Depicts Temple artifacts, but no clear depiction of Antonia’s destruction.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Looks like you well know there is... Bible Scripture pointing to the future existence of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem, just by the fact of you laying out all that information above, that you don't believe. Curiouser and couriouser.
BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Don't listen to Davidpt on this matter about the future 3rd temple the orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem are getting ready to build in Jerusalem. God's Word reveals a standing JEWISH 3rd temple is required to fulfill several Bible prophecies for the end of this world just prior to Christ's future return...
1. the "abomination of desolation" idol we are told per Dan.9:27 will be setup at the temple in Jerusalem, per Daniel 11 also. Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. served as a TYPE for the placing of an abomination idol inside the 2nd temple at Jerusalem. I guess Davidpt forgot to tell you about that, huh?
2. in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus warned us about the coming of a singular false-Christ to Jerusalem whom some will say, "behold, He is in the secret chambers", and Jesus said do not believe it, meaning that will be a false one, and not Him (See Matt.24:26).
3. in 2 Thessalonians 2, Apostle Paul was warning about the SAME false-Christ that Jesus warned us about, and called that false one the "man of sin". Paul said he will come and sit in the "temple of God", meaning in a standing Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God.
4. Rev.17 reveals the coming of the beast king, the 7th one, which will be the final Antichrist at the end of this present world. The ten kings ("ten horns") of that Rev.17 chapter will give their power to that beast king, as he represents the "little horn" of the Daniel prophecy. That is the Daniel prophecy about the coming "little horn" that comes up among the "ten horns" of Rev.17. Another Daniel title for that false one is the "vile person" of Dan.11 which will be the one that will cause the "abomination of desolation" idol worship for the near future "great tribulation" time.
The false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" and their deceived followers do not... want us Christians to realize the above Scripture points for the end of this world. And God has given those false ones power to deceive all those who refuse to listen to Him in His Word.
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You are the one ignoring verses 29-31 because those events did not happen and did not happen to any of the disciples proving Preterism is a false doctrine. Humm really do you realize how ridiculous you sound ?
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John spoke of a future AC as a person who would come.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
John clearly teaches that there is a singular and future antichrist. This compliments the fact that scripture also speaks of a future singular man by other names and titles such as the man of sin, the false prophet, the beast, that Wicked, little horn etc.
Do you not live in the real world? Or do you live in fantasy land? It is now 2025. Literal temples where animal sacrificing resumes then is stopped 3.5 years later is not anything any normal person is worrying about happening in this day and age. I'm not saying none of the 70th week is still future. Of course it is, but only meaning the the second half after Christ is cut off in the middle of the 70th week 2000 years age. The remainder of the 70th week is involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for one. Where that is involving the 42 month reign of the beast. And that none of this is involving literal temples in Jerusalem where animal sacrificing allegedly resumes. Don't you even have any spiritual discernment at all?
John didn't teach that he only mentioned what people heard, he then corrected them.
You just completely ignored and side stepped my comment to make another comment, that is not debating. Can you attest address my post first?
Davy
Well-Known Member
What makes you think you even have the right... to ask me a stupid loaded question like the above? You are showing yourself more and more as an apostate away from the written Bible Scriptures.
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