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There was no tribulation against the saints. It was Romans punishing Jews. The real trib will be against Christians all over the Earth.
A future third temple requires a new prophet
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There was no tribulation against the saints. It was Romans punishing Jews. The real trib will be against Christians all over the Earth.
Most all Christians were converted jews in Jerusalem. They were warned by Christ's words to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. Jerusalem's defenders were all jews, many zealots. I doubt many Christians actually remained in Jerusalem. Many would have fled from Jewish persecutions of Christianized jews.
Jesus told his people to flee the whole region when the gentile Romans would come to capture and destroy the city and temple of the jews.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21 - 21st Century King James Version
And He looked up and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow casting therein two mites. And He said, "In truth I say unto you that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all. For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the...
20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them that are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let them that are in the midst of it depart out, and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Yes it was the Romans punishing the Jews for Gods purpose, but there was great tribulation on the saints in the first century that is still happening today world wide
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
That's just what you think.
That's like saying God doesn't mind that anti-christ deceiving the majority of the world's population so they go to hell.
I'm making a scenario its not Gods temple anymore.
Paul said that the man of sin would declare himself god of Gods temple. Paul also said many times that the temple of God is now the church, thus its not a literal temple but the beast demanding to be worshiped as god over the church.
This is the reason the saints are persecuted by the beast.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Just like most churches in the world today are not God's anymore, it still represents to the world what should be a place of God and it will be used to deceive the masses.
And yet, there will be a literal temple built, a literal man who is the anti-christ sitting in it declaring he is god to deceive the masses.
You gotta remember the devil uses all methods he can to deceive.
And, just so you know, God's temple will be present and in use during His 1000 Year Reign and it will be the True Temple of the Lord.
Only those not taken in the rapture which are either new converts who got saved after the rapture and/or those who refused to believe in the rapture and those who were left behind because they were backsliders not living for the Lord when the rapture took place.
Well I disagree as we have different views on the timing of the rapture, a future temple and a literal thousand years.
God doesn't need or require a future temple and sacrifices, He just wants us to have faith and trust in the finished work of Jesus. Let the message of the scriptures reveal the true meaning of the scriptures.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
God doesn't "need" mankind either, but He has something in place to fulfill prophecy
He says in His Word that the man of sin is going to sit in the temple of God proclaiming that he is god.
So hide and watch because this is what's going to happen as this coupled with the covenant the anti-christ makes with Israel is the starting point of the 7 year tribulation period that Christians will be here to see (happens before the rapture takes place.)
And God's Word says there will be a 1000 Year Reign of Christ after the great tribulation ends.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I well know that, I'm not ignorant of what brother Apostle Paul wrote in his Epistles.
But in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 Paul was pointing to the traditional stone temple in Jerusalem because his subject there is about the coming of the false-Messiah that Jesus warned us about with quoting from the Book of Daniel. So to be ignorant of the false-Messiah warning, which Paul gave elsewhere in his Epistles also, like 2 Corinthians 11 about the "another Jesus", is to disregard Paul's warning about those in Christ are supposed to remain "a chaste virgin" waiting for our True Husband to come, Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No temple built by unbelieving Jews in the future would ever be called "the temple of God" in scripture. The temple of God is always a temple that God Himself dwells in and He would never dwell in a temple made by Jews who reject His Son.
God will never dwell in any temple made with human hands again. We (the church) are the temple of God (2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:19-22).
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. Such a temple, if it was built, would certainly not be the temple of God. The temple of God is a temple that God dwells in. We (the church) are the temple of God and He dwells in us.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
And yet when they build this temple which is not God's temple and the anti-christ uses it to sit in it proclaiming to the world he is god.... the Lord is going to have a problem with that
Just like there are churches these days that teach false doctrine leading people astray and the Lord has a problem with it.
There won't be a future temple-built God didn't actually command anyone to build one
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're not addressing the point. Paul calls it "the temple of God" and the temple of God is always a temple that God dwells in. You are talking about some "temple which is not God's temple", which is not what Paul referred to in 2 Thess 2:4. He specifically referred to "the temple of God" there, not some "temple which is not God's temple". What does Paul say is the temple of God in other verses that he wrote? The church (2 Cor 6:16, Ephesians 2:19-22). So, you should try to interpret 2 Thessalonians 2 accordingly. He's not talking about some individual sitting in a literal physical temple. He's talking about sinful people generally who are in the world with the true temple of God (the church) claiming that they don't need God and thereby effectually claiming to be their own God. This would apply to those who Paul says will fall away before Christ returns as well.
Yes amen, why can't all Christians use the scriptures to reveal the scriptures?
Its not needed so God doesn't want it all we need to do is trust in the finished work of Jesus. Sin offering sacrifices would be a reject of what Jesus did and actually steer unbelieving Jews further away from Jesus.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That would be nice. Instead, many Christians are comfortable with interpreting a verse or passage in such a way that contradicts other scripture verses or passages. Of course, they don't acknowledge that they are doing that. Instead, they twist the other verses or passages that they are contradicting to fit their interpretations of other verses.
Absolutely.
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
While it's true the Lord did not commission a temple to be built, one is going to be built anyway
In Israel they are gearing up to do just that so none the less there IS going to be a temple built and the anti-christ will sit in it proclaiming he is god and most people in the world will believe him and follow him... straight to hell. Sadly this includes most people who claim to be Christians.
You folks need to remember that in the end times the Lord is allowing satan to rise in power and rule the earth in real time like he has never been allowed to do before. It's called the great tribulation, maybe you've heard of it?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So what? The point we're making is that it can't be "the temple of God" because the temple of God is one that God dwells in. Yet, for some reason, you are trying to relate some temple that would not be the temple of God to verses that refer to the temple of God. That makes no sense.
So what? It won't be the temple of God, so it can't relate to 2 Thessalonians 2:4 which specifically refers to the temple of God rather than some temple that is not the temple of God.
We don't deny that. Address our points instead of going on tangents. Address the fact that you are trying to make verses about the temple of God be about some temple that is not the temple of God instead.
The great tribulation has been happing since the days of the book of Acts and is still happening today.
God used Rome to destroy the temple for His purpose and He has allowed the Dome Of The Rock to seated on the same location for a reason. The reason is that the temple sin sacrifices were a rejection of Jesus and what He did, they became blasphemous.
Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
45 When Jesus entered the temple courts, he began to drive out those who were selling. 46 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be a house of prayer’[a]; but you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”
Matthew 23
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
If you see above Jesus went from "My house" to "your house". The temple is no more Gods house and it wasn't when Paul said the words "the temple of God".
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