A future third temple requires a new prophet

[Marty fox]

Oh well in that case reckon the devil will stand down then?

Uh, no he will not. They are going to build a temple and satan will use it to mock God and proclaim to the world he is god

The temple Paul talked about was the church not a literal temple

Even if a future temple will be built it won’t be Gods temple

 

[covenantee]

Oh that was nothing, wait till the Great Tribulation when so many Jews die it makes Hitler's extermination efforts look like child's play.

Hundreds of millions of non Jews gonna be dyin as well.

All that happens after the devil's boy sits in the new temple claiming to be God.

Paul is consistent in his identification of and distinction between the different temples.

His "naos" temples refer exclusively to NT believers; collectively, the NT Church.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

 

[HealthyShape]

Oh that was nothing, wait till the Great Tribulation when so many Jews die it makes Hitler's extermination efforts look like child's play.

Hundreds of millions of non Jews gonna be dyin as well.

All that happens after the devil's boy sits in the new temple claiming to be God.

So... you believe it will be built, but that Jews will be punished unimaginably for that?

If you believe both things, should not your life mission be warning them to not do it?

 

[Gottservant]

If Man creates a third temple, the third temple will cry out.

 

[Davy]

If a third temple needs to be built why did Christ speak of He and His body (Church) as the True Temple that He would build?

Apostle Paul was not speaking of the spiritual temple idea in 2 Thessalonians 2. He was speaking of a literal stone temple in Jerusalem, the traditional temple of the Jews.

Trying to claim Paul was pointing to the Church, the spiritual temple, is a false doctrine pushed mainly by those still following the old 16th century Reformation beliefs.

For the "abomination of desolation" prophecy that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel to be fulfilled at the end of this world like He showed in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, it requires... a standing Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem.

Today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, and in the world, that believe in God and the law of Moses still believe they are under the old covenant. One of their goals for returning back to Jerusalem and the holy land has always been to continue worship per that old covenant. And that required a literal stone temple and sacrifices. The prophecies in the Book of Daniel for the end of this world involve all that. So those trying to claim there won't be a 3rd Jewish temple built in Jerusalem in our near future are going against God's Will and His Word of Testimony.

 

[Davy]

The temple Paul talked about was the church not a literal temple

Even if a future temple will be built it won’t be Gods temple

Nope, Apostle Paul was pointing to a TRADITIONAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE in Jerusalem when he said the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:4.

With your agreeing to a FALSE DOCTRINE OF MEN that tries... to make what Paul said mean the Church of The Spiritual Temple, it means you have NO CLUE about the Bible prophecies involving the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem to place the "abomination of desolation" in a standing stone temple there that Lord Jesus warned us about for the END of this world. And doing what you are doing means YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST WHAT LORD JESUS HIMSELF SAID.

 

[covenantee]

Nope, Apostle Paul was pointing to a TRADITIONAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE in Jerusalem when he said the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:4.

Debunked.

Where is Paul's nonexistent "naos" stoner temple?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So... you believe it will be built, but that Jews will be punished unimaginably for that?

If you believe both things, should not your life mission be warning them to not do it?

Good luck warning them on anything and getting a favorable response.

So called "christians" (catholics and so called reformers) have murdered many Jews so most Jews don't trust Christians

Even if a future temple will be built it won’t be Gods temple

No one is saying it will be built by born again believers.

Never the less there will be a temple built by religious Jews and the anti-christ will sit in it mocking God and telling the world he IS God

Hide and watch, it's being planned right now

 

[Davy]

Debunked.

Where is Paul's nonexistent "naos" stoner temple?

Apostle Paul's literal stone "temple of God" of 2 Thess.2:4 is NOT DEBUNKED!

Here's a lesson brethren, on those who fall away to word fallacies in God's Word. That idea of word fallacy is about trying to hinge a doctrine on a single word in the Bible manuscripts. covenantee@ tries to do that with this subject of what Apostle Paul said in 2 Thess.2, but covenantee is just regurgitating what he heard from some deceived preacher, and obviously has yet to really understand about the Greek 'naos' rendered as "temple" in The New Testament...

That false doctrine covenantee is throwing up wrongly suggests that only the Greek word 'hieron' refers to a literal stone temple in Jerusalem; and that Greek 'naos' always refers to the idea of Paul's spiritual temple.

Matt 23:16
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, "Whosoever shall swear by the temple (Greek naos), it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!"
KJV

Was Lord Jesus pointing to the literal stone temple in Jerusalem with the above verse, or Paul's spiritual temple idea of Ephesians 2? The Greek word there above for "temple" is Greek naos.

Acts 25:8
8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple (Greek hieron), nor yet against Cæsar, have I offended any thing at all.
KJV

The above verse was said by Apostle Paul. Was he pointing to his spiritual temple idea there, or to the literal stone temple of the Jews in Jerusalem? That time, the Greek word for "temple" is hieron.


What this means that we cannot rely... on the usage of the Greek words for "temple" in The New Testament to reveal just what TYPE of temple subject is being spoken of. We instead MUST RELY ON THE CONTEXT of the verse. With Jesus' example above, it should be obvious He was pointing to a literal stone temple of the Jews in Jerusalem at His 1st coming. And with Paul's example, he also was pointing to the Jew's literal stone temple, but a different Greek word is used.

So how is one going to just rely on the Greek word 'naos' to tell them WHICH kind of temple a Scripture is pointing to? Yet that is the very error that those like covenantee has fallen into.

 

[Marty fox]

Nope, Apostle Paul was pointing to a TRADITIONAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE in Jerusalem when he said the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2:4.

With your agreeing to a FALSE DOCTRINE OF MEN that tries... to make what Paul said mean the Church of The Spiritual Temple, it means you have NO CLUE about the Bible prophecies involving the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem to place the "abomination of desolation" in a standing stone temple there that Lord Jesus warned us about for the END of this world. And doing what you are doing means YOU ARE BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST WHAT LORD JESUS HIMSELF SAID.

Paul repeatley called the church the temple of God.

 

[Marty fox]

Good luck warning them on anything and getting a favorable response.

So called "christians" (catholics and so called reformers) have murdered many Jews so most Jews don't trust Christians




No one is saying it will be built by born again believers.

Never the less there will be a temple built by religious Jews and the anti-christ will sit in it mocking God and telling the world he IS God

Hide and watch, it's being planned right now

I never mentioned anything about who builds it but it won't be Gods temple. If one was built God won't care who sits in it.

 

[Davidpt]

You know that the Bible shows that the great tribulation is on the church not the Jews right?

Revelation 7
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

I want to make sure that you are not contradicting yourself by asking this. Does this then mean you agree that Matthew 24:21 is great tribulation upon the church rather than involving 70 AD instead? After all, that verse also records 'great tribulation'. How is it reasonable that great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, happens more than one time rather than just one time? IOW, how can this be trumped--no, nor ever shall be?

 

[Marty fox]

I want to make sure that you are not contradicting yourself by asking this. Does this then mean you agree that Matthew 24:21 is great tribulation upon the church rather than involving 70 AD instead? After all, that verse also records 'great tribulation'. How is it reasonable that great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, happens more than one time rather than just one time? IOW, how can this be trumped--no, nor ever shall be?

No contradiction here.

There are many tribulations or even many great tribulations but only one "the great tribulation" the word "the" separates it puts it apart from any other tribulation.

The great tribulation started the day Stephen was martyred and is still going today, Revelation 11 proves it with the word "The". Today saints from every from every nation, tribe, people and language have been are and are still being killed.

Apart from Mathew chapter 24:9 when Jesus said, “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me" (which is apart of the great tribulation) the rest of it is actually the wrath of God poured out on apostate Israel in 70AD.

The great tribulation is on the church the wrath of God in on the unsaved.

 

[marks]

Hello,

I want to give another argument why a future literal third temple (at least to Gods pleasure) is not possible. The argument supposes that prophecy has ceased.

Revelation 11:3-7 KJV
3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5) And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6) These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

These will be two end-of-the-age prophets of God. And interestingly this directly follows the passage of measuring the temple.

Much love!

 

[JLB]

Hello,

I want to give another argument why a future literal third temple (at least to Gods pleasure) is not possible. The argument supposes that prophecy has ceased.

The argument is this:

God only accepts what he commands. But there is no commandment for the building of a future third temple. Therefore, there can not be a future third temple according to Gods will.

You either have to have a third temple which God does not accept (since he didn’t command it), or you have to have a future prophet, to whom God reveals the plan and time for the third temple. This is Gods pattern whenever he requires something to be done, so as to accept the thing that is being done.

So it was with the two fore-runners of the temple. At first God commanded Moses with the building of his tabernacle. Here is the text:

Moses said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, “This is the thing that the Lord has commanded. 5 Take from among you a contribution to the Lord. Whoever is of a generous heart, let him bring the Lord’s contribution: gold, silver, and bronze; 6 blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen; goats’ hair, 7 tanned rams’ skins, and goatskins; acacia wood, 8 oil for the light, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense, 9 and onyx stones and stones for setting, for the ephod and for the breastpiece.
10 “Let every skillful craftsman among you come and make all that the Lord has commanded: 11 the tabernacle, its tent and its covering, its hooks and its frames, its bars, its pillars, and its bases; 12 the ark with its poles, the mercy seat, and the veil of the screen; 13 the table with its poles and all its utensils, and the bread of the Presence; 14 the lampstand also for the light, with its utensils and its lamps, and the oil for the light; 15 and the altar of incense, with its poles, and the anointing oil and the fragrant incense, and the screen for the door, at the door of the tabernacle; 16 the altar of burnt offering, with its grating of bronze, its poles, and all its utensils, the basin and its stand; 17 the hangings of the court, its pillars and its bases, and the screen for the gate of the court; 18 the pegs of the tabernacle and the pegs of the court, and their cords; 19 the finely worked garments for ministering in the Holy Place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, for their service as priests.” (Exodus 35, 4-18)

Secondly, he commanded David that his son Solomon should build the temple. Here is the text:

And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever. 10 Be careful now, for the Lord has chosen you to build a house for the sanctuary; be strong and do it.”
11 Then David gave Solomon his son the plan of the vestibule of the temple, and of its houses, its treasuries, its upper rooms, and its inner chambers, and of the room for the mercy seat; 12 and the plan of all that he had in mind for the courts of the house of the Lord, all the surrounding chambers, the treasuries of the house of God, and the treasuries for dedicated gifts; 13 for the divisions of the priests and of the Levites, and all the work of the service in the house of the Lord; for all the vessels for the service in the house of the Lord, 14 the weight of gold for all golden vessels for each service, the weight of silver vessels for each service, 15 the weight of the golden lampstands and their lamps, the weight of gold for each lampstand and its lamps, the weight of silver for a lampstand and its lamps, according to the use of each lampstand in the service, 16 the weight of gold for each table for the showbread, the silver for the silver tables, 17 and pure gold for the forks, the basins and the cups; for the golden bowls and the weight of each; for the silver bowls and the weight of each; 18 for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. 19 “All this he made clear to me in writing from the hand of the Lord, all the work to be done according to the plan.” 20 Then David said to Solomon his son, “Be strong and courageous and do it. Do not be afraid and do not be dismayed, for the Lord God, even my God, is with you. He will not leave you or forsake you, until all the work for the service of the house of the Lord is finished. 21 And behold the divisions of the priests and the Levites for all the service of the house of God; and with you in all the work will be every willing man who has skill for any kind of service; also the officers and all the people will be wholly at your command.” (1 Chronicles 28, 9-21)

Thirdly, God commanded Cyrus to rebuild the destroyed temple. Here is the text:

Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. 3 Whoever is among you of all his people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and rebuild the house of the Lord, the God of Israel—he is the God who is in Jerusalem. 4 And let each survivor, in whatever place he sojourns, be assisted by the men of his place with silver and gold, with goods and with beasts, besides freewill offerings for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.” 5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem. 6 And all who were about them aided them with vessels of silver, with gold, with goods, with beasts, and with costly wares, besides all that was freely offered. 7 Cyrus the king also brought out the vessels of the house of the Lord that Nebuchadnezzar had carried away from Jerusalem and placed in the house of his gods. 8 Cyrus king of Persia brought these out in the charge of Mithredath the treasurer, who counted them out to Sheshbazzar the prince of Judah. 9 And this was the number of them: 30 basins of gold, 1,000 basins of silver, 29 censers, 10 30 bowls of gold, 410 bowls of silver, and 1,000 other vessels; 11 all the vessels of gold and of silver were 5,400. All these did Sheshbazzar bring up, when the exiles were brought up from Babylonia to Jerusalem. (Esra 1, 2-11)

So there you have it. God revealed to Moses the plan and time of the tabernacle in the wilderness, and He commanded him to build it. And God afterwards revealed to David the plan and time of the temple, which his son Solomon, according to Gods commandment, was to build. And finally he even commanded the pagan Cyrus to rebuild the destroyed temple.

So when, and to whom, will God reveal the time and plan of the third temple in Jerusalem? Whom will God command to build it? Do you really think there is going to stand up a prophet for secular Israel in the future? A prophet for a nation that doesn’t believe in Gods Messiah?

Because, building the temple of God without a command from the God of the temple, is a sin.

Kind regards and God bless, happy discussion!

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. Revelation 11:3-5

 

[ewq1938]

No contradiction here.

There are many tribulations or even many great tribulations but only one "the great tribulation" the word "the" separates it puts it apart from any other tribulation.

The great tribulation started the day Stephen was martyred and is still going today,

Christ said the GT would be shortened but you have it being lengthened by a HUGE amount. It hasn't even started yet but vould be close.

 

[Davidpt]

No contradiction here.

There are many tribulations or even many great tribulations but only one "the great tribulation" the word "the" separates it puts it apart from any other tribulation.

The great tribulation started the day Stephen was martyred and is still going today, Revelation 11 proves it with the word "The". Today saints from every from every nation, tribe, people and language have been are and are still being killed.

Apart from Mathew chapter 24:9 when Jesus said, “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me" (which is apart of the great tribulation) the rest of it is actually the wrath of God poured out on apostate Israel in 70AD.

The great tribulation is on the church the wrath of God in on the unsaved.

In your mind then, there were more souls lost in 70 AD than there are souls saved per what Revelation 7 records?

How many souls do historianians estimate were lost in 70 AD? Is it a number greater than the number of souls saved via great tribulation per Revelation 7?

A) Souls lost in 70 AD, the estimate is what?

B) Souls saved via great tribultion--a great multitude, which no man could number--the estimate is what?

Whichever number is greater, that is the one Matthew 24:21 is involving since that verse says that it can't be equaled nor surpassed in greatness. And that it is absurd that something local can surpass something global in greatness. That would be like arguing that a local flood surpasses a global flood(Noah's flood) in greatness. Yet no one in their right mind would argue that.

 

[Marty fox]

In your mind then, there were more souls lost in 70 AD than there are souls saved per what Revelation 7 records?

How many souls do historianians estimate were lost in 70 AD? Is it a number greater than the number of souls saved via great tribulation per Revelation 7?

A) Souls lost in 70 AD, the estimate is what?

B) Souls saved via great tribultion--a great multitude, which no man could number--the estimate is what?

Whichever number is greater, that is the one Matthew 24:21 is involving since that verse says that it can't be equaled nor surpassed in greatness. And that it is absurd that something local can surpass something global in greatness. That would be like arguing that a local flood surpasses a global flood(Noah's flood) in greatness. Yet no one in their right mind would argue that.

No thats not in my mind and we have been over this before the greater distress can be more that numbers of death.

It was the worst distress for the Jews ever because they would have realized that they rejected and killed their God and Messiah when Jerusalem was destroyed when Jesus said that it would happen. They would then know that God had abandoned them and they would lose their city and temple

The fact is that the verses I did provide showed exactly what the great tribulation is

 

[ewq1938]

It was the worst distress for the Jews ever because they would have realized that they rejected and killed their God and Messiah when Jerusalem was destroyed when Jesus said that it would happen.

Almost 40 years later? There is no evidence that they even knew who Jesus was. The GT is for Christians not Jews so AD 70 is nothing to us, and is mainly deception to mislead people from the true timing of the GT and who suffers tribulation.

 

[Marty fox]

Almost 40 years later? There is no evidence that they even knew who Jesus was. The GT is for Christians not Jews so AD 70 is nothing to us, and is mainly deception to mislead people from the true timing of the GT and who suffers tribulation.

I didn,t say that 70 AD was anything to do with the church besides the fact that the saints warned people and left before the siege began. Thats why people knew of Jesus and what He predicted, so yes the great tribulation is on the saints and the wrath of God was on apostate Israel