Is God Magnanimous? - (as opposed to tyrannical)

[shepherdsword]

The waffling is about whether our conscience is God-given or evil carnal knowledge.

Here you say the knowledge (God-given conscience) was forbidden. (by God?)

Here's your post #206
Where you claim that our God-given human conscience was a result of the Fall.

Our knowledge of right and wrong came from the fall. Before that Adam and Eve were innocent. with no knowledge of evil. That's what I have maintained. You keep merging human consciousness with self consciousness. God gave Adam a sentient conscious but knowledge of self came from the fall. What you are arrogantly using to judge God's punishment springs from your own carnal mind.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are not rightly dividing those scriptures which you are choosing to think are saying that all will be saved in the end........that is not what they mean. All who believe will be saved. Jesus is the saviour of all men.....

I didn't expect you to agree. You have your own agenda.

Everyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

 

[St. SteVen]

You keep merging human consciousness with self consciousness.

Nope.
Or God-given human conscience came from eating thereof.
The voice of the enemy that we allowed in as a result of eating thereof is "self consciousness". (lies)
"Who told you that you were naked?"

 

[Jack]

I didn't expect you to agree. You have your own agenda.

Everyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

STV just cited 7 Bible verses that he doesn't trust.

QUOTING STV: "No wonder I don't trust the Bible".

 

[shepherdsword]

And all those scriptures that speak of destruction, perdition, perishing, wrath, gehenna/hellfire, vengeance etc? Will you just keep on ignoring them? Don't we need the whole counsel of God to be able to rightly divide what is being conveyed? Some of those scriptures you have posted have been addressed with you in previous threads, but you keep ignoring what was explained about them.

Exactly, which is why I am not going to address each one again. If he didn't listen the first time, odds are, he won't the second time either. NONE of those verses indicate that God will restore to honor, the powers or darkness or those that have rejected Christ.

 

[St. SteVen]

NONE of those verses indicate that God will restore to honor, the powers or darkness or those that have rejected Christ.

Is that everyone? (nope)
You have billions unaccounted for.

Was it really God's plan for humankind to predestine a hand-full to life and incinerate the rest?

Would we honor a human that did that?

 

[shepherdsword]

Is that everyone? (nope)
You have billions unaccounted for.

God never promised everyone would be saved. That's what you THINK he said.

Was it really God's plan for humankind to predestine a hand-full to life and incinerate the rest?

Those that place faith in him are predestined to be conformed to his image and receive the adoption of sons. No one is predestined to be saved or to be damned.

Would we honor a human that did that?

Once again your carnal reasoning, stemming from the tree of knowledge, is deceiving you. A spiritual mind would never presume to judge God. However, you do for one simple reason....you do not know him. You reject the deity of Christ, the Trinity and other essential doctrines for the same reason.

 

[St. SteVen]

God never promised everyone would be saved. That's what you THINK he said.

Never?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.

If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.

The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.

Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.

But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).

Therefore, all means all in both instances.

 

[shepherdsword]

Never?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.

If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.

The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.

Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.

But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).

Therefore, all means all in both instances.

All will be resurrected for judgement. Death came by Adam and the resurrection by Jesus Christ Some will face the second death:

Rv 20:12-15
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Do you see any restoration or reconciliation here?

 

[St. SteVen]

All will be resurrected for judgement. Death came by Adam and the resurrection by Jesus Christ Some will face the second death:

Everything depends on the actions of the two Adams. It was never about us.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you see any restoration or reconciliation here?

I have been clear all along that the three views are contradictory.
But you choose one view and reject the others. Bible versus Bible.
I do that as well. I'm just showing you why.
I have no need to make your scriptures fit my views.

 

[shepherdsword]

I have been clear all along that the three views are contradictory.
But you choose one view and reject the others. Bible versus Bible.
I do that as well. I'm just showing you why.
I have no need to make your scriptures fit my views.

I choose a view that harmonizes the complete council of God. It is your errant view that results in pitting scripture against scripture.

 

[shepherdsword]

Everything depends on the actions of the two Adams. It was never about us.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

And that still doesn't that all men, as well as Lucifer and his minions, will be restored to glory. That is nonsense that only the most cursory and sophomoric study would allow.

 

[St. SteVen]

I choose a view that harmonizes the complete council of God. It is your errant view that results in pitting scripture against scripture.

What about the forever burning hell?
I thought you didn't believe in that.
Are you saying it is unbiblical?

The complete council of God includes all being saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Everything depends on the actions of the two Adams. It was never about us.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

And that still doesn't that all men, as well as Lucifer and his minions, will be restored to glory. That is nonsense that only the most cursory and sophomoric study would allow.

Tell it to the Apostle Paul. - LOL

 

[MonoBiblical]

God is a sadist; he loves to us see suffering and productive.

 

[shepherdsword]

What about the forever burning hell?
I thought you didn't believe in that.
Are you saying it is unbiblical?

I never said I didn't believe in ECT. I said I hope I am wrong about it. You see, it's fine details like this, that you consistently miss that leads to you misunderstanding others. You miss understanding the scriptures in the same way.

The complete council of God includes all being saved.

No, it doesn't.

 

[shepherdsword]

St. SteVen said:
Everything depends on the actions of the two Adams. It was never about us.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Tell it to the Apostle Paul. - LOL

I don't have to...he doesn't promote your error.

 

[Lizbeth]

Is that everyone? (nope)
You have billions unaccounted for.

Was it really God's plan for humankind to predestine a hand-full to life and incinerate the rest?

Would we honor a human that did that?

A human would have no right to do that but the Lord God Almighty who created us the whole world and us mere folks does have the right. Scripture explains your objection if you would only acknowledge that the Lord is God and far greater and above what and who He created:

Rom 9:13-24

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


HE DOESN'T OWE ETERNAL LIFE TO ANYONE. FALLEN MAN IS LIKE THE BEASTS THAT PERISH, AS THE SCRIPTURES SAY. Temporal, beastly, ruled by their base instincts and appetites. DOES GOD OWE OR GRANT ETERNAL LIFE TO ANIMALS? Yet a humble and contrite heart He will not despise and it may be that a humble soul hungry for the truth might yet seek and find Him.

Act 17:24-31

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[St. SteVen]

A human would have no right to do that but the Lord God Almighty who created us the whole world and us mere folks does have the right. Scripture explains your objection if you would only acknowledge that the Lord is God and far greater and above what and who He created:

Us "mere folks"?
Why do Christians minimize the importance of humankind. As if we are maggots under God's boot heel.
Acknowledge that "the Lord is God and far greater"? The god you describe is far less than "what" (again with the demeaning) he created.