How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[MonoBiblical]

Certainly not, it is accomplished through them by the power of God. Most people do not understand the role of angels. They appear on every page of Scripture, and when your eyes are opened to their involvement, your understanding of how God works will be forever changed.

It changes the meaning of the phrase, the word of God came someone. And the Word of Yahweh means actually the Word Yahweh himself came to talk to someone. I don't know if I completely agree with you though.

 

[shepherdsword]

But... maybe not true in the sense you intended. Every individual Christian does not have the fulness of God in them at every moment. But corporately - speaking of the church as the assembly - Christians do have the fulness of God in them.

This is also what the verses from Eph 3 you quoted say. You may want to check the Greek to verify, but... if the translator came from the place that I'm from... they would have translated like this:

Ephe. 3:14 For this reason I bend my knees to the Father, 15 to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name. 16 I pray that he might grant y'all through the abundance of his glory to be made mighty, in the inner man, with power through his spirit, 17 and that through your faith y'all might have Christ dwell in your hearts with love. May y'all be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that, with all the holy ones, y'all may be thoroughly able to comprehend fully what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ, which surpasses knowledge,...so that y'all might be filled with all the fulness that God gives.

(I think Tarsus might be somewhere near Dallas)

An excellent point that very few consider. If you go back to chapter 2 of Ephesians you see that we are all being built together as a temple of living stones for God to inhabit corporately. It's not only that Jesus indwells each of us individually, there is also a corporate manifestation that can only happen when we come together in unity. When Solomon's Temple was completed the glory that fell was so intense the priests could not even stand to minister:

1 Ki 8:10-11
And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of the Lord.

If that glory fell on a temple made from stone what will the glory be when the temple of living stones is completed and God's eternal purpose fulfilled? The manifold wisdom of God that cause all who behold it to fall on their face. A wisdom that he will make know by the church(called out ones)

Eph 3:10-11
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

So what will the glory be?

Nu 14:21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes the angels go up and down, correct. Genesis 28:12

You understand?

YES - i UNDERSTAND
But do You???

Genesis 28:12 = John 1:51

Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”

 

[MonoBiblical]

YES - i UNDERSTAND
But do You???

Genesis 28:12 = John 1:51

Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”

Yes, some more comprehension of Jacob's Ladder. While I [don't] believe the son is the ladder; this could be helpful.

Edit: sorry @David in NJ

 

[shepherdsword]

A marginal note means the scribe forgot something. It is usually red ink. 3 can be one group, just like English.

Very few consider the use of "echad" as it pertains to "oneness"


Two shall be "one"
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one(echad) flesh. (oneness of two from unity)


Dt 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one(echad) Lord:



We see from this usage that the Trinity can also be "echad" or "one" out of a plurality...Just as Adam and Eve were.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Very few consider the use of "echad" as it pertains to "oneness"


Two shall be "one"
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one(echad) flesh. (oneness of two from unity)
View attachment 74480

Dt 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one(echad) Lord:

View attachment 74482

We see from this usage that the Trinity can also be "echad" or "one" out of a plurality...Just as Adam and Eve were.

οὐκέτι εἰσὶν δύο ἀλλὰ μία σάρξ
Then not they are the two but unto the first the flesh. 'Tis about making babies.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Bible didn't say where the angles come from.

angles vs angels are they some sort of dimensional being?

 

[shepherdsword]

οὐκέτι εἰσὶν δύο ἀλλὰ μία σάρξ
Then not they are the two but unto the first the flesh. 'Tis about making babies.

Oneness out of plurality cannot be denied in the use of Echad. However, I see that you MUST take that position when denying the Trinity

 

[Hiddenthings]

It changes the meaning of the phrase, the word of God came someone. And the Word of Yahweh means actually the Word Yahweh himself came to talk to someone. I don't know if I completely agree with you though.

That's the direction of the relationship.

Hebrews picks up on this reality.

Hebrews 2:10 …it was fitting that he… should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.”

Hebrews 5:8–9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and having been made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation…”

John’s elevated view of Christ captures the very process by which Jesus was formed (in character) and became (in nature) the Logos, and it is impossible to separate his sufferings from that process.

Jesus was granted immortality and eternal life / nature as a reward for his obedience.

The Apostles understood this plainly but so few here do.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are two legitimate camps of thoughts when it comes to whether Yahweh or Yeshua created the world and whether or not Yeshua pre-existed before His birth.

For that reason I do not slam these views either way.

As far as I am concerned which means my opinion..... Yahweh it the creator God. And as far as the pre-existing Christ, I take Einsteins view of Gods and time.....to some extent they exist passed present and future. But still Yeshua did not exist in the past to extent that He could create.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Oneness out of plurality cannot be denied in the use of Echad. However, I see that you MUST take that position when denying the Trinity

It is only logical.

 

[MonoBiblical]

That's the direction of the relationship.

Hebrews picks up on this reality.

Hebrews 2:10 …it was fitting that he… should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.”

Hebrews 5:8–9 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and having been made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation…”

John’s elevated view of Christ captures the very process by which Jesus was formed (in character) and became (in nature) the Logos, and it is impossible to separate his sufferings from that process.

Jesus was granted immortality and eternal life / nature as a reward for his obedience.

The Apostles understood this plainly but so few here do.

I will post on the word LOGOS later. But I can't ignore the word perfect, and the supposed cognate τελειόω teleioō. It means in modern English to complete or finish. Perfect used to mean complete, if I am not mistaken.

 

[David in NJ]

Very few consider the use of "echad" as it pertains to "oneness"


Two shall be "one"
Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one(echad) flesh. (oneness of two from unity)
View attachment 74480

Dt 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one(echad) Lord:

View attachment 74482

We see from this usage that the Trinity can also be "echad" or "one" out of a plurality...Just as Adam and Eve were.

ABSOLUTELY = Elohim/Plural Said: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = 3

 

[David in NJ]

There are two legitimate camps of thoughts when it comes to whether Yahweh or Yeshua created the world and whether or not Yeshua pre-existed before His birth.

For that reason I do not slam these views either way.

As far as I am concerned which means my opinion..... Yahweh it the creator God. And as far as the pre-existing Christ, I take Einsteins view of Gods and time.....to some extent they exist passed present and future. But still Yeshua did not exist in the past to extent that He could create.

The Word that was Elohim that became flesh = Yeshua

YHWH came down from Above = Yeshua

 

[Hiddenthings]

I will post on the word LOGOS later. But I can't ignore the word perfect, and the supposed cognate τελειόω teleioō. It means in modern English to complete or finish. Perfect used to mean complete, if I am not mistaken.

View attachment 74483

The problem with this topic is that if Christ was ‘being perfected,’ then what exactly was imperfect in him? How can God learn obedience through suffering in order to be improved or made righteous?

The answer is He cannot!

 

[MonoBiblical]

The problem with this topic is that if Christ was ‘being perfected,’ then what exactly was imperfect in him? How can God learn obedience through suffering in order to be improved or made righteous?

The answer is He cannot!

He was completed by God, when he was dying and when died on the cross.

 

[Hiddenthings]

He was completed by God, when he was dying and when died on the cross.

You’re missing the point, God cannot be completed. If Jesus became the Logos through suffering and death, what was lacking in him that made this transformation necessary? You are told but I wonder if you have grasped its importance?

 

[MonoBiblical]

You’re missing the point, God cannot be completed. If Jesus became the Logos through suffering and death, what was lacking in him that made this transformation necessary? You are told but I wonder if you have grasped its importance?

He became a LOGOS when his mom named him. A LOGOS is not a force.

 

[Hiddenthings]

He became a LOGOS when his mom named him. A LOGOS is not a force.

Actually 83 times Jesus refers to himself as the Son of Man...maybe you need to think this through more.

Maybe these words will help you?

Matthew 3:15 "Let it be so now; it is proper for US to do this to fulfill all righteousness."

It was an incredible life and his daily agony should teach you how he became the Logos of God.

 

[shepherdsword]

It is only logical.

Nothing logical about it when you fail to consider this:

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: