8 days, the 8th day leading to a new beginning.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
You are not alone in your belief. But my citing Daniel was only for confirmation--not of what I believe--but what I know to be true by God.
National Israel, as you would apparently define it, did not exist, and wouldn’t for another 2000 years or so, when Paul was writing this personal letter to the Roman Christians. Now if you had meant Israel as Paul himself defines it, then I would agree. But when Paul speaks of God’s Israel and who the true Jews that make up God’s Israel are, he’s not talking about a nation-state or geopolitical entity, or even a single ethnic people group. And that’s the point you’re apparently missing or avoiding.
<chuckles> No, absolutely not. Again, there is a partial hardening now on Israel, and that will remain the case until the fullness of the Gentiles (the ones who are or will be called by God) are brought into God’s Israel. Then this “partial hardening” will be removed and the rest off the ethnic Jews who will be called by God into God’s Israel. In this way, then, ALL GOD’S ISRAEL will be saved.
It does. Not all Gentiles, but only the ones called by God, which is true of ethnic Jews also.
We are in the period of tribulation now. Jesus said so. <smile> “I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world” (John 16:33). James recalls and reiterates this, saying, “Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing” (James 1:1-4). But I do agree that when this time ends, all that will be saved… of any ethnicity… will then have been saved. When all whom God is going to call unto Himself are called and saved, this is what will bring this time of tribulation to an end… and prompt Jesus’s return.
Grace and peace to you!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The answer is a bit of a riddle, but is here:
The eighth "time" referred to as prophecy made manifest in the time of Noah, was a foreshadow of "after the flood." Prophetically referring to the flood "not by water" but by the outpouring of God's spirit upon all flesh--which is all seven days foretold in the creation story of all of time from the beginning to the end. And that eighth time "is of the seven."
RWB, God is making all things new (Revelation 21:5), not “making new things.” So yes, it will be a “new earth”… in the sense of being renewed… restored… to perfection and without sin or death, but this time forevermore.
Now, regarding God’s Kingdom, it’s here now… Jesus said so several times… but not yet in its fullness. But it will certainly be. Heaven and earth will be one. <smile>
Grace and peace!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Foundation = Noah/Salvation from Wrath and a New Beginning = 8
Foundation = the Number 8 in Scripture is denoted by GOD as 'New Beginnings' = "on the 8th day circumcision
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Another Premil invention because they have zero corroboration for their opinion of Revelation 20. Talk about twisting Scripture.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You'll have to be more specific???
I don't see where Paul ever says that when the last Gentile is saved the blindness shall be lifted??? That's called reading your doctrine into the passage, rather than allowing the passage to speak truth.
Yes, the Kingdom of God is here now! Not physically, which shall never be on this earth, but spiritually His Kingdom is within believers!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This STRAIGHFORWARD and SIMPLE sentence
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
a.) mystery
b.) Israel is in partial blindness
c.) UNTIL
d.) fulness of Gentiles comes in
Ah, well… this is not a direct answer to your question, but it should be more than sufficient for a person of your great intelligence… “Jesus answered (Nicodemus), ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.’ “
Grace and peace to you, David.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
just checking in my Brother = and Thank You
Yes and thank you AGAIN for "grace and peace to you" AND same Blessing be upon you and all who call upon the Name above all names
the LORD Jesus Christ
Right,but not yet in its fullness, as I said above. But it will be.
Not fully yet, but it is. I’m not sure why many have such a hard time with the idea that the spiritual is manifesting itself fully even in all that is physical. That’s just puzzling to me. But, it is what it is, and I say that with regard to both things in addressing here. On this earth.
It will. God is making all things new. One great day they will be, and then forevermore.
Ah, well yes, and being made manifest in them. Jesus did talk about being able, if and when he or she is born again of the Spirit, to see the Kingdom..
Grace and peace to you.
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- Jul 11, 2015
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Ok.
1. Where in the Bible do you consider definitely corroborate the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
2. Where in the Bible does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
3. Where in the Bible do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
4. Where in the Bible does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?
And? That does not suggest after that is over then there is going to be a time of Jewish salvation. That occurs as the Gentiles come in. The sign of the end is the nations will all hear, then comes the end.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm not conceited with Biblical matters when I'm shown I've missed something or am proven wrong. That's not the time to play, 'you win this time, I'll win next time.' This isn't a game of politics. In this matter we are discussing, I am concerned for your soul, and that's it. I'm not looking for any other thing, not to pump myself up, not to try and be a know it all, etc.
If there exists only one verse that counters that idea that Jesus is now reigning from the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven, then it means you have missed something in God's written Word...
Heb 10:12-13
12 But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
KJV
If that term "expecting" hadn't been there in that verse, one could agree more with your perspective on Christ's reign. But the presence of that word shows Christ's reign must include over ALL nations, and not just the Christian nations. No one can even claim that He is now ruling over the 'unbelieving' Jews! and that's a big dent in the theory of men you are following.
Rev 19:14-16
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
KJV
In Revelation 2, Jesus promised His elect they would reign with Him over the nations with that "rod of iron". Like the question @Davidpt brought up, are we as Christians now reigning over nations like North Korea; or over Red China, Communist Russia, Cuba, Iran, Syria, etc.? The answer of course is a big fat NO. So the "rod of iron" prophecy is a huge tell-tell sign, unless you think that "rod of iron" is meant for Christians, which would be way in outer-space speculation, and an idea not written in God's Word at all.
That's trying to use a blanket idea of God's Righteousness over specific Bible prophecies that He has given us to be watching, so we won't be deceived. Lord Jesus' main warning to us about the end of this world is to not let any man deceive us, and He gave other Signs of the end too marking events for the end with that. But some denominations reject those prophecies and Signs about the end He gave His Church, and the whole reason He gave us that was so we would not be deceived at the end of this world leading up to His future return. I speak of Christ's Olivet discourse. They happen to also be the Signs of the Seals of Revelation 6. So we should just trust God, and let Him protect us from deception?
Recall the story about the guy on his roof top in a flood who was offered rescue two times, but just told them, "God is in control, I believe in Him, He will save me." When the flood overflows his roof the guy drowns, and in heaven he asks God why He didn't save him? And God says, "well I sent you a boat, and a helicopter."
You should wake up to the Biblical fact that God is allowing... these events for the end by Satan to happen. God Himself has ordained it to happen. Why?, is what you should be asking yourself. Even with the symbolic locust army of the Book of Joel which attacks God's people at the end of this world per Revelation 9, God calls them, "My great army I sent among you."
Joel 2:23-25
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
KJV
Uh oh, trying to apply that absolutist approach with questioning what our Heavenly Father is doing IF... He is still allowing Satan to work evil on the earth today, is in the realm of tempting our Heavenly Father as being unrighteous. That can never be. That's your flesh thinking by you saying that.
You apparently have not yet come to an understanding of God's overall Plan of Salvation with how it also involves a negative side, which is where He uses Satan and his host. Do you recall Paul in Romans 9 where he said God hardened the heart of Pharaoh against the children of Israel in Egypt so God could show His Glory? Did you miss the Old Testament Scripture where God allowed evil spirits to go tempt Abimelech and king Saul...
Judg 9:22-23
22 When Abimelech had reigned three years over Israel,
23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
KJV
1 Sam 16:14
14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
KJV
1 Kings 22:20-23
20 And the LORD said, "Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?" And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, "Wherewith?" And he said, "I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets." And He said, "Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so."
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
KJV
There's many more OT Scripture evidence of how God uses... evil for His Own Purpose of His Plan for this present world. He can do that, simply because Satan is who originally rebelled against Him in wanting to be God. So when Satan fell, God ended that time of old, and brought this present 2nd world earth age to allow Satan to work the negative side, like allowing The Son of God Jesus Christ to be crucified, in order to offer those born in the flesh concluded under sin His Salvation through His Son. Thus God uses evil for this present world, and allows Satan and his host to do so also, all in working towards His ultimate Plan of Salvation. And God is not evil by doing so. Satan is who started the concept of evil, not God. In the Ezekiel 28 parable about Satan using the "king of Tyrus" as a type for Satan, God showed that He originally created Satan perfect in his ways, and that Satan originally followed and worshiped God in the beginning before he rebelled.
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